infowrestling

Joe-I'm going to send you a email to help you get in touch with his daughter.
 
I also wanted everyone to know that TAE is still a huge wrestling fan, he always is wanting to wear wrestling shirts. He offered to give me the last few copies of the book in exchange for shirts. I was thinking as he deals with these health issues the wrestling community may show him we are thinking about him by sending him some wrestling shirts from your local school or club. He wears adult medium. So if you have an extra team shirt laying around please feel free to email me about that as well, or I will be at ISWA folkstyle state in a few weeks I can collect some there. 

Those Daleville girls were awesome with the National Anthem. One of the best jobs I've heard.

Thank you.
 
Again, I understand why the system is in place, and I appreciate the amount of time and effort that you and others have directed towards developing an accurate selection process.
I am not wanting the Indiana wrestling community to continue to be content with this selection process.  I have talked to more coaches that either do not understand the process, or do not appreciate the process, than coaches who value  it.  Working towards a weigh-in exemption(s) along with making the tournament more inclusive is the direction Indiana High School Wrestling needs to point.  

Thank you.
 
Again, I understand why the system is in place, and I appreciate the amount of time and effort that you and others have directed towards developing an accurate selection process.
I am not wanting the Indiana wrestling community to continue to be content with this selection process.  I have talked to more coaches that either do not understand the process, or do not appreciate the process, than coaches who value  it.  Working towards a weigh-in exemption(s) along with making the tournament more inclusive is the direction Indiana High School Wrestling needs to point.  

Try explaining to your Semi-State Qualifier that because he placed 4th at Regional, he didn't score any more team points in the system, than someone who lost 1st round in their same Regional, and then telling him, that even though he went to Semi-State, he scored the same amount of points as someone who placed 6th in another Sectional.  We talk over and over about "growing" this sport,   I think the IHSWCA State Duals is an excellent event...........but the points system that it is based on, is not a positive for the kids that are going out on the mat and wrestling.

My point is that a system that is extremely difficult for the casual wrestling fan to understand, is not benefiting our sport.  I understand that the "point" system is in place because of our current constraints, but I believe the IHSWCA's efforts should be directed towards overcoming those constraints and eliminating the current points system. Individuals outside of the wrestling world have enough difficulty understanding the sport of wrestling, and then we add a point system that is even more difficult to understand?  
 
How many kids that are currently participating in high school wrestling could legitimately explain how a team qualifies for IHSWCA Team State?

Try explaining to your Semi-State Qualifier that because he placed 4th at Regional, he didn't score any more team points in the system, than someone who lost 1st round in their same Regional, and then telling him, that even though he went to Semi-State, he scored the same amount of points as someone who placed 6th in another Sectional.  We talk over and over about "growing" this sport,   I think the IHSWCA State Duals is an excellent event...........but the points system that it is based on, is not a positive for the kids that are going out on the mat and wrestling.

All the semi-state previews have been great this year, but the #WAYL2 in this one was an awesome addition. As it's been stated multiple times, we really are blessed with how much we get for free on this site.

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579
 
 

I thought the seating was just fine, also

The 5th Annual IHSWCA Classed Team State Duals will return to the Ft Wayne Coliseum in 2016-17. 
 
Date:  Friday, December 23, 2016  (event set-up will take place the night before... Dec. 22)
 
Additional space:   We have secured the adjoining expo hall which will give the event an additional 35,000 sq. ft. to work with next season.  This will also open up additional bleachers and restroom areas.  We will be able to spread the mats out which will allow us to put the team benches between the mats; thereby improving the spectators' view to the mats.
 
After evaluating this season's event, and listening to feedback and suggestions, we felt like the Ft Wayne Coliseum offered enough positive aspects that it is worth returning for a second year.  We feel like the event's short-comings can be positively addressed and the "learning curve" smoothed out in year two at this facility.  Mr. Brown, and his staff at the Coliseum, have been extremely responsive to our requests and have been wonderful to work with.
 
The tournament planning committee will also be addressing teams' concerns about having to wrestle "the same teams from their area of the state" in the initial rounds of the event.  The selection and seeding committees feel like equitable provisions can be put in place to meet the teams' needs in this area without compromising the integrity of the event.
 
