Coaches - Why no concern last year?

[bharmon01]

When I was running this morning I was thinking - why is there now all this concern about a Team State Dual Tournament and last year when we warned everyone the IHSAA was going to end it nobody cared?

We talked about it at the Fall clinic and a committee was supposed to be formed to save Team State.

There were no pleas for support of Team State or let's have meetings or lets take a poll of coaches that I remember.

No coach who said they would be on the committee for saving Team State said or did anything. They never came on here and asked for coaches support or input in this matter.

There was never another word about it until we got close to to Team State and the answer was lets get a lot of people there.

 

Now we want support for a Team State because they (IHSWCA) says it will be a classed Team State?

I get it - a lot of schools want classed Team State - the problem is the IHSAA doesn't!

So we let them take the Team Tournament away without a fight because it didn't benefit me.

Now we have coaches wanting to be vocal and support a Classed IHSWCA Team State tournament on here - where were they last year?

 

If we had fought the IHSAA last year we might have won - kept TEAM STATE - now we have lost it and may never get it back. A lot of people don't know how much we fought just to get Team State because that was what our membership wanted. Like I have said before, who knows down the road we may have eventually got classed Team State  if that is what our membership wanted. The thing is it takes time to get it. It took  a long time to get the changes we achieved in the Individual tournament - it was going to take time to get them to see the positive in changes in the Team tournament.

 

My point is - I see on these other threads these coaches saying they favor this class tournament :

Where were they last year? Why not fight for Team State Last Year?

It is not a all inclusive tournament - you have to be invited

It is not an IHSAA sanctioned tournament

It is really no more than another super dual tournament

Do you really want to call yourself the Team Dual State Champion if not every school participated?

If you want to be the State Champion it needs to be a IHSAA event

and we let the IHSAA take that away without a fight

If if and buts were candy and nuts everyday would be Christmas!

What IF we would have put up a fight last year?

 

 

[Y2CJ41]

The concern should have been four years ago when they took away Team Semi-State.  The concern should have been six years ago when Bobby Cox and company told our "leaders" that they weren't big fans of Team State and changes were imminent with the elimination of the tournament a possibility.

[busstogate]

Although I don't think classing was probably a huge reason for fighting or not fighting the IHSAA on team state, I recall an amount of  stated apathy on these boards toward keeping a tournament that over 90% of the state would never get a chance to experience.

[Jake Riesen]

bharmon I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you.  Last year 80% of the coaches were on record for wanting a classed team state tournement.  That is hardly no one caring.  The coaches association had meetings and committees that seemed to have the same idea a classed team state.  Then out of the blue they held one meeting and tryed to totally change the format from what the majority of coaches actually wanted.  So that leads us to where we are today.  We have a coaches association that didn't listen to what the coaches wanted.  I am sorry, but the coaches assocition needs to step up and fight for the coaches on a whole.  If they do not then the association and their membership are not worth anything.  I have heard a lot of questions from theIHSWCA on here.  One big one has always been:

How do we get more member?  May I suggest one simple thing.  Try and support what the coaches want and maybe your membership will actually grow.  The coaches want a classed team state and I am willing to bet that if you give them that you will see a huge spike in membership.  So untill the IHSWCA gets off their butts and fight for what the coaches want they are a worthless organization.  I hope on December 4th the voices of reason show up in force and actually fight for what is right for the state on a whole.

[Darrick Snyder]

Coach Harmon,

 

Wish I could say I went running today, but just didn't happen:)  I can only directly speak for myself, but I have been very concerned about losing team state for several years.  I have also actively worked to promote and keep team state.  I ran through all that in another thread so I won't repeat it all.  

 

I honestly believe the major difference now from last year is we as a coaches association can choose to class team state it.  From my understanding, a large number of coaches would not support and did not care about IHSAA Team State because it wasn't classed AND they believed the IHSAA would not class it - or we as a coaches association would not consistently and truly work to get it classed.

 

Snyder

[AJ]

I hope on December 4th the voices of reason show up in force and actually fight for what is right for the state on a whole.

 

Just because it is what 80% of the  coaches polled wanted, does NOT mean it is what is right for the state as a whole.  We can not and should not confuse  what we want and  what is right.  Only time will tell.

[bharmon01]

 

I also have been concerned about the IHSAA ending Team State since the first time they hinted at it. We warned our membership and like you stated most coaches didn't care because they felt they had no chance unless it was classed and asked for the IHSWCA to push for wrestlebacks. Here in lies the problem - we should have fought for Team State because without Team State being a IHSAA sanctioned event there is no chance to push for a classed tournament if that is what our coaches wanted. Now it has been discontinued and the IHSAA has washed their hands of it. They said we can do it, but knew it would be impossible without being a IHSAA sanctioned event.

 

The IHSWCA has always fought for what the majority of our polled membership wanted. Wrestling in Indiana today is nothing like it was in the 1970s that I competed in. We have made a lot of major changes in the Individual Tournament and implementing a Team Tournament in 1996. The Team tournament was not perfect but it was what the coaches wanted back then. It was a major victory with the IHSAA. A classed team state back then and even now was not an option with the IHSAA. Don't think the IHSWCA didn't bring up classed team state or even class individual state, because it did. The IHSAA was never going to talk class because wrestling was by their definition an individual sport and no individual sports were going to be classed. We had won the battle for a team dual state, but don't ask for class because wrestling is an individual sport.

What everyone fails to understand is if the IHSAA doesn't want class for wrestling, then there is no class for wrestling.

If you want to be a sanctioned IHSAA event in wrestling then there is no class until the IHSAA decides they want to support it. Right now they are not ready to go there.

 

Now a lot of people are jumping on here saying they want a Classed Team State - how are we going to do it and still fall within the IHSAA guidelines? They are not going to give the IHSWCA multiple waivers for weigh-ins so it has to be  one event. How is one event a team state tournament? classed or not? Everyone jumping on here thinks they are going to be involved in this event, but they are not. It will be by invite, who decides who gets to come? Are the best teams represented? I has to be all in and wrestle down from there to decide a true Team Champion, classed or not. Its not a true Team State Tournament. Who will host these tournaments without being IHSAA sanctioned events? There are a lot of boys and girls basketball games to work around. Where will the officials come for to call all these classed wrstling tournaments?

 

Don't get me wrong, I drove 7 hours round trip to Indianapolis for a lot of years as a Regional rep, Vice President,  President and to some of you as a "good old boy" to fight for Indiana wrestling. I'm just trying to stir the pot and get some you young coaches involved. Fight for what our membership wants even if we may lose. The IHSWCA has fought a lot of battles our membership wanted knowing were were going to lose, but we still fought the battle.

Last year we didn't fight for Team State because not enough felt it was worth fighting for. Now it is gone and how will we get it back? I wish we would have had this much concern last year, or even 6 years ago when we warned you this was coming.

 

[Darrick Snyder]

Coach Harmon,

 

I have to finish some of the paperwork before I head to the meeting so I have to be quick.  What I want and what I think most people on here and coaches want is to take a step in the right direction to a Classed Team State Tournament.  Create a model that we can grow from to a possibly all-inclusive tournament.  It will not be perfect in its first year or even second...but lets take a step in the right direction and build upon it.  Yes, it will have to be invite based, but I hold every attempt should be made to invite the projected best teams.  No, they do not have to come.  The idea is to Class a Team State and work consistently at it together to get what we want.  You make great points about your experience dealing with the IHSAA.  I have had some run ins with them too - not a fun or flexible group to deal with. 

 

All of your concerns are legitimate...I think once we decide the direction we want to go in as a state we head there together...and answer these questions publically and together.

 

Snyder