Galagore

Fact:  I wrote this poll to see if even one person had changed his or her mind recently about class wrestling
Fact:  At least one person has change his or her mind recently about class wrestling
 
These facts cannot be disputed.  I do not care what you want to get out of this poll.  This poll isn't for you.  It is for me.

So now we have deflected the discussion to how college coaches in this state suck at recruiting. Very interesting...and do you know these guys aren't doing this? Just curious as I see a lot of them at our events...maybe it's too look at me, but whatever.

Wrestling is hard

Exactly...some of these kids might not even be looking to go to college at all if not for a little attention from a D3 wrestling coach.  Why not get more kids that kind of attention, thus get more kids thinking they might give the college thing a try?

From my experiences speaking with a few college coaches especially from out of state, you try explaining that your underclassmen from a small school made it to the state tourney a couple times but lost by a point on Friday night so he doesn't get to wrestle again, while opponents you beat previously got a better draw and wrestle on to place because they won the Friday night match.......they have real difficulty understanding that it's a one and done on Friday night.  Most I talked to don't understand the single class system.  They are looking  for kids who prove they can win some matches at that point in the season.  Doesn't matter too much that you beat state champions from other states in the off-season if it's not something they happen to see.  I think we should class our tourney but we really need to have wrestle backs either way but dang sure if we don't class it out.  And yes by the time your wrestler finishes his senior season most of the D1 programs already have filled the roster so it doesn't much matter at that point to them.  The Smaller colleges are still looking for that last one or two to fill gaps.  
     The smaller high schools in Indiana are generally located in rural areas where kids have long drives sometimes 1-2 hours to get to an RTC or club to practice in the off season.  It's hard to find parent's that can afford the money or time to haul their kids that far to be able to be competitive. It's hard to find small schools that can afford to put together an off season team to travel and get more mat time to places like Disney, Virginia Beach, etc.. Unless a kid gets really lucky and a bigger program with a giving coach from out of your area knows you exist and needs a fill in on one of those teams, they won't get those opportunities.  If those kinds of opportunities aren't important then why are all of the most successful schools fielding teams?  How do schools with no wrestling rooms that roll mats on the gym floor daily to practice or tiny undersized storage closet conversions and share a one or two station "weight room" with the other teams compete with schools that have multi-mat wrestling rooms and weight rooms that are as long as a gym?
    And for the work harder crowd......  I watched one of our local wrestlers get up at 4 am travel to work on a hog farm, get off work and go to work bailing hay and straw painting houses and anything else he could find so he could drive the 1.5-2 hrs one way in the evenings to get to an RTC or a wrestling club and drive that far home during the summer.  During the school year he would go to work early in the mornings before school then to class, then practice and sometimes to work after practice if he didn't get done before school or didn't work before school.  Other kids couldn't believe he put that much into wrestling to have a chance of being a state champion. Kids everywhere work I understand that. But dang few kids work that hard, and that kid is one of many around the state that are doing their best to get better, so don't tell them to"work harder".........There are so many kids out there in these small rural schools working dang hard to be a state champion with limited resources and opportunities.  I believe many of them work just as hard or harder than most........just my two cents

Even if they don't receive any money at all just by getting the chance to wrestle in college might be what helps get that kid through school... I know if it wasn't for sports in high school I probably wouldn't have ever made good enough grades to get into college...
 
Now whether college is right for that kid or not is a whole different topic of discussion... Lots of kids take on huge amounts of debt just to go to college and it ends up hurting them even more in the long run.

Why does it matter if you guys think the tournament would be watered down? You aren't wrestling, the kids are! If it increases their chance of wrestling in college, let's do it. You're trying to limit a kids chance of wrestling in college because of your stubborn old fashion preference. You'd rather watch a one class system than let kids get the chance to better themselves and their life in college. That's extremely selfish of you. The three class system is a need, data points to it regardless of your opinion

YES, being a 3-time champ will get a kid a whole lot more attention than a one time placer in a single class state.
 
The kid that places as a sophomore or junior is going to get looks from colleges. If a kid only places once as a senior it's too late for much college recruiting. I talked to the North Carolina State coach that was there last week and he said he's looking at the class of 2017 and 2018. Division 1 recruiting is mostly done before December, rarely do they have money or even roster spots available in March. Note that MANY DI schools have roster limits so they cannot just take every wrestler. At this point in the game the smaller schools are looking to fill in need areas and trying to snag a diamond in the rough. Even then they may have already passed on the the one time placer for a kid that was at state the year before.
 
Two big factors in recruiting that would help us would be:
1. More kids for college coaches to watch
If you are a college coach will you spend limited recruiting budget to come watch 224 kids or 672(Ohio, Illinois)? That's a pretty easy choice to me. 
 
2. More kids(mostly small school) having more success earlier
Having success earlier will give kids more exposure earlier. 

I do believe I am the reason you got that little nickname...

