GrecoCoach

Maybe this will help the IHSAA see that starting earlier on Friday isn't so bad. This could open the door in the future to increasing qualifiers to 20 or 24 per weight class. Or time for some format that gives 1st round losers a chance to place top 8. All it would take is one more session like they're doing this year.

I'm not sure all the seniors would even want another year. They were prepared to finish off their college careers and graduate. It doesn't seem very appealing to have to remain in school, train another full year, keep cutting weight, and battle through another season. And a few may just want to move on to the Olympic styles. Postponing until May would be cool for fans, but they are probably not going to be able to practice much at all with the campuses shut down. It would be difficult to make weight and wrestle their best with that much time off. It's really a no-win scenario. Maybe they could simply take the top 8 seeds (or 10) and call them all All-Americans. No places, no champs, just "All-Americans". It would suck for the ones who want to be national champs, but for guys like Lydy who have improved each year to get to this point and earned a top 8 seeding based on set criteria, they would at least get that All-American status forever. Guys like Red and Lee could still become 4-time All-Americans. Just a thought.

Schoolboy National Duals? Are they still hosted here in Indiana? I know the kids are younger, but it's still quite big with a lot of talent from across the nation.

That's awesome! How many years ago was this proposed? I'm assuming this is a bylaw change, so when is the next chance for an AD to propose this?

I complete agree with that reasoning for our travel restrictions. The top teams would go to the big national tournaments and draw in more of our studs from nearby communities. The rich would get richer. However, I have a big problem with the IHSAA restricting the travel of schools outside of Indiana. Why do they get to dictate travel for teams from other states? If a really good team from Iowa wants to spend the time and money to compete at the Mater Dei Classic, and their school and state association allow it, then who is that hurting from Indiana?

I'm curious what the percentages are for other IHSAA individual sports. For example, I wonder if the state qualifiers for cross country or track are more evenly distributed than us for small, medium, and large schools. Or, maybe, they have a similar distribution as ours. If I have a little free time, I'll look into it. I'm just not that passionate about this topic one way or the other. I enjoy our single-class tournament, but I would also enjoy a classed tournament. There are probably a lot of people like me who would be fine with either.

Schools vs Population are 2 very extreme stats that neither represent wrestling very well. I'd be more interested in seeing the percentages based on participation. The weight certification data would be one way to get the number of wrestlers per school. There are very small schools with lots of wrestlers that overall do quite well. And there are very large schools with very few wrestlers that overall don't do so well. The number of wrestlers in the room is going to have a big impact on the success for that school. Anyone know who has access to that data? Just need the number per school, not all the alpha weights or plans.

Can we get this match shown on the big screen between the placement matches and the finals? It’d get the crowd more pumped up than just some music.

152 - Garrett Stuckman - Wawasee Undefeated (16-0) senior, semistate champ, faces another unranked Friday night then #5 Saturday morning. Probably a better situation than any other unranked guys.

NCAA D1 uses an all blue mat for the finals because it looks the best on a video camera. Also, wouldn't our state set-up look great with 2 more mats for 56 extra wrestlers to get a chance to wrestle on them?

From IHSAA.org about the track state finals: Advancement from State Meet Trials to Finals 1. 110 and 100 Hurdles, 100; 200 a. 3 heats with 9 b. 1st, 2nd from each heat plus next 3 best times. Now imagine that they just used the top 3 from each of the 3 heats. The track coaches would have a huge issue with who was in each heat. And the 4th best runner could easily be eliminated before the finals in a faster heat. The IHSAA has put in place a system to better allow the 9 best runners to advance. The difference is that track (and swimming) have a way to compare the different heats (time) but wrestling does not. That's what the 5th place match would be compared to. Bobby Cox should understand this comparison from his own coaching background.

Basketball coaches recruit, swimming coaches change times for state cuts, etc. There are some unethical coaches in every sport that try to cheat the system. Those coaches should be punished individually. It's very petty for the IHSAA to punish the entire sport because of a few coaches. And I'm guessing that violates at least one of their bylaws.

Here's what I remember the story being, which also explains how the IHSAA thinks... The coaches' association proposed not scoring the first round (pigtails) of SECTIONALS because not all teams had that match, and some close Sectional team scores/champions were determined by who had the most pigtail matches. The IHSAA took that and then decided that it should be consistent throughout the whole state series, so team scores don't start until the quarter finals at each stage. And since nobody at the IHSAA understands wrestling, they cannot fathom why Semi State and State would be any different, even though there are full brackets for that first round.

Having an IHSAA commissioner that understands wrestling would be very helpful. A lot of the rules/bylaws need to be able to apply to all sports, though. But it is irritating how old school / outdated / ancient some of the rules in Indiana are compared to the rest of the country. Until we can get a wrestler on the inside, we need to play by their rules and propose changes that have a chance to pass. And maybe lead to something better in the future. I think getting 5th place matches back for qualification could be a stepping stone to full wrestlebacks at Semi State.

