realwrastler160 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 realwrastler160: theckman has just calmly given his opinion. Although you disagree, you surely don't mean what you posted. Knura had a great run through the tournament, finishing off a great year. Whether it was a bad call or not doesn't diminish that. He'll be back next year, and better for it . . . Its a movie quote i was just joking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU90 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I'm not sure if it was a bad call or not, I couldn't see from where I was at. But I've always felt that if you put yourself in a position to let the ref decide the match, you have no one to blame but yourself. Knura did almost nothing offensively this whole match, then with 5 seconds left he decides to take a shot off the whistle. Had he had any offense at all during this match, I might feel sorry for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra6 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I'm not sure if it was a bad call or not, I couldn't see from where I was at. But I've always felt that if you put yourself in a position to let the ref decide the match, you have no one to blame but yourself. Knura did almost nothing offensively this whole match, then with 5 seconds left he decides to take a shot off the whistle. Had he had any offense at all during this match, I might feel sorry for him. Are you serious? Wow! You shouldnt be saying something like that! Im sure Hassman had a game plan for him an Knura followed it to the exact point! If anybody remembers Lentz killed Knura at the Calumet 10-2! And then Knura gets a takedown with seconds left and gets a crappy locking hands call! Dont take anything away from Knura at all a soph against a Senior who has already been there and done it I think the match should have gone to OT and let them wrestle ref please dont take away a kids chance of being in the state finals! That ref gets a booooo from me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGUOC79 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Are you serious? Wow! You shouldnt be saying something like that! Im sure Hassman had a game plan for him an Knura followed it to the exact point! If anybody remembers Lentz killed Knura at the Calumet 10-2! And then Knura gets a takedown with seconds left and gets a crappy locking hands call! Dont take anything away from Knura at all a soph against a Senior who has already been there and done it I think the match should have gone to OT and let them wrestle ref please dont take away a kids chance of being in the state finals! That ref gets a booooo from me! COuldn't of said it any better. In the FInals I though, Lentz was wrestling pretty good, and CLeveland was the one who was taking the non-aggressive track, almost cost him the match..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 If it would have been called 10 seconds into the match it should be called with 2 seconds left. I dont think the rules change as time goes by in the match. I think there was several matches where the wrestlers were to passive, but it is up to them and their coaches to come up with a strategy to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Campbell Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Knura...Wow! Proof that it's all about how you wrestle on a given day, or weekend in this case! He stepped it up and put on a good show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU90 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Are you serious? Wow! You shouldnt be saying something like that! Im sure Hassman had a game plan for him an Knura followed it to the exact point! If anybody remembers Lentz killed Knura at the Calumet 10-2! And then Knura gets a takedown with seconds left and gets a crappy locking hands call! Dont take anything away from Knura at all a soph against a Senior who has already been there and done it I think the match should have gone to OT and let them wrestle ref please dont take away a kids chance of being in the state finals! That ref gets a booooo from me! Yes I am serious. What I said is an opinion, and you can't tell me I can't have an opinion on a message board, which is the whole point of this type of forum, to express your opinions. I said a few things: 1. "I don't know if it was a bad call..." I couldn't see if it was a legitimate call from where I was. I tried to go back and watch the replay on broadcastsport.net, and it's not available. I didn't even dispute if it was a bad call or not, and for the sake of argument, I'll agree with you and say it was. 2. I said I don't feel sorry for a wrestler who does nothing offensively for an entire match, and doesn't get a call to go his way at the buzzer. That's my opinion, I am free to have it. I prefer aggressive wrestling, and quite frankly didn't see much of it in this match. Please point me to a video replay to this match and show me where I am wrong, and that I missed numerous offensive moves by Knura. As I recall, in the last period, There where times that Lenzt stood in the center of the mat, and waited for Knura to even come to him. I recall thinking that Knura was making absolutely no effort to push the action, so much so that Lentz could stand there and not even risk a stalling call. I also think Lentz didn't wrestle very aggressively in the match, he only did enough to win, and it almost cost him the match. Had the call went against Lentz, I would not have felt sorry for him either, I thought had he wrestled more agressively, that he would have had a big lead and wouldn't have to worry about a ref's call. Once again, this is my opinion. You stated "Hasseman had a game plan for him and Knura followed it..." I don't know if this is true, but if the gameplan was to stall until time is almost out and take a last second shot, then this does not change my position any. This might even be a good strategy. But once again, if that is your strategy, then I don't feel sorry for you if you use it and a call doesn't go your way. Finally, you state "don't take anything away from Knura..." Aren't your comments taking something away from Lentz? Isn't that what anyone who questions a refs call does, take something away from the winner? So is it ok for you to dimininish Lentz's victory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrer121 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yes I am serious. What I said is an opinion, and you can't tell me I can't have an opinion on a message board, which is the whole point of this type of forum, to express your opinions. I said a few things: 1. "I don't know if it was a bad call..." I couldn't see if it was a legitimate call from where I was. I tried to go back and watch the replay on broadcastsport.net, and it's not available. I didn't even dispute if it was a bad call or not, and for the sake of argument, I'll agree with you and say it was. 2. I said I don't feel sorry for a wrestler who does nothing offensively for an entire match, and doesn't get a call to go his way at the buzzer. That's my opinion, I am free to have it. I prefer aggressive wrestling, and quite frankly didn't see much of it in this match. Please point me to a video replay to this match and show me where I am wrong, and that I missed numerous offensive moves by Knura. As I recall, in the last period, There where times that Lenzt stood in the center of the mat, and waited for Knura to even come to him. I recall thinking that Knura was making absolutely no effort to push the action, so much so that Lentz could stand there and not even risk a stalling call. I also think Lentz didn't wrestle very aggressively in the match, he only did enough to win, and it almost cost him the match. Had the call went against Lentz, I would not have felt sorry for him either, I thought had he wrestled more agressively, that he would have had a big lead and wouldn't have to worry about a ref's call. Once again, this is my opinion. You stated "Hasseman had a game plan for him and Knura followed it..." I don't know if this is true, but if the gameplan was to stall until time is almost out and take a last second shot, then this does not change my position any. This might even be a good strategy. But once again, if that is your strategy, then I don't feel sorry for you if you use it and a call doesn't go your way. Finally, you state "don't take anything away from Knura..." Aren't your comments taking something away from Lentz? Isn't that what anyone who questions a refs call does, take something away from the winner? So is it ok for you to dimininish Lentz's victory? I dont really think that you can say he did nothing offenseive in the match his style is to dig underh hooks and wrestle from there. any time he tried to do that lents backed right out of it. As for the call the ref is suposed to be in front of the wrestlers to signal when he has rewarded them with a takedown. the ref who is not a bad ref was reminded of that after the match. Kunra still had a great tourney and if the kid would just open up and shoot Im not real sure as long as sliga stays at 189 if he will be stoped next year. but i felt in a lot of matches there wasnt a lot of action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern mole Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Carrer 121, did you talk to the ref after the match? How can you say " As for the call the ref is suposed to be in front of the wrestlers to signal when he has rewarded them with a takedown. the ref who is not a bad ref was reminded of that after the match. The Fanklin kid did a double leg blast from the starting position... how can you get infront of 430 pounds. The rule book nevers says you need to be infront of the action. It says you need to be in position to call the match. The Ref went with the action and called a takedown as soon as the Knura had control. It was a good call. I heard the takedown call from the scoretable. Knura never unlocked his hands after the awarding of the takedown. He still had them locked when the horn went off. As I was setting at the scorestable the ref was never reminded after the match about being in front of them. I remember two people coming up to him. One was Bobby Cox and the other was an old time ref and both of them told him that he made that right call. The assistant ref said he was ready to call lock hands too but the ref called it a second before he did. Rules are rules. It doesn't matter if it is 1 minute into the match or 2 seconds left on the clock. If you don't want him to call the lock hands then he should not call the takedown with 4 seconds to go in the match. You can not get one call your way and not expect the other call to be made against you. How do you know that the Mish. wrestler would not have gotten away if Knura did not have his hands locked around both legs. Another ref overheard Knura tell his coach that he thought he had 5 second to release his hands after a takedown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I dont really think that you can say he did nothing offenseive in the match his style is to dig underh hooks and wrestle from there. any time he tried to do that lents backed right out of it. As for the call the ref is suposed to be in front of the wrestlers to signal when he has rewarded them with a takedown. the ref who is not a bad ref was reminded of that after the match. Kunra still had a great tourney and if the kid would just open up and shoot Im not real sure as long as sliga stays at 189 if he will be stoped next year. but i felt in a lot of matches there wasnt a lot of action Whose rule book are you reading? Where does it say a ref has to be in front of the wrestlers to award anything? If that were true, only about half of the points that were earned would ever be awarded. And who reminded the ref of that after the match? Apparently, Southern Mole was at the table and heard what happened. Can you say the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrer121 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 just going on what a very high ranking ref told some people thats all I am saying and what is reaction time if there is 4.5 seconds left and you get a takedown when the clock starts is there really enough reaction time because the rule book does state reaction time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrer121 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Whose rule book are you reading? Where does it say a ref has to be in front of the wrestlers to award anything? If that were true, only about half of the points that were earned would ever be awarded. And who reminded the ref of that after the match? Apparently, Southern Mole was at the table and heard what happened. Can you say the same thing? never said that it says it in the rule book you had to be but as an offical thats what you are taught from what Ive been tols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 They used to tell us old officials that reaction time can be from a split second up to 2 seconds. It depends on the situation. Does the rule book say something different about it now? And I'm not sure "a very high ranking ref" should be questioning another ref without knowing all the facts. If he didn't talk to the mat official, then he most certainly didn't know all the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 never said that it says it in the rule book you had to be but as an offical thats what you are taught from what Ive been tols I think you've been fed a line of hogwash. How can an official always be in front of wrestlers to award points? It also used to say in the rule book that the official shall use a visual hand count when possible. That just means if can, he will. However, he can start the nearfall count mentally while getting into a better position. Think I'll get a copy of the state finals and see how many times officials are in front wrestlers when they award points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts