ENoblewrestling Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Its actually 75/25 over the past 10 years. This is also the approximatly the same numbers as the total population of the schools. 75% of kids go to big schools, 25% go to small schools. In many people's opinions (mine included) random talent distribution would say that if 75% of the kids go to big schools than 75% of the qualifiers should be from big schools, thus the 25% of kids who make it from small schools is exactally what a random sample would produce, thus showing no correlation to some unfair advantage that big school kids have. Y2 and many others who support class feel that since 50% of the wrestlers entered in the tournament are from small schools and 50% from big schools that the number of qualifiers from both should be 50%. In my opinion this is skewing the stats because it does not take into account the fact that 75% of the total population go to big schools and 25% go to small schools so in many's opinion using the same data this 75/25 ratio is what you would be expected to get. In other words if you just randomly took kids from these two populations 75% of the time the more naturaly talented kids would come from big schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestling guru Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Guy's... do we not all agree that wrestler's in general take pride in knowing work ethic, responsibilities, amd a true knack for knowing what it takes to be a champion??? I say we do, school size doesnt matter, for an individual trying to be a state champ it takes a massive work ethic and ect. so someone saying it isn't possible to have success because the size of there school is poop. You dont just get a state championship for showing up and trying your best.... i guess what im trying to say is it is up to the individual on how hard he is willing to work, going to weekend tournaments, working in the off season and putting in the extra work it takes.. there are to many variables to name that take affect in a athletses success to just say "hey the school is small" there should be NO classed individual, team is another story.. team state should be classed and would make the team state championship very exciting, will also promote more kids in you "small school" argument to come out, and make wrestling a better sport in the state of indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 This is also the approximatly the same numbers as the total population of the schools. 75% of kids go to big schools, 25% go to small schools. In many people's opinions (mine included) random talent distribution would say that if 75% of the kids go to big schools than 75% of the qualifiers should be from big schools, thus the 25% of kids who make it from small schools is exactally what a random sample would produce, thus showing no correlation to some unfair advantage that big school kids have. Y2 and many others who support class feel that since 50% of the wrestlers entered in the tournament are from small schools and 50% from big schools that the number of qualifiers from both should be 50%. In my opinion this is skewing the stats because it does not take into account the fact that 75% of the total population go to big schools and 25% go to small schools so in many's opinion using the same data this 75/25 ratio is what you would be expected to get. In other words if you just randomly took kids from these two populations 75% of the time the more naturaly talented kids would come from big schools. Just the point I was going to make. If there are 3 big lakes with 400 fish and 3 small lakes with 50 fish, which lake has the better odds of producing a big fish? let me tell you its not 50-50. BUT, each fish has a chance of being the big fish because it doesn't have to rely on any other fish in its own pond. again, if we need to class anything, we need to class team state. and don't get me started on crowning our champion based on the individual tournament. Indian Creek darn near scored the most points and are you going to tell me they are the best or 2nd best TEAM in the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So define prosper? Someone earlier posted that baskeball sells out Conseco. Attendance has died for baskeball since the class system. They moved the finals to the hoosier dome and sold out 42,000 uner a one class system!! Now you are lucky to get 8,000 to 9,000 per session. I have good friend who is a baskeball coach and he said " he likes the fact that his small school has a better chance to advance but it has killed the attendance through the tourney. It's just not the same" :'( The question would be are you arguing for wrestler skill development or improving wrestling attendance numbers. My prosper was in reference to the slow growth of the talent of wrestling at all levels. The attendance issue is a different issue to tackle based on the public understanding, general publicity, and public perception of the sport beyond the meet regulars (family, close friends, old wrestlers). This will also be a very slow growth process to reach the levels other states have. Obviously, the quick approach to fixing attendance is just to over class the individual side of the state. That would easily raise attendance by causing more family members, close friends, and old wrestlers to attend because more individuals made it to state. This doesn't work as much in basketball because of the limited roster and 2 teams per class situation that occurs in state. I'd much rather see the wrestling ability increase in some way then find ways to slowly improve the attendance to greater numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestling guru Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Team state needs to be classed, but first we got to keep it.... pack the stands ladies and gents, im pretty sure mishawaka won the "coaches trophy" like 5 years in a row.. only two team titles out of that 5 so i am pretty sure teams like crown point and york town are liking the team state... it gives a reason for coaches to promote wrestling and make the semi kids important because they are just as important as the stud on there team... it is stupid