beachbum21

I never said he did not deserve the title on Saturday. He must have looked and wrestled great. But he did not have to beat the same kid that beat him the week before, and that kid did not get a fair chance to compete. Like I said, this lame attempt by the IHSAA is feeble at best to try and salavage an un-salvageable situation. I was just throwing out an option that might better reflect an outcome from what "could have been"..... Like I said in my post, there may not be a fair solution and this MAY not be a good idea.

To IHSAA, Thank you for the BONE you tossed to the Individuals you screwed. However, this is only a bone with NO meat on it. As I glance over the brackets one in particular stands out that, in my opinion really stinks. Take a look at 215, you have a young man that would have been the odds on favorite to win his regional and setting himself up for good chance to advance to the state finals, but now he has the opportunity to wrestle for 4th place finish, and luck would have it places him against the young man who is the odds on favorite to win Semi-State. While this does present these individuals with an opportunity to wrestle, it still takes away their FAIR opportunity to compete like everyone else did on Saturday for an opportunity to "set-themselves" up for better odds on advancement. Also, how fair is this to the Regional champ waiting in the wings to wrestle a 4th place finisher, now he finds himself wreslting the "BEST" kid for another regional who did NOT loss a match in the process of finishing 4th. I don't know if there is a fair solution to this debacle. Like I said, this is just a bone with no meat on it. Here is an idea, why can't the individuals who did not get a chance to wrestle Saturday wreslte a "rat-tail" with the highest finisher from the Delta sectional that they beat at Sectional??? This way Chalfant can have a rat-rail match against Neff to see who really deserves to be there and Winchester's 160 lber can have a "rat'tail" match against the Muncie Centeral kid?????? Maybe not a good idea but one that will truely give the kids a shot at what they did have Saturday?

Please add this one to your list, the New Castle SS draws being release prior to the completion of all regionals feeding into it. I truely believe this puts a lot of pressure on all the coaches at the Richmond regional to compete in a fair, honest and ethical level. Who are you kidding when a coach or kid sees a much better match-up if they finish 3rd instead of 2nd? Is it the coaches job to give his kid the best chance to advance or does he owe it to the sport to compete every match and finish as high as possible? This is a tough situation to put the coaches and kids in. But, this is also an easy one to fix...Simply re-draw this SS after the completion of the Richmond Regional.

What is my favorite thing about the MerrillvilIe SS? I would say, "every wrestler got a fair opportunity to compete"............ unlike another Semi-State.

Yorktown vs. Bellmont??????? Not much anticipation here. Looking at the line-ups and the previous match this year, this should not even be close. If Yorktown does not win by at least 20 will mean Bellmont over performed (again) and Ytown under performed (again).

Nice effort and it does generate interesting conversation, however I need to offer "other" food for thought. The scoring system being used is flawed when you are talking about the TOP PROGRAMS. I do not mean to take anthing away from any program but the facts are the facts.... LN dropped out of the Bellmont Super Dual in the decade we are talking about, because their coach admitted that they were not competitve and opted for lesser compition (this does not sound like a top program of the decade, it sounds more like a program that was dominate for a few years or so) and compiled a lot of points in the this scoring system. Much like the success of Griffith, they had 3 outstanding studs and a couple of good kids in the decade, but that does not make them a top program of the decade. The discussion of TOP PROGRAMS should be the consistancy of success, not a few teams having outstanding years for 4 years then dropping off the map. This is like trying to use some kind of point system to say which state champ was better at certain weight class, the 2002 vs. the 2008. Like I said this is good conversation but no way can you put a scoring system in place that will justify any rating sytem...this will always be individual opinions. Great work.....

IMO it will vary by individual. My son started going up to the room at age 5 (part-time, hit and miss), there were times he would not want to go (and did not make him at that age), he would rather stay home and play with the neighborhood kids. No tournaments until he was 7 or 8 then it would only be a couple tournaments a year. By the time Little League came around he was leaving baseball practice early to go to wrestling (his preference) and then it was all wrestling from then on.

Funny that age changes everyting....Beachbum is now my GOAL!!!!

I saw a Mishawaka wrestler, told by his coach to go shake the opposing coaches hand and the kid went over, as the coach stuck out his hand to shake it the wrestler just slapped it instead of a shake. It would have been better to not go over at all, he shook his opponent's hand that is enough. Respect was shown to his opponent, no need to shake the coaches hand....unless the wants to. There is no disrespect in not shaking hands...GROW UP!!!!!!!

Lets see, here is a small list of the 7 largest schools in Indiana and their state qualifiers: 1 Ben Davis 1 2 Carmel 1 3 Warren Central 2 4 North Central 1 5 Penn 1 6 Lake Central 1 7 Pike 1 In fact if you take out perennial state powers LN, PM, Merr. & CP out of the top 30 the numbers are pretty dismal. 22 of the 30 largest schools qualified 1 or 0 wrestlers. Tell those 22 schools that they are dominate because of school size.