This topic has nothing to do with wrestlebacks at State. Let's fix Semi State first with a solution that will be hard for the IHSAA to dismiss.

Maybe I didn't explain it enough. Saturday of State would be exactly the same. Friday would have a short round of 4v5 and then the normal Friday night round, leaving the usual 8 left per weight class. If they put 6 mats down for Friday night, they wouldn't need to start any earlier and could still finish around 10pm. Edit: Currently there are 112 matches on Friday night on 4 mats = 28 matches/mat New would be 168 matches on Friday night on 6 mats = 28 matches/mat Friday night of state would take the exact same amount of time to get through the 2 rounds.

That is an NFHS rule that varsity consolation matches are 1-2-2. The IHSAA might be able to make an exception, but they rarely stray too far from the NFHS.

I also like that this keeps the excitement of the ticket round as it has been. Win and you're in, lose and the best you can do is draw into a semi state champ Friday night. But it adds another exciting 5th place match to qualify at each weight class and makes that 3rd place match even more important to earn a first round bye on Friday night.

I'm pretty sure I've posted this idea on here before, but here it is again... Let's start with some IHSAA philosophies, since they are the ones ultimately making the decision. Bobby Cox and company don't like "wrestlebacks" so this is something different. They are used to the one-and-done postseasons of football and basketball and have asked the wrestling coaches how many times someone should be allowed to lose and still move on. Our answer should be 2 - double elimination. The IHSAA views all 4 weeks as one big tournament. So, make the whole thing as close to double elimination as possible, like every other wrestling tournament in the world. That means we should guarantee that someone has lost twice in the tournament series or lost once to someone who has already lost twice (i.e., 4 over 1). Right now, there are 2 times when this does not happen. One is the pigtail round of Sectionals, which should be fixed by not pairing unseeded wrestlers against the top seeds. The only other spot that happens is the ticket round of Semi State, where an undefeated postseason wrestler can lose to someone with 1 postseason loss. That's what this solution will fix. The IHSAA also doesn't believe in upsets. They believe whoever wins must be the better wrestler. We cannot use any upsets as examples, because in their minds upsets do not happen. But if we can show them the fundamental flaw in their system that can be easily fixed with minimal effort, it has a much better chance of passing. And finally, the IHSAA likes to make more money and loves it's own ideas. This fix appeals to both of those philosophies, as well. And now for the idea... Qualify the top 5 out of each Semi State. Several years ago, the IHSAA had one year when they added matches to 5th place, but it was only for team score purposes. We bring back the IHSAA's own idea, so the ticket round losers pair up at the same time as the semifinals, and those winners wrestle for 5th at the same time as the 1st and 3rd place matches (like they do on Saturday of State). If your SemiState ran the semis on 2 mats, then this would take no extra time. If your SemiState ran the semis on 4 mats, then this would add about 45 minutes to the tournament. This year, New Castle was done around 6pm with 10 minute breaks between rounds and a 30+ minute lunch break. State will then have 20 per weight class, which will be more fans/money for the IHSAA without watering down the state tournament. Pair up the 4's versus 5's for an opening round on Friday night before the usual first round. Banker's Life can easily hold 6 mats to actually make Friday night go quicker. Details about the 20-man state bracket can be worked out later, but there would definitely be some exciting 4v5 and 5v1 matches on Friday night. Again, these would not be "wrestlebacks" - they are 5th place matches. They are not meant to give kids who lost (or got upset or had a bad match) an extra chance. This just fixes a systemic flaw in the "double elimination" of the tournament series overall. If the Coaches' Association proposes it like this, it would have a better chance of being approved by the IHSAA. A couple of additional benefits to this would be having a true alternate (6th place finisher) and more accurate team scores.

Todd Wright - Carmel - 1997

Can Zionsville combine its scores or do they need to split it in two? Or was that just a typo? Who should be in the 6/7 position?

Dude, it’s a hypothetical analogy. Of course the Colts would never tell all their opponents what they’re going to do. Wouldn’t that be stupid? Like telling everyone that your team will forfeit all matches to girls and act surprised when a team puts a few girls in their line up against you.

Let's say the Colts announced a team rule that they will only run the ball up the middle on the goal line. (like saying you will forfeit to a girl) Would Belicheck be "dirty" for stacking the box with all 11 defensive players knowing the Colts won't try anything else? If you set a team rule or policy, you leave yourself open to others taking advantage of it. So, I agree with Galagore - recruiting girls just for that purpose is dirty and against every coaching philosophy, but if they are already on the team, it is smart.

Aren't both teams "dodging" the competition, just in different ways?

The formula for Carroll's regional is wrong. Let's blame Joe for the inflated number.