I would like to give a special thanks to JD Minch, Adrian Troyer, Dane Fuelling, Mark Durham, Pat Culp, Patt VanHorn, Nicole Moss, Tom Clark and Jim Russell for their efforts in heading up the various committees and areas for this event. 
 
Respectfully Submitted,
Trent McCormick

OK, I know this won't make me popular, but facts are facts.
 
As much as people on this board say they want a dual meet tournament, the fact is that when you had one, only a few schools really supported it.
 
And by that, I mean this:
 
Most years, when the tournament was at Center Grove, the stands were full. The IHSAA liked that. But most years, both Evansville Mater Dei and Bellmont were there, and 2/3 of the crowd was from those two schools.
 
Then a strange year came along. I believe it was 2010. And horror of horrors, neither Bellmont or Mater Dei qualified for the meet.
 
And what did the IHSAA discover when they got there? The bleachers were half-empty.  And it was quiet.
 
So, the IHSAA did some investigating, and what they discovered was -- other than the big two -- most teams only brought a couple hundred fans at most to the meet.
 
Some schools barely brought a hundred. I won't name names, but all you had to do was look around and you knew who they were. 
 
So, a light went off in the heads of the IHSAA bigwigs. All of a sudden, they realized that whether they made a profit or not depended entirely on two teams.
 
If there's one thing the IHSAA isn't going to do, it's lose money. And having your gate reliant on the fans from Mater Dei and Bellmont made them squeamish.
 
Second, this investigation also made them realize something that the rest of us already knew:  It was the same teams qualifying year after year.
 
​Not entirely, of course. But face it, you knew that Mater Dei was going to be there pretty much every year. And Lawrence North. And Mishawaka or Penn. And Portage or Crown Point.  Yadda yadda yadda.  There were exceptions, but for the most part, it rarely changed. 
 
So what was the motivation for everybody else?
 
Heck, whether you realize it or not, one of the reasons the team semistate was dropped was because the same teams were winning every year. In fact, it got to the point that some schools were sending their jayvee teams to the semistate, because they knew they couldn't win. So they just punted it.  Ask the folks at Bellmont what happened at their semistate one year.
 
So, the IHSAA got the sense that other than the top 8 or 10 programs, nobody really cared about team state, because they knew their schools weren't going to be there.
 
AND, they also saw that most teams that lost in the first round at the team state finals would immediately leave.  If the wrestling was so good and the tournament meant so much to everybody, why didn't the fans stick around and watch, just a little bit.
 
Combine this with the fact that the coaches -- who had begged for the team tournament -- continued to hand out their own championship trophy at the individual state finals. That did NOT go over well at the IHSAA.
 
So the IHSAA said to hell with it, and dropped the tourney.
 
My source for most of this, by the way, is somebody very high up at the IHSAA.  Name rhymes with Rocks.
 
As always, just because I report these things does not mean that I agree with them. But, again, facts are facts.
 
So, be mad at the IHSAA all you want. But while you are doing that, take a look in the mirror. It's a very simple question: In the 17 years of the team state finals, where were you?

Central Noble NEVER made it to team state when they had 3-5 kids. Their rise wasn't because of team state, it was because about 8 years ago a group of parents and kids started hitting the ISWA spring tour. I saw this first hand and knew they had some very talented and hard working kids coming up. I'm sure the other schools have similar stories.
 
 
 
If a team has less than 7 wrestlers being counted for the IHSWCA team state is the least of their worries. You want to act like having a number next to your school's name is some magical thing that helps them when in reality it has little affect. 99.9% of the teams outside the top 20 in each class do not care about their point total.
 
When a team has the requisite number of wrestlers then they will be counted. Having teams with less than 7 wrestlers counted is fruitless and only pads the classes with teams that have NO CHANCE of making the team state duals before the first sectional whistle.
 
What is the difference counting teams with 3 or 4 wrestlers vs. teams with 1 or 2 wrestlers? Why is the magic number to get a set of number 3?
 

Here's a qualifying idea I've been tinkering with in my rare free time the past year.  NOTE:  It is not an official proposal, just an idea.  And it is not completely finished.  Nobody is going to hurt my feelings if you think it's terrible - It's just the start of an idea, that's it.
 
