schaeferboy06 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Also I believe the score between Stokes and Schaeffer before the fall was 15-5 Stokes. That is also one of those close ones too though, huh? That score was like that because SCHAEFER kept trying to headlock and missed everytime, its not like Stokes took him down at will Why would Stokes have any need to shoot if Schaefer was missing so badly? If a wrestler is willing to put himself in a bad position the best strategy is to do nothing and let him. I'm just saying that since everyone is saying cathedral would beat perry again thats a whole different match if schaefer doesnt attempt to throw any headlocks. I also believe chris schaefer would pin buchannan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I wonder what redtights's crystal ball shows for next year. Things were such a foregone conclusion for him he must be related to Nostradomus. And I must not be a wrestling fan because I sure didn't know the winner was going to come out of the top bracket. I thought CP probably was the favorite but the closeness of the scores showed almost anything could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTights7 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 How would Schafer pin him considering they are 1-1? I think a dec is the most at 215. Just based on facts at. Yes it would be a different match had he not tried to throw so many headlocks. However, Stokes has pinned him and beat the CP HWT who also pinned him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Using the transitive property of wrestling (which sometimes works) I could say that since Chris Schaefer beat Antonio Halbert (New Palestine) and Halbert pinned Buchanan, then it is certainly well within the range of possibilities to think that Schaefer could pin Buchanan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmeat1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Using the transitive property of wrestling (which sometimes works) I could say that since Chris Schaefer beat Antonio Halbert (New Palestine) and Halbert pinned Buchanan, then it is certainly well within the range of possibilities to think that Schaefer could pin Buchanan. Come on that is a bit of a stretch isn't it. You can't use mathematical properties in wrestling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schaeferboy06 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well if you were at the cathedral perry meet, you would have noticed that he rode him out for a period maybe longer and turned him. Also buchannan was stalling the whole match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Why would that be a stretch? Do you mean to say that if you beat wrestler A, then wrestler A pins me, then you wouldn't think that you should pin me? If you don't think that then you are just not being honest with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmeat1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Why would that be a stretch? Do you mean to say that if you beat wrestler A, then wrestler A pins me, then you wouldn't think that you should pin me? If you don't think that then you are just not being honest with yourself. It doesnt work that way, you know it and I know it. Tasseff beat mcginley twice and he got beat by Keon. However gavin beat Keon in the semis. It is all about matchups. This isn't as cut and dry as algebra, there are no algorithems in wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 It doesn't always work that way. In the example you cite, it doesn't work. But lets say Jared McKinley beats Brian Harvey and Harvey has pinned someone from Manual. Would you then say thay McKinley would not be expected to pin the wrestler from Manual? Perhaps if you had read my post when I first introduced the idea, I said that the transitive property of wrestling sometimes works. You don't seem to want to even consider the possibility of anything other than your desired outcome to be possible. If there is no validity to this concept, then why is it the 2nd criteria used in seeding (head to head being first)? In your mind, if Cathedral wrestled Perry Meridian 1000 times, Cathedral would win 1000 times. There is no room for even the slightest possibility that Perry Meridian could defeat your beloved Irish. You stick with that thought and we will just go hang up our new runner-up trophy. Oh, and the spelling is algorithm (no e). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Easy, Thornton. A Runner-up Trophy is the equivalent of sandpaper for championship programs. We have 3 of them ourselves and they are prominently displayed face up on top of the lockers in our wrestling room/bus garage with all the other meaningless City Championship/regular season tournament trophies. The State Crown is all that matters. Maybe that is egomaniacal, but at Cathedral, only championships count. We have too many other damn sports at the school to contend and compete with to gratify our self esteem with 2nds and 3rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmeat1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 It doesn't always work that way. In the example you cite, it doesn't work. But lets say Jared McKinley beats Brian Harvey and Harvey has pinned someone from Manual. Would you then say thay McKinley would not be expected to pin the wrestler from Manual? Perhaps if you had read my post when I first introduced the idea, I said that the transitive property of wrestling sometimes works. You don't seem to want to even consider the possibility of anything other than your desired outcome to be possible. If there is no validity to this concept, then why is it the 2nd criteria used in seeding (head to head being first)? In your mind, if Cathedral wrestled Perry Meridian 1000 times, Cathedral would win 1000 times. There is no room for even the slightest possibility that Perry Meridian could defeat your beloved Irish. You stick with that thought and we will just go hang up our new runner-up trophy. Oh, and the spelling is algorithm (no e). Ok your right, the transitive property is more likely to work when you have 2 high class teams and one middle tier to low tier team (Cath, PM, Man). Go hang up your trophy, you earned it blah blah blah. Oh, and thanks for getting your dictionary out and telling me how to spell algorithms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If you ain't first, your last. -Words from the great mouth of Ricky Bobby ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Dictionary not required. As for where to display trophies...we at Perry Meridian are proud of the accomplishments of our state caliber athletes. We are not the powerhouse that mighty Cathedral is. We don't even have sports like men's volleyball, hockey and lacrosse. We are just a small 5a (compared to the BDs of the state) public high school without the history and tradition of Cathedral. We don't have multiple state titles in multiple sports. We don't have olympians who have walked our halls. The only state titles we have ever won have been in girls sports (3 in gymnastics and 1 in track). We made 1 final 4 in football, have 1 runner up in baseball and this was our 4th runner up in wrestling. So if you compare our meager accomplishments by Cathedral standards, we will come up rather lacking. But if you judge both wrestling programs during the team state era, I dare say we at least hold our own and probably even surpass what Cathedral has done. I agree that winning a state championship is the ultimate goal, but since we didn't accomplish that goal doesn't mean we are ashamed of the runner-up award. You are an elite private school with all the possible benefits that come with that status. Perhaps a bit of humility might also be in order and maybe even recognition that a public school is just as good as