I have to go with Tonte on Friday night. No disrespect to Lynde, I just haven't seen him wrestle but I have seen Tonte. Best of luck to both.

Just a quick run down of the FW SS RANKINGS: As everyone knows ranking wrestlers in the correct order they finished is impossible due the the bracket drawings. Here is a run down the state qulaifiers by their rankings, I may not have this 100% b/c I done this quick. 103 - 1,2,3 & 6 112 - 1,2,3 119 - 1,2,4,5 125 - 1,2,7 130 - 1,3,8 135 - 1,2,3 140 - 1,2,4,6 145 - 1,2,3,6 152 - 1,3,4,5 160 - 1,2,3,4 ****GREAT JOB 171 - 1,3,5 189 - 1,2,4,5 215 - 1,2,4,6 285 - 1,2,3,7 Good work Y2, thank you for your hard work, it is fun and educational following the SS rankings.

This is my last post on this subject: I was not in favor of splitting basketball into classes in Indiana, mainly because I grew up during the 1 class system. Was it a good thing? I don't know, maybe in someways. No so good in other ways. I konw it has taked away from our storied past and a lot of the excitement. I still remember watching Damon Bailey before a packed house in the RCA dome. Those days have not been matched since class basketball was introduced. I would rather not see our great sport of wrestling go in that direction either. Who knows maybe it would be good in someways, but I feel it would be bad in more ways. Wrestling is an individual sport, like it or not. We just added the "team" tournament not so many years ago. Have fun debating this topic as it will outlive us all, whether it happens or not. Ps. I will vote for class wrestling if it will stimulate our economy....

Tell that to Andrew Howe, or Ethan Raley.... or many others. Look, it is my opinion that if an individual really wants to have the success in wrestling there are many steps that can be taken within ones realm of control and not blame their school size. Y2 - I am not questioning your work ethic, not the kids and especially the coaches. My point is that in life (or wrestling) if you feel that you are not competing at a level of your satisfaction you need to work harder. To some winning a sectional is success, to some qualifying for regional, etc... there are many different goals. You can create 10 classes but that only means there will be 10 state champs at 140 lbs. Not everyone will be a champ, most will never be not matter how much time and dedication they put in. If that is your goal then the only thing you can do is "work harder". I believe MOST kids will agree when looking back that they can not say, "I done EVERYTHING possible to obtain my goal" but did they do their best? If so that is what matters. If not, well learn, grow, and move on.

I am not sure if your aim is off or you just can't shoot. What you are saying is if "your" kids are not going to state and winning medals then the time they spend is not worth it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing personal but I am glad you are not coaching my son with comments like this. High school sports, but especially wrestling is about teaching the value of hard work and dedication, growing as a person, handling your self in success as well as defeat. It is about getting better, setting "obtainable" goals and working toward those goals. Sucess lies in the journey, not the outcome. I can say this because my son had some goals in his wrestling career. He never reached all those goals but has he looks back wrestling made him a better person, it made him see what he could accomplish if he was dedicated and put in some self sacrifice. Like I said he never reached all of thos goals but wrestling helped him grow and mature and that my friend is something worth while. So you should never take the approach like your statement above.

Work harder, get better. Compete against kids your own age group and size. Plain and simple. In "real" life you are competing against larger obstacles and that is what high school sports is all about, building character, defining work ethic and growing as a person, that is it. If you win a medal along the way, fine (enjoy it), if you don't that is part of the life lesson. You make sacrifices and dedicate your time to something you deem worth while and hopefully something from that experience will follow you in life and make you a better husband, a father, a coach, better person, better employee, better boss, etc... I just got done reading all these arguments for and against but I need to point out two examples looking at just last years champs: 103 lb class, according to the arguments, statistically larger schools "should" produce better quality kids at this difficult weight to fill because they have more kids to choose from...SOMEONE BETTER TELL THAT TO INDIAN CREEKS ETHAN RALEY. I do not see his high school enrollment of 565 kids stopping him from competing with kids from "BIG" schools. There is one young man who graduated from a school of an enrollment of 570 students, whom many will argue is one of best wrestlers to come out of Indiana, his name is Andrew Howe, his school is Hanover Central. There are about 281 male students in that school and far fewer student athletes. This has not stopped Andrew's dream of being the best wrestler he can be. He did not have a large variety of wrestling partners to work out with in his wresting room at school. He got better because he chose to make himself better and he did that regardless of school size. Here is an idea, if you want more kids to participate, make every dual meet like a middle school meet, have 25 or so weight classes, match kids up by experience and we will call it High School "Wildcat" wreslting.... nobody gets cut and everyone gets a ribbon..... (do not take this serious) Individual work ethic, dedication, character and desire will make champions on the mat and in life...NOT CLASS WRESTLING. Wake up America.....

