Y2CJ41 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Therefore people need to check their results pages for duplicates and missing results. These are VERY important in calculations of team state numbers so it is vital that we get as MUCH data as possible. Post on here or PM me if there are duplicates on your team's page. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Just to be clear: we will find all the duplicates. It saves us a lot of work if you help, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Also, to clarify: genius ratings don't have any direct factor in teams qualifying for team state. They are only used in determining sectional and regional category levels that correspond to the pre-tournament quota of "deserved" regional and semistate qualifiers per weight class at each site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 But they are an indirect factor in determining if a team goes to team state as a result. It improves your chances of having a higher score when a teams regional and sectional are ranked higher or in your words has a higher "deserved" quota. backtothemat and bog190 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowrestling Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Also, to clarify: genius ratings don't have any direct factor in teams qualifying for team state. They are only used in determining sectional and regional category levels that correspond to the pre-tournament quota of "deserved" regional and semistate qualifiers per weight class at each site. Genius Ratings have a "direct" impact on sectional multipliers, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Genius Ratings have a "direct" impact on sectional multipliers, correct? Just as a review from last year: the multipliers no longer exist. Instead there is an assigned quota of positions that earn regional qualifier points from each sectional based on sectional difficulty. Similarly, there is an assigned quota of positions at regional that earn semi-state qualifier points. Examples: --Last year, Crawfordsville was a Category 4 sectional. This means that the top 4 guys from sectional earned regional qualifier points. --Mishawaka was a Category 5 sectional, which means the top 5 guys earned regional qualifier points at each weight class. --Jeffersonville was a Category 3 regional, which means only the top 3 guys earned semi-state qualifier points at each weight class. Sectional and regional categories range from 2 to 6. Almost all sectionals and regionals are in the 3 to 5 range. We've used several years of data and the results of almost 1000 teams over that period, with the help of data analysis software, to determine which levels of team Genius ratings correspond to how many expected regional and semi-state qualifiers for any given team if they were in an average level tournament. We use each team's projected "deserved" total to determine an entire sectional or regional's "deserved" total to determine the quotas. Examples: --Last year, all of the Castle sectional teams combined to "deserve" 70.3 regional qualifiers. 70.3 divided by 14 weight classes equals 5 deserved regional qualifiers per weight class. They were assigned to Category 5. --Last year, all of the LaPorte sectional teams combined to "deserve" 41.2 regional qualifiers. 41.2 divided by 14 weight classes equals 3 deserved regional qualifiers per weight. They were assigned to Category 3. The fear coaches have expressed is that missing results will mess up these calculations. This is very rarely true, for a couple of reasons: 1. Once a team has about 5 duals in the system, their rating does not change much. Surprisingly, the level you show from dual to dual is fairly consistent over time once you get a few competitions into consideration. 2. Because the Genius ratings are performance-based (score-based) and not wins-losses based (since this is a much better predictor of true talent than wins/losses), a good performance in a loss can actually help you just as much or more as a close win over a team that should be much worse than you. Picking and choosing which results you enter, therefore, depends on knowing exactly how good a team's Genius level is (and we haven't published ratings yet, so that's impossible to know). 3. Any competition in your sectional or regional might affect your score some, but it doesn't affect your collective sectional or regional quality level at all. We REALLY want teams to enter as many results as possible because of helping the accuracy of all teams' profile pages on this website. But for Genius ratings, the end result of the 3 above factors means that at this point of the season any single missing result would only affect an individual team by, at most, a couple of percentage points. And that impact on an entire sectional or regional's category assignment is literally maybe a hundredth of a point or two. (i.e. a 3.02 category calculation might get moved to a 3.03 or 3.04 with a dramatically unusual single-team result, having no impact on the rounding of a tournament to Category 3 rather than Category 2 or 4.) Edited January 8, 2016 by maligned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowrestling Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just as a review from last year: the multipliers no longer exist. Instead there is an assigned quota of positions that earn regional qualifier points from each sectional based on sectional difficulty. Similarly, there is an assigned quota of positions at regional that earn semi-state qualifier points. Examples: --Last year, Crawfordsville was a Category 4 sectional. This means that the top 4 guys from sectional earned regional qualifier points. --Mishawaka was a Category 5 sectional, which means the top 5 guys earned regional qualifier points at each weight class. --Jeffersonville was a Category 3 regional, which means only the top 3 guys earned semi-state qualifier points at each weight class. Sectional and regional categories range from 2 to 6. Almost all sectionals and regionals are in the 3 to 5 range. We've used several years of data and the results of almost 1000 teams over that period, with the help of data analysis software, to determine which levels of team Genius ratings correspond to how many expected regional and semi-state qualifiers for any given team if they were in an average level tournament. We use each team's projected "deserved" total to determine an entire sectional or regional's "deserved" total to determine the quotas. Examples: --Last year, all of the Castle sectional teams combined to "deserve" 70.3 regional qualifiers. 