Coach McCormick Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 There have been a couple of coaches contact me regarding our guidelines for 8th graders to participate in this event. I could type a ten page justification letter, and in the end, we would never be able to please everyone on this issue. The intent for this event is to offer "true" middle school competition for those involved. The tricky part comes in defining the word "true." I certainly understand that there are 15 year old eighth graders across the state. This issue touches more on the semantics of whether a youngster is "old" or "young" for their grade level. In the end I had to make a decision based on what I felt was appropriate for the majority of the kids who will be attending, not based on accommodating the much smaller number of youngsters who are "old" for their grade level. In formulating our guidelines I did do a fair amount of research in attempting to establish a reasonable cut-off date for 8th graders. I spoke with middle school administrators on what they felt was a typical 8th grade age. I also looked at actual wrestlers' ages and birth dates. Finally, I spoke with ISWA staff members to get their thoughts on the matter. After retrieving, tabulating and analyzing all of this information, I believe we have established a fair age range for this event. To see the age requirements, as well as all other event guidelines, you can click on our tournament logo which can be found throughout the Indianamat website. Complete tournament information will appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Trent, I find this hard to believe that my son who has never failed a grade and we did not hold back is unable to wrestle in this tournament. He should not be punished because of the state of Indiana cut off date. Every single child who is that age will have this problem. It was the cut-off date when he started school and was out of our control. We have several true eigth graders who are unable to wrestle because you feel the need to trump what Indiana regulations were for that year. Therefore Lowell Middle School will not participate unless the dates change. We wont punish students who fell into the July 1st 1995 cutoff. Ken Hughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I thought the age requirement was a little weird to so I checked out AAU and USA middle school nation duals age requirements and both are you can not be 16 the same year as the tournament so why would this tournament only be 15 or maybe i am just reading it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Maybe its my public school education but after reading it again you can only be 14 and under, wont be much of a State Middle School Team Dual. More like a JV Middle school Dual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpd096 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Coach Hughes, I understand your point and you have a right to be upset...we have two quality wrestlers who have never been held back or flunked and are "true" 8th graders but will not be able to participate? I do know that Coach McCormick is a very reasonable coach and will take this under advisement and perhaps take a 2nd look at this and decide to do what is right for the kids...it is never too late "to do the right thing". When these boys started school the cut-off was different so now they are penalized for it? Think about it, you are a kid who started school, advanced through the grades every year just like everyone else and all of sudden you want to attend a team tournament as an 8th grader with your classmates and you can't because of this???? Coach McCormick, I know you can reconsider this and come up with a viable solution. --Coach Tucker, Lowell Wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 So just to be clear is the cut off ages different than for the individual Middle school state tournament held at New Castle? If so, couldn't they both be made the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 They are sponsored by two different entities. The IHSWCA Middle School State is sponsored by the IHSWCA and acts as a qualifier for the National Middle School Duals held in Illinois. We base the upper age limit on what they will allow in that event with the caveat that the wreslter not be a repeat 8th grader. The Team Duals are sponsored by the Yorktown Wrestling Club. They may choose to use whatever age requirement they desire, and whatever age requirement makes the most sense for their tournament. As long as the age requirement is spelled out ahead of time it is fair to all. I know from experience with the IHSWCA Middle School State that their will always be people feeling that any age requirement is not fair. If it is 16 then someone will want an exception becasue their child is one day past the limit...and then two days...and so on. With no authority governing Middle School Wrestling the rules are normally set by the host school, or whoever is sponsoring the event. I have not really looked at the weight classes for Yorktown's Dual Tournament, but there is no rule that determines what they should be just like there is not a rule for the IHSWCA MS State. Middle School is such that if the host shcool can get the Official to call it they can make any rule modification they desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 It stinks because people will say, "if I had all my 8th graders" or "congrats on your 14 and under trophy." There is a large number of first year cadets that will not be eligible. If there had to be an age requirement why isn't that used? Why does there have to be an age requirement at all? Schools do that for you. At my school they move kids up if they are too old. Trent, in your post, I didn't see a reason for the age requirement. Who could argue with any middle school kid that has not repeated 8th grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinwrestlersmom Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Sorry but I agree with it. I wouldn't want my 6th grader wrestling a first year cadet. There is a huge difference between a 12 year old and a 15 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 It stinks because people will say, "if I had all my 8th graders" or "congrats on your 14 and under trophy." There will always be excuses that people will make. This is the first year for this event, and it is a start. Eventhough it is labeled as the Middle School State Dual Championships there will be numerous teams, one of which may well be the best Middle School Team in the State, that will not be there for various good reasons. Reasons that some might say make the tournament unfair to them. That does not diminish the event. There will be good teams there and good competition. For someone to walk away from this tournament thinking they are the best MS Team in the state may be a bit far fetched, but they should certainly feel that they have accopmplished something they can be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 I do appreciate the feedback on the age requirement issue for our middle school team event. When our club designed this event, I suspicioned this issue would arise. As Rex noted, there is no governing body over middle school athletics, so it is tricky to find a specific date which fairly balances athletic competition at this age group. In reading, and listening, to those people's comments who might be interested in attending this event, I have picked up several key pieces of information that might point to a better age requirement guideline. I would reiterate that in the end there will be no good date for everyone, and someone will be "put out" by the final age cut-off for one reason or another. As Coach Tucker pointed out, it is not too late to adjust the guidelines for this event, if it is indeed in the best interest of the kids. Mind you, we are talking about a shift of one month in the age requirement for this event based on the following information. Three people have pointed out to me that in past years the Department of Education's "suggested" start date for youngsters entering kindergarten has alternated between August 1 and July 1 depending on the DOE's ever-changing vision. It has been explained to me that there will indeed be a good number of 8th graders who legitimately will turn 15 in the month of July which would prohibit them from competing in this event. I believe through positive dialogue I can say it would be in the best interest of the kids (and teams) across the state to adjust this age requirement for this event. I don't think anyone would be gaining an unfair advantage by adjusting this requirement by one month, and student-athletes who were caught in this academic "start date" issue will not be punished. NEW AGE GUIDELINES A participant in Yorktown's Middle School Dual Meet State Championships must be in the 6th, 7th and 8th grade AND cannot turn 15 before July 1, 2010 to be eligible to compete in this middle school event. I hope this adjustment strikes a reasonable balance for student-athletes who are on the "age bubble." Again, I thank those individuals who have provided positive feedback on a very sensitive issue. Coaches are encouraged to read over all of the guidelines for this event. There is very specific paperwork that coaches will be required to provide at registration for this event. If this paperwork is not provided for a wrestler (team), they will not be permitted to compete at this event. I would hate for someone to drive across the state to compete in this event and not have the required paperwork, but these requirements will be enforced. Coach McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellrs Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 twinwrestlers mom- that can happen in any middle school tournament. I have a 6th grader also and I am sure he will hit a few 8th grade 15 year olds this year. The point of this debate was that the MS dual tournament was different than other Middle School guidelines. Coach McCormick- changing the guideline does not affect me in any way since my son's team is not participating. However, as an unbiased observer, I would like to send you a big Kudos for considering the point of view of others and acting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Trent, Sorry I made a mistake the cut off for eight graders is June 1,1995 The cut off for seventh graders is July1,1996. I know this because Kenny was born 6-17-95 and is one of the oldest kids in his class and Drew was born 6-23-97 and is one of the youngest kids in his class. They are 2 years and 6 days apart but only one grade apart due to the changes by the state. Thanks, Ken Hughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpd096 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Coach McCormick: Your decision to abide by the Department of Education (DOE) age guidelines for 8th graders (June 1st) is to be commended... Coach Peck is correct, it is your tournament, you can choose any criteria you want...but I know you are always looking for a fair and equitable solution to any problem. With that said, it only makes sense to choose the DOE guidelines because it provides a "ready made" cut-off for the middle schoolers. The cut-off for this current 8th grade class in Indiana was June 1st. (back when they started school) I agree that there will always be people who are upset with a chosen cut-off; the key here is..."the kids"...and I feel that you are really wanting what's best for them regardless of how the parents feel, etc. Thanks for looking into this issue and researching the DOE dates for all of the current grades in middle school. ---Coach Tucker, Lowell Wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianmom Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I thought the age requirement was a little weird to so I checked out AAU and USA middle school nation duals age requirements and both are you can not be 16 the same year as the tournament so why would this tournament only be 15 or maybe i am just reading it wrong. Last year my son ran in an AAU Cross Country National Meet. His birthday is in December. He was 13 at the time of the race, but because he turned 14 during the year, he had to run with the 14 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Ken, Will Lowell now be participating since the dates have been changed? Lowell has a great MS program and I am sure they will enhance the tournament greatly if they do attend!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Aj, Yes if the date is june 1 we will that was the cut off then. we are looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpd096 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Indiana Department of Eduction (IDOE) cut-off for the current 8th grade class was June 1st. In essence, this means that these kids are Legitimate 8th graders i.e. not held back, just normal kids who enrolled in school when they started as little tykes and now are in 8th grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Formidable Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I?m not certain that I understand the undue concerns over liability. If you are not travelling in a school owned (operated, etc.) vehicle and/or accepting athletic department monies, why worry? For many of us it will simply involve wrangling 18-20 wrestlers with $20 for the day and a third as many parent volunteers and their vehicles. That should suffice to cover the entry, food and fuel. That?s a bargain by today?s standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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