 
IHSWCA Team State Duals
Qualification Idea
 
The Idea
Use 2 weekends in December to select specific dual meet events as “Team State Qualifiers”.  These would simply be normal 6-ways, 8-ways, 10-ways, or whatever the host school chooses to do within certain guidelines (listed below).  Any team that wants to try to qualify for that season’s IHSWCA Team State Duals can participate by joining one of these qualifying events.  The event’s team champion automatically qualifies and would be required to attend the team state duals in January.
 
Qualifying Event Guidelines
1.       All teams in the event must be in the same class (3A, 2A, or 1A)
2.       The event must be a dual meet format where a team champion is crowned from head-to-head competition.
3.       Host schools must follow one of the IHSWCA pre-approved formats or submit an alternate format for approval.
4.       Host schools cannot refuse teams based on ability (too good or too bad).  The purpose is to be all inclusive, so violations would result in a loss of “qualifying event” status.
5.       Host schools organize and pay for all officials and hospitality but also keep all revenue.
6.       Teams are only allowed to enter 1 qualifying event.
7.       Only 1st string Varsity A teams are allowed to be entered. (No Varsity B teams)
8.        
 
The Benefits
·         Qualification for team state would be based on current season’s team. 
·         Every team that wants to try to qualify will have a chance to do so. 
·         2 possible weekends helps teams avoid Conference, County, or other special events.
·         Teams can choose to stay close to home or travel farther for a better chance of qualifying.
·         Nearby teams can separate to different events to give both a chance to qualify.
·         Creates more excitement at regular weekend events with more on the line than just a trophy.
·         Before Winter Break, the teams will have qualified for the Team State Duals.
·        
 
The Needs
·         36 events over 2 weeks (12 events per class)
·         A selection process to determine who will host the events (3 per class per semi state?)
·         Maximum average of 9 schools per event if every school chooses to participate
·         Likely only 6-ways or 8-ways are needed
·         Team State Duals would need to be scheduled in advance away from all holiday tournaments
·        
 
IHSWCA Responsibilities
·         Manage the schedule of 36 events.
·         Host schools do all the leg work (officials, teams, etc.)
·         Oversee & intervene in any reports of abuse by host schools
·         

That's not really my decision.  That line was already drawn, and the people in charge voted not to change it.
 
The ideal event would be IHSAA sponsored, classed, all-in duals from start to finish (not just sectional champs), and separate from the individual post season.
 
Bracket tournament of duals on a Saturday, one weeknight dual on Wednesday, then team state the next Saturday.  It would take lots of organizing to make it happen, so the IHSAA would have to be in charge of it and give it the ultimate creditbility.

I agree with you, that I don't like the idea of telling struggling programs that they don't count.  
 
        Is it possible that a coach that has aspirations for his team being considered the following season, would possibly work to make sure that he has that 7th wrestler in his sectional lineup come tournament time? 

93 schools in each class, this is without updated forfeits AFTER sectional
Class  Team 1A  Indiana Deaf 1A  Turkey Run 1A  Rockville 1A  Attica 1A  North Vermillion 1A  North White 1A  Tri 1A  Indianapolis Manual 1A  Wood Memorial 1A  Union City 1A  West Central 1A  Tecumseh 1A  Southern Wells 1A  Clinton Prairie 1A  Wes-Del 1A  North Miami 1A  Tri Central 1A  Triton 1A  Clinton Central 1A  Covington 1A  Rossville 1A  Cambridge City Lincoln 1A  Sheridan 1A  Northfield 1A  LaVille 1A  Fremont 1A  Southwood 1A  Hagerstown 1A  Monroe Central 1A  Carroll (Flora) 1A  Hebron 1A  Seeger 1A  Adams Central 1A  South Putnam 1A  Fountain Central 1A  Knightstown 1A  North Knox 1A  Shenandoah 1A  Lake Station Edison 1A  Tell City 1A  South Adams 1A  Eastside 1A  Winamac 1A  Milan 1A  Churubusco 1A  River Forest 1A  Westview 1A  Elwood 1A  Forest Park 1A  Eastern Hancock 1A  Wabash 1A  Central Noble 1A  Cloverdale 1A  Indianapolis Howe Community 1A  Indianapolis Scecina 1A  Northeastern 1A  Frankton 1A  Taylor 1A  Monrovia 1A  Southwestern (Hanover) 1A  Eastern (Pekin) 1A  South Spencer 1A  North Newton 1A  Bluffton 1A  Eastern (Greentown) 1A  Prairie Heights 1A  Winchester 1A  Triton Central 1A  Speedway 1A  Cascade 1A  Delphi 1A  Manchester 1A  Lapel 1A  North Putnam 1A  Cass 1A  Oak Hill 1A  North Posey 1A  Union County 1A  Bremen 1A  Woodlan 1A  Mitchell 1A  Centerville 1A  Southmont 1A  South Vermillion 1A  Eastbrook 1A  Hammond Bishop Noll 1A  Whitko 1A  Alexandria 1A  Knox 1A  Rochester 1A  Blackford 1A  Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter 1A  Wheeler   2A  Rensselaer Central 2A  Southridge 2A  Tipton 2A  Jimtown 2A  Northwestern 2A  Western Boone 2A  Salem 2A  Pike Central 2A  West Vigo 2A  Andrean 2A  Fairfield 2A  Benton Central 2A  Heritage Hills 2A  Greencastle 2A  Sullivan 2A  Garrett 2A  Indian Creek 2A  Bishop Luers 2A  Lawrenceburg 2A  Heritage 2A  North Montgomery 2A  Glenn 2A  Princeton 2A  Lakeland 2A  Maconaquah 2A  Brown County 2A  Crawfordsville 2A  Tippecanoe Valley 2A  Calumet 2A  Peru 2A  Indianapolis Bishop Chatard 2A  Gibson Southern 2A  Hamilton Heights 2A  West Lafayette 2A  Hanover Central 2A  Bellmont 2A  Mishawaka Marian 2A  Washington 2A  Evansville Memorial 2A  Corydon Central 2A  Twin Lakes 2A  Greensburg 2A  West Noble 2A  Mount Vernon (Posey) 2A  Charlestown 2A  Guerin Catholic 2A  Fort Wayne Concordia 2A  Rushville 2A  Batesville 2A  Hammond 2A  Norwell 2A  Brebeuf Jesuit 2A  Griffith 2A  Yorktown 2A  Vincennes Lincoln 2A  Danville 2A  Culver Academies 2A  Edgewood 2A  Hammond Clark 2A  Western 2A  Hammond Gavit 2A  Frankfort 2A  Owen Valley 2A  Angola 2A  Northwood 2A  Scottsburg 2A  Delta 2A  Evansville Bosse 2A  Boonville 2A  Franklin County 2A  Beech Grove 2A  South Dearborn 2A  Leo 2A  South Bend St. Joseph 2A  New Haven 2A  Wawasee 2A  New Prairie 2A  Madison 2A  Columbia City 2A  Lebanon 2A  Northview 2A  Bishop Dwenger 2A  Jasper 2A  Kankakee Valley 2A  New Palestine 2A  Jay County 2A  Connersville 2A  Highland 2A  New Castle 2A  Plymouth 2A  Shelbyville 2A  Greenwood 2A  Mount Vernon (Fortville)   3A  Evansville Mater Dei 3A  South Bend Washington 3A  Marion 3A  Evansville Harrison 3A  East Chicago Central 3A  Roncalli 3A  Lowell 3A  DeKalb 3A  East Noble 3A  Logansport 3A  Gary West Side 3A  Evansville Central 3A  South Bend Clay 3A  Fort Wayne Wayne 3A  South Bend Riley 3A  Indianapolis Cathedral 3A  Seymour 3A  East Central 3A  Northridge 3A  Hobart 3A  Hammond Morton 3A  Fort Wayne South Side 3A  Mooresville 3A  Evansville Reitz 3A  Pendleton Heights 3A  Richmond 3A  Jennings County 3A  Greenfield Central 3A  Mishawaka 3A  Munster 3A  Columbus East 3A  Plainfield 3A  Martinsville 3A  Bedford North Lawrence 3A  Evansville North 3A  Franklin Community 3A  Concord 3A  Huntington North 3A  Decatur Central 3A  Floyd Central 3A  Bloomington North 3A  Muncie Central 3A  Michigan City 3A  McCutcheon 3A  South Bend Adams 3A  Whiteland 3A  Bloomington South 3A  Harrison (wl) 3A  Fort Wayne North Side 3A  Indianapolis Arsenal Tech 3A  Zionsville 3A  Fort Wayne Snider 3A  Goshen 3A  Terre Haute North 3A  Elkhart Central 3A  Terre Haute South 3A  Kokomo 3A  Anderson 3A  Elkhart Memorial 3A  Westfield 3A  Lafayette Jefferson 3A  Castle 3A  New Albany 3A  LaPorte 3A  Chesterton 3A  Columbus North 3A  Valparaiso 3A  Southport 3A  Warsaw 3A  Carroll(Fort Wayne) 3A  Jeffersonville 3A  Fort Wayne Northrop 3A  Merrillville 3A  Perry Meridian 3A  Lawrence North 3A  Homestead 3A  Lawrence Central 3A  Brownsburg 3A  Center Grove 3A  Portage 3A  Franklin Central 3A  Crown Point 3A  Noblesville 3A  Avon 3A  Fishers 3A  Hamilton Southeastern 3A  Pike 3A  Lake Central 3A  Penn 3A  North Central 3A  Warren Central 3A  Ben Davis 3A  Carmel None  Indianapolis Arlington None  Indianapolis Marshall None  Indianapolis Northwest None  Randolph Southern None  Blue River Valley None  Faith Christian None  Frontier None  Indianapolis Lutheran None  Culver Community None  South Newton None  New Washington None  Pioneer None  Daleville None  Lafayette Central Catholic None  Caston None  Indianapolis Crispus Attucks None  North Judson None  Wapahani None  Whiting None  Madison Grant None  Paoli None  Switzerland County None  Providence None  Crawford County None  Indianapolis Broad Ripple None  Boone Grove None  Tri West None  Indianapolis Washington None  Mississinewa

The biggest deficiency right now is that we include teams with less than 7 wrestlers in the calculations.

I think an excellent point here is that Coach McCormick and those involved with putting the event together have been willing to take risks and improve upon the event.  Kudos to them!
 
I think it's important to have a constructive dialogue on how the event can be improved, and where the event is going. The more I look at Ohio's rules and guidelines, the more I agree with Fabio........an event that included all teams with 7 or more participants could be a step forward as far as including more, competitive teams and increasing the level competition, especially at the 1A level. 

Here is a link to the Ohio Team State Rules and Regulations:  http://ohsaa.org/sports/wr/boys/wrrglts-team.pdf

 
Is that the main goal?  I don't mind this idea either, but I haven't heard anyone state that we would look at this format. 
 
Something interesting that I noticed in these rules and regulations:
8. ENTRY FORMS AND ELIGIBILITY CERTIFICATES (a) A school that can field a team of 7 weight classes or more is eligible to enter the Dual Team Tournament.

FYI-Evansville Mater Dei is not a 1A school. If they chose not to compete in 3A next year in the IHSWCA event, they would be in 2A.
 
 
 
This thread is just as much about the RETURN of the TEAM state dual tournament as it is about class. 
 
 
 
Does anyone want to defend the lack of a TEAM tournament in Indiana. Classed or unclassed, I don't care. 
 
 
WE NEED A TEAM EVENT.

I think I may have driven the train off the tracks. I probably should reread the starting thread before I make a turn. Sorry

I have been a fan/advocate of the current team state format because it is a blast to watch, and I know that the individuals who organize and contribute to the event have sacrificed an incredible amount of their time and resources to create and improve upon the product.
 
I agree though...........from here, we have to move towards a classed, all in format, in hopes that it improves the concept of team within our sport.  Would a team work more diligently to field a full lineup, if they knew that they were going to compete in an event like this?  (I think that it would be more likely)  Would other programs become more interested in watching and attending other levels of these event because they competed in the event from the start? (possibly)
 
If we are realistically looking to improve the sport and create something that the IHSAA would possibly adopt, we are kidding ourselves if we are going to continue to go the route of the algorithm rather than the all in format.  If we are looking to only showcase our best teams, then we continue to stay the course.  

I think the main goal here is to end up with something like Ohio has....beginning of the year you decide if you want to compete in the Team Dual Tourney and then they have Sections, Districts and a team dual tourney...very basic explanation but its fascinating to learn about I highly recommend looking it up