70.3 divided by 14 weight classes equals 5 deserved regional qualifiers per weight class. They were assigned to Category 5. --Last year, all of the LaPorte sectional teams combined to "deserve" 41.2 regional qualifiers. 41.2 divided by 14 weight classes equals 3 deserved regional qualifiers per weight. They were assigned to Category 3. The fear coaches have expressed is that missing results will mess up these calculations. This is very rarely true, for a couple of reasons: 1. Once a team has about 5 duals in the system, their rating does not change much. Surprisingly, the level you show from dual to dual is fairly consistent over time once you get a few competitions into consideration. 2. Because the Genius ratings are performance-based (score-based) and not wins-losses based (since this is a much better predictor of true talent than wins/losses), a good performance in a loss can actually help you just as much or more as a close win over a team that should be much worse than you. Picking and choosing which results you enter, therefore, depends on knowing exactly how good a team's Genius level is (and we haven't published ratings yet, so that's impossible to know). 3. Any competition in your sectional or regional might affect your score some, but it doesn't affect your collective sectional or regional quality level at all. We REALLY want teams to enter as many results as possible because of helping the accuracy of all teams' profile pages on this website. But for Genius ratings, the end result of the 3 above factors means that at this point of the season any single missing result would only affect an individual team by, at most, a couple of percentage points. And that impact on an entire sectional or regional's category assignment is literally maybe a hundredth of a point or two. (i.e. a 3.02 category calculation might get moved to a 3.03 or 3.04 with a dramatically unusual single-team result, having no impact on the rounding of a tournament to Category 3 rather than Category 2 or 4.) Could you please clarify on how exactly the level system is different from the multiplier system? I need more review!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The multiplier simply assigned a multiplier between 0.7 and 1.3 and multiplied the score of ALL of your wrestlers who lost in the first round of semi-state or earlier. The quota system does not adjust your score. You know going into sectional and regional exactly how many positions will earn regional qualifier or semi-state qualifier points and go out and earn them. The multiplier was relatively accurate, but not as accurate as the quota system. It was cutting at the right spot, but a little like an axe. The quota system is more like a scalpel. Also, the quota system is much easier for you to tabulate on your own. If you're a Sectional 3, for example, you just chalk up regional qualifier points for all your guys who placed top 3 at sectional, "sectional 5th/6th" points for guys that finished in 4th and 5th, and sectional no place points for guys who finished lower than 5th. No worrying about when and how a multiplier is applied. You know your points after sectional, then you head to regional trying to earn slots in your semi-state qualifier quota there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Maligned, Just curious if the results against 2nd teams/JV get excluded from the Genius rating? Also do some of the out of state opponents get included, or did you just exclude them during the calc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'll answer a little bit Both JV teams and out of state teams can help connect teams together. Basically what the calculation does is connect you to your opponents to their opponents, to their opponents, and so on. Say Carroll and Harrison both wrestle Culver, they can be connected that way. Also we can get connected because Carroll wrestled Mount Vernon, MV wrestled West Lafayette, and WL wrestled Harrison. That is the basics of it and of course the more connections you get, the better the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'll answer a little bit Both JV teams and out of state teams can help connect teams together. Basically what the calculation does is connect you to your opponents to their opponents, to their opponents, and so on. Say Carroll and Harrison both wrestle Culver, they can be connected that way. Also we can get connected because Carroll wrestled Mount Vernon, MV wrestled West Lafayette, and WL wrestled Harrison. That is the basics of it and of course the more connections you get, the better the result. Right, including out of state and JV teams' results add to making Indiana varsity teams' ratings as accurate as possible by functioning as additional common opponents. However, JV and out of state teams' ratings have no bearing on anything when we're calculating sectional and regional Category levels for team state qualifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwrestler215 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Therefore people need to check their results pages for duplicates and missing results. These are VERY important in calculations of team state numbers so it is vital that we get as MUCH data as possible. Post on here or PM me if there are duplicates on your team's page. Thanks Fountain Central wrestled and beat Mt. Vernon Fortiville, not the Mt. Vernon from Ohio. That one just needs deleted. Also, how do I add wrestlers to my roster on my team page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Fountain Central wrestled and beat Mt. Vernon Fortiville, not the Mt. Vernon from Ohio. That one just needs deleted. Also, how do I add wrestlers to my roster on my team page? The Mount Vernon scores will be fixed. Wrestlers are added by admins if they are on our watch lists for state and semi-state rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backtothemat Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Any updates on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 We ended up bringing in results from last week and the weekend, so it pushed us back. Hopefully by the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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