I find these reasons very superficial, that's great your JV kid beat a state qualifier, but who is more likely to wrestle in college or at least look into it? Who gets their picture on the wall at school? Who gets to parade through the school before state? Who gets a cool write-up in the newspaper? Who is more likely to give back to the sport as a coach, volunteer, ref, super fan, parent, etc?
 
Taking pride in beating someone that on paper you shouldn't beat is great, but in reality that kid that went to state no matter how horrible he was is having a way better wrestling experience than the kid that went to regional. Those kids that go to state will look back and say they had a great time wrestling. Those that went to regional won't likely think the same thing.

I think I'm finally on board with the class wrestling. It makes a lot of sense once data is present. If we want to grow this sport, this is a must. More participation= better competition

Also, on the "freedom of speech" and "dictator" comments, again remember this site is OWNED by Y2.  Much like your own home, Y2 allows/invites people onto his website.  If someone in your home consistently runs his mouth about things you find strongly disagreeable, you are welcome to have that person leave.  That makes you neither a dictator, nor in violation of freedom of speech.

How long is the, "Let's go to one class for the individual tournament" thread on the Michigan (or IL, or PA, etc) message board(s)?

How long is the, "Let's go to one class for the individual tournament" thread on the Michigan (or IL, or PA, etc) message board(s)?

It's not always up to Joe. I leave it up to you MR. MATH!

I am definitely for, and here are my replies to your considerations:
 
1. I totally agree, those should be classed provided that the sports have enough participating schools.
2. Correct
3. If you have numbers you think people should see, feel free to run them.  Why is it always up to Y2 to run everyone's numbers?
4. Also, correct.

I gotta get faster at replying....

You only need one move...when it's the camel clutch.  I'll take the Iron Sheik version.

Gotta love a match that include use of the "Boston Crab"

I have coached two state champions who came from the second smallest school on record to produce a state champ, and the smallest to produce multiple.  People went totally bonkers.  One year, we had a gym packed with about 1,000 people to watch on big screen (we also hosted a regional-champ girls basketball team that year) and the other a few hundred drove to Indy to make up what (according to my eyes and ears:}) was the loudest crowd in the arena.  Then you know what happened?  Nothing.  Numbers went down after both seasons.  You know why?  Kids in our small school saw those guys as super heroes who had done something far beyond their reach.  Life in a small school is different than life in a big school.  That goes for everything from AP scores to essay contests to wrestling state finalists.

Dang, you're so much faster than I am:}

So it should only be fair in respect to qualifiers?  Not medal winners or champs?

What about placers and champs?  Why don't those fall in line with your logic?

Why doesn't Monrovia move up to 6A in football?

I guess the first thing that comes to mind as I sift through these posts is "perspective."  Just who are you in relation to the issue?  Are you a coach, a grandfather of a wrestler, an ex-wrestler, a current high school wrestler?  If you are a coach, you will likely understand the dynamics of a small school better than most, as compared to a large school. (i.e. - lesser resources to work with, smaller coaching staff, fewer drill partners in the practice room, smaller gene pool of athletes to pull from, etc)  I would also caution that the vantage point of a "teacher-coach" is much, much different than that of a "lay coach."  I have been both.  I was a lay coach for 18 years before becoming a teacher for the past 10 years.  Even as a lay coach, I had no idea about the dynamics and inter-workings surrounding the students and their available resources during the school day and on the athletic field.
 
If we want to grow actual wrestling in our state, class wrestling is the way to go.  It offers fair and equitable opportunities to all who participate across the state.  We should class Indiana wrestling for the very same reasons we now class Indiana football, Indiana baseball, etc...   The days of Hickory HS and the movie Hoosiers is long gone.  Community and school dynamics have changed drastically in recent decades.  
 
Class wrestling works in Iowa, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Illinois to name just a few, and it would work tremendously in Indiana.  I don't think anyone can say that the class system has hurt wrestling in any of these other states that surround us.
 
So back to perspective...  just who should have the final say on this topic, since so many people are divided on the issue?  The fan in the stands who doesn't have a singlet on?  The IHSAA who only seems to care about money and self-preservation?  Or should the schools/teams who are the ones in the trenches have the final say-so?
 
I think this point has been made before, but I will mention it again.  If there is no use for "class anything", then let's do away with class football in Indiana.  It's 11 vs 11 right?  Them there small schools should be able to hang with Warren Central and Ben Davis on the gridiron.  While we are at it, let's do away with DI, DII and DIII classifications at the collegiate level!  Those DIII wrestlers need to quit making excuses and man up against Penn State, Oklahoma State and Iowa!  That's a fair assessment isn't it?
 
There are classifications of all kinds in our society's infrastructure in the name of "fair play."  It is time Indiana class its high school wrestling season to offer more equitable opportunities to kids from varying communities and school districts across the state and to grow the sport as a whole.  Mark my words... if we implement class wrestling, our numbers and overall strength of the sport will sky rocket across the state!
 
Coach McCormick