to work with your 3 best kids and say screw the rest because they dont have a chance to win, and then win a title that way... think about being that average kid in the stands at individual state in your street clothes it is just announced "your school won" how important do you feel? other then being a dummy how important are they to the winning of a title in that fassion... I think getting rid of it will hurt our sport, how would it help promote wrestling and make it grow if your an average wrestler and your only use is to get beat up by joe smith everyday trying to make hium better???? It will cut the numbers.. and the "little schools" will have even "smaller numbers".. if it was classed every team would feel they have a chance and would be super exciting.. imagine how much money the state would get also haveing 24 teams (just an idea) competing all day 3 classes... i have seen a state north of us have state and it was FRICKEN EXCITING... it is awesome and should not be dismissed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So Howe would have been a 4 timer in a class system. He wouldn't have wrestled Humphrey his freshman year. Do you think he would have gotten a better schollarship? Cody Phillips would be a 3 timer right now. Do you think that would make him a better wrestler? ??? All a class system would do is water down the tourney. You would have some wrestlers get al the way to semi-state and maybe only wrestle 2 or 3 actual the matches do to forfeits. It comes down to this its man on man either you make the grade or you don't! Next door in Ohio do you really think it mattered what class David Taylor wrestled in? Me either ;D Howe wasn't recruited because of his in-state successes. Howe was a top recruit due to his performances at Fargo and other national tournaments. The single class system did NOTHING for him as he was maybe pushed two times his last three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 This is also the approximatly the same numbers as the total population of the schools. 75% of kids go to big schools, 25% go to small schools. In many people's opinions (mine included) random talent distribution would say that if 75% of the kids go to big schools than 75% of the qualifiers should be from big schools, thus the 25% of kids who make it from small schools is exactally what a random sample would produce, thus showing no correlation to some unfair advantage that big school kids have. Y2 and many others who support class feel that since 50% of the wrestlers entered in the tournament are from small schools and 50% from big schools that the number of qualifiers from both should be 50%. In my opinion this is skewing the stats because it does not take into account the fact that 75% of the total population go to big schools and 25% go to small schools so in many's opinion using the same data this 75/25 ratio is what you would be expected to get. In other words if you just randomly took kids from these two populations 75% of the time the more naturaly talented kids would come from big schools. So you are saying small schools should suck and shouldn't get kids to state because of their size? Are you saying small schools shouldn't be able to compete and its completely correct for them to be the doormats of the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So define prosper? Someone earlier posted that baskeball sells out Conseco. Attendance has died for baskeball since the class system. They moved the finals to the hoosier dome and sold out 42,000 uner a one class system!! Now you are lucky to get 8,000 to 9,000 per session. I have good friend who is a baskeball coach and he said " he likes the fact that his small school has a better chance to advance but it has killed the attendance through the tourney. It's just not the same" :'( Basketball attendance was dropping drastically before classes were introduced. The finals attendance went from 61,000 in 1992 to 41,000 in 1996. Not sure where you are getting the 8-9000 per session now, but they are selling about 15,000 tickets per session. http://pastbb.homestead.com/files/boyschart.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler60160 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 By the list posted. 1997 55,142 attendance. Class started 1998, attendance 29,189. Unless I am reading that wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 By the list posted. 1997 55,142 attendance. Class started 1998, attendance 29,189. Unless I am reading that wrong. My memory is a little fuzzy from 1997, but I would suspect the sudden surge of 14K fans was because it was announced it would be the last year of single class basketball. I would suspect the sharp decline of 35,000 in attendance from 1990-1996 was a big reason for the change. When you lose almost half of your fans in 6 years it calls for some changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So you are saying small schools should suck and shouldn't get kids to state because of their size? Are you saying small schools shouldn't be able to compete and its completely correct for them to be the doormats of the state? I am saying that the best kids should make it to state regaurdless of size. It is the state tournament, it is meant to be something that showccases the best kids. At the end of the day that is what happens the best man wins. Like I have said before when you have two guys who wrestle eachother, same mat same rules, that is about as fair as you can get. The team side is different as it takes fourteen guys not one. Small schools are not the "doormats' of the state their indivduals have the same chance as everyone elses it is just that a bigger school is more likely to have more top level kids, that does not mean it is unfair, its just the likelyhood of what will happen. What would be unfair in my opinion is forcing top level kids at small schools to wrestle in an inferior tournament. If smaller schools are the"doormats" of wrestling then you are saying that they would need their own tounrnament between all of the "doormats" thus they would be competing in an inferior tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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