What do you mean they "only" added 14 matches on each mat.....they only used to have 14 matches on each mat. It is now doubled....unless my math is wrong...

Just curious, looking at team state what wresters commit to wreslting year round vs. palying other sports during high school. We know what sport in the winter how about the other seasons? Please see below and fill in the blanks... MISHAWAKA - Enrollment 1,692 FALL SPRING Beck 103 Guerra 112 Schrader 125 Harper 130 Reinoehl 135 Sandefer 140 White 145 Forte 152 Morin 160 Smith 171 Boyd 189 Lentz 215 Thomas 285 CATHEDRAL - Enrollment 1,286 FALL SPRING Harvey 103 Roytek 112 Wright 119 Grey 125 Stringfield 130 Corsaro 135 McGinley 140 McGinley 145 Sullivan 152 Willis 160 Hofmeister 171 Page 189 Buchanan 215 Stokes 285 CROWN POINT - Enrollemnt 2,289 FALL SPRING Halstead 103 Hawkins 112 Manes 119 Tsirtsis 125 Schurg 130 Roach 135 Flamme 140 Renn 145 Porogzolski 152 Meyers 160 Kooi 171 Shrewsbury 189 Bakalik 215 Marshall 285 RONCALLI - Enrollment 1,111 FALL SPRING Davis 103 Kieffer 112 Kieffer 119 Kieffer 125 Dickey 130 Kane 135 Jackson 140 Bartley 145 Williams 152 Luigring 160 Swhear 171 Fuller 189 Mathews 215 Bell 285 BELLMONT - Enrollment 894 FALL SPRING Adams 103 CC ? Melcher 112 FB BB Faurote 119 FB BB or Golf Sheets 125 Soccer Hormann 130 FB BB Busse 135 FB BB Reindenbach 140 Hankenson 145 FB Baker 152 BB Busse 160 FB BB Melcher 171 FB BB Thatcher 189 Baker 215 FB BB Meyer 285 FB PERRY MERIDIAN - Enrollment 2,132 FALL SPRING McKinney 103 Clem 112 Simmons 119 Johnson 125 Cook 130 Goodwin 135 Tonte 140 Tasseff 145 Wood 152 Hudgins 160 Robinson 171 Richards 189 Schaefer 215 Schaefer 285 CASTLE - Enrollment 1,786 FALL SPRING Doud 103 Brown 112 Mann 119 Doud 125 Seitz 130 Welch 135 Welch 140 Richard 145 Pettijohn 152 Weikel 160 Mann 171 Rosebrock 189 Robison 215 Daugherty 285 DELPHI - Enrollemnt 522 FALL SPRING Jones 103 Floyd 112 Back 119 Alderman 125 McTigue 130 Smith 135 Lynde 140 Back 145 Rumell 152 Delaney 160 Atwood 171 Clawson 189 Yoakum 215 Everett 285

I don't think dillon can finish 1st, 2nd and 3rd...you only get 1 place, not all three...haha

You might want to check Woodland 215, it looks like Baker (BEL) is going to wrestle Allen (NS) in the round to go. I think they were both champs. Thank you.

pin2wind1 - Good points, I just remember it was close until the end (Harper getting pinned, probably won't happen again either)

Looking at the guidelines set forth (although I believe so much more goes along with being a "GREAT" coach), I am not sure there is a single "Best Coach" in our state, we are blessed with many individuals who put the kids and the sport in front of personal interest. Some of the names mentioned are certaintly worthy, like Tonte, Peck, Maldanoldo and many, many more. There are/has been a lot of really good teams but the actions of the kids and/or coaches reveals what that coach really stands for. I am going to put a plug in for Bellmont's Brent Faurote. When have you seen a Bellmont wrestler or coach act inappropriately (unlike some other teams)? They are consistently among the top teams (like Perry Meridian, EMD) in the state. It sure appears he gets the most out of his wreslters (come from behind win vs. Merrillville at team state, come from behind win vs. PM at team state and a big win last night against Yorktown) all of those matches most people thought would go the other way. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about Coach Faurote or his program (can't say the same thing about the fans though..haha..). In the end we have a ton of "Best Coaches" in our state, keep up the good work coaches.

To 12ozcurl........don't go away mad...just go away..........

Depends on what you call "hanging with them" but Perry Meridian hung with them right down the to the wire in their dual.

Any thoughts on which lineup Yorktown will use? Will it be their Individual tournament lineup or will it be the lineup they used most of the year in dual meets? Depending on what they use it could have a huge impact on the individual matchups.