you are, at least when it comes to wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schaeferboy06 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Easy, Thornton. A Runner-up Trophy is the equivalent of sandpaper for championship programs. We have 3 of them ourselves and they are prominently displayed face up on top of the lockers in our wrestling room/bus garage with all the other meaningless City Championship/regular season tournament trophies. The State Crown is all that matters. Maybe that is egomaniacal, but at Cathedral, only championships count. We have too many other damn sports at the school to contend and compete with to gratify our self esteem with 2nds and 3rds. conceited are we? Sorry no one in the state is as great as the all mighty Cathedral, maybe one day the rest of the Indiana will compete on the same level as Cathedral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmeat1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Easy, Thornton. A Runner-up Trophy is the equivalent of sandpaper for championship programs. We have 3 of them ourselves and they are prominently displayed face up on top of the lockers in our wrestling room/bus garage with all the other meaningless City Championship/regular season tournament trophies. The State Crown is all that matters. Maybe that is egomaniacal, but at Cathedral, only championships count. We have too many other damn sports at the school to contend and compete with to gratify our self esteem with 2nds and 3rds. conceited are we? Sorry no one in the state is as great as the all mighty Cathedral, maybe one day the rest of the Indiana will compete on the same level as Cathedral. Don't worry boyo, you might get there one day. Maybe there will be another set of triplets that you can steal from the poor IPS schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Do you really want to get into a "recruiting" debate? The Dibberns moved and were actually residents in Perry Township. Could you enlighten us all as to where the boundries of Cathedral's district lie? Also, I checked with Coach Schoettle, who wrestled at Cathedral and he said the Irish were runners-up only twice. So I checked the IHSAA website and he was correct. Cathedral finished 2nd in 1986 and 1988. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle4awin Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thornton, You do realize that you are debating with what I believe is a high school student who probably is not even a part of the Cathedral Wrestling team. With that in mind, I think any further debate on your part is just adding fuel to the fire. The Cathedral Wrestlers as well as the Perry Meridian Wrestlers both had fine seasons and I do not think that anyone should get on this board and make light of what either team accomplished. Yes, they both came up a little short on what they would have liked, but both programs are producing some high caliber wrestlers. Can we please move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yes, I do realize that I am probably dealing with a student and as a professional educator, I try to find teachable moments even outside of the classroom. I have attempted, to no avail, to demonstrate the possibility of Perry Meridian defeating Cathedral. My best guess is that Cathedral is a 60/40 favorite. But we definitely were no easy mark. I have had nothing but the utmost respect for Coach McGinley and everything that the Cathedral wrestling program has accomplished. I will even go so far as to say that we fully expected to meet Cathedral in the finals. With the changes they made and with the loss of Paul Beck for Mishawaka, we considered Cathedral the favorite (although we were prepared for all teams that we could possibly face). I know we don't need any recognition from the rank and file at Cathedral, but would it diminish their season to admit they we were pretty good, too? I know it doesn't tarnish us one bit the acknowledge Cathedral's stature as one of the elites in Indiana wrestling. It would just be gratifying to see respect as a two-way street. Thank you for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmeat1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Do you really want to get into a "recruiting" debate? The Dibberns moved and were actually residents in Perry Township. Could you enlighten us all as to where the boundries of Cathedral's district lie? Also, I checked with Coach Schoettle, who wrestled at Cathedral and he said the Irish were runners-up only twice. So I checked the IHSAA website and he was correct. Cathedral finished 2nd in 1986 and 1988. Well what were there benefits of being a private school in your post. I got the feeling that you were trying to subtly talk about Cathedral recruiting. Correct me if I am wrong, they enrolled in school before they actually moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestling23 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 This is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmeat1 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 This is pointless You, my friend are right, it is pointless. I am done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Only because you asked me to...I will correct you because you are wrong. The Dibbern family moved into Perry Township before they enrolled. That is one of those pesky rules that the public schools must follow...A student can not enroll at Perry Meridian if he does not live in the Perry Meridian district of Perry Township. The most obvious benefit to a private school (as far as athletic advantages go) is that students are not limited by geography. Cathedral students don't even have to live in Marion County to attend Cathedral. This is not an indictment of the private school system, just a statement of fact. I'm sure that you can see the advantages of having a larger pool of prospective athletes from which to choose. As far as academics go, Cathedral can be much more selective about whom they choose to admit. Discipline is also not as big an issue as a private school can simply rid themselves of problem students. And guess where those students wind up. Once again, I don't have a problem with how Cathedral, Roncalli or any other private or parochial school is organized. I am simply saying that there are some distinct advantages. I also must agree that this horse is dead and has been beaten enough. Best of luck to the Irish in the off season and we'll see you again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Great job to both programs, they are going to be contenders and battle for years to come. With the addition of coach ,Wright he is an animal, look what Warren let slip away. I think in high school a kid should be able to choose what school he or she wants to attend as long as they can get there. For instance I own a house and raised my kids in a house but it is in IPS, I do not want my childern to attend this school. So I had to move cause I want better for my kids. Needless to say my house I own has sent empty for two years and I have to pay an outrageous house payment. If I can't make it my kids go back to IPS all because of someones finances. I don't think thats fair to the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spladdelbait Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I see that we can't even offer congratulations to a fine team on a fine performance in one of the toughest events in the young men's lives to this point without people using it for their own purposes. Rather embarrassing to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Great job to all can you read! Cathedral is a great team Coach Wright is one of my favorite coaches in the state ,just speaking on previos post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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