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Wow... couldn't disagree more strongly. I can tell you for certain that a great number of greco techniques/moves are usable in folkstyle. I would even go as far to say IMO if you have wrestlers in the upper weights you would be doing them a huge disservice by not requiring them to wrestle greco. As far as folkstyle being the only game in town.. that is not true either and some very dedicated people are working very hard to promote and increase participation in freestyle and greco in this state to help improve the overall wrestling skills of Indiana wrestlers.

Excellent points! Stalling is one of the reasons my sons would much rather wrestle freestyle and greco instead of folkstyle and believe it is much more fun and exciting to watch and participate in freestyle and greco.

As fairly new transplants to Indiana I couldn't be more disappointed with the negative comments about freestyle wrestling. (And by default greco) Since coming to this state we have noticed the dramatic difference in freestyle and greco overall participation and what seems a lacking of understanding about freeestyle and greco wrestling in general. The lack of participation shows itself most in the low placing of Indiana wrestling in freestyle and greco at a national level compared to how well Indiana does in folkstyle nationals. I would agree that more ref training needs to be done but so does coaching and parent an wrestler awareness of the sport. It's my belief that not having these extra and varied wrestling skills learned in freestyle and greco is one of the reasons why Indiana high school folkstyle wrestling will not be able to break into the top 10 nationally. While some freestyle & greco moves are not allowed in folkstlye most are allowed. While a freestyle/greco scoring move may not score points in folkstyle those freestyle/greco moves may still put the wrestler in a position to score when combined with a following traditional folkstyle move. Why would anyone want to have their wrestlers have less wrestling tools in their wrestling "toolbox" I can't understand. My 3 sons have always wrestled all 3 styles and I strongly urge all wrestlers to participate in all 3 styles of wrestling.

Both of the Chapple brothers from Penn will be there and so will few more Penn wrestlers but I'm not certain yet which other ones.

We were here both days and all 3 styles of wrestling. Being able to wrestle all 3 styles at 1 tourney was a blast for my sons.

No, wasn't Varner.. Varner wrestled at 112. By watching the match do you mean the broadcast tape that was filmed from the far upper corner of the event? A closer view revealed a much closer match. I also saw the match in person... from a close vantage point.... Have watched it over and over. By pushing the pace do you mean the stepping a giant step back, doing 3 hops in place and then getting back into a wrestling stance? (That was done by Binion several times in that match and in many of his matches I have watched during the season.) I would call that stalling. Maybe you mean the running straight backwards off the mat Binion did several times before finally getting the stalling call he received. I would also call that stalling. Binion won a few very close scrambles... the other wrestler didn't get credit for a obvious takedown... Binion got a few takedowns and ran backwards off the mat when in trouble. Many things in that match were much closer then the score showed and had the stalling call come sooner for running backwards off the mat. None the less... Binion lost by being pinned... and it was no "quick" pin or "quick tap". He was held on his back for more then 10 seconds. Again, not a criticism against Binion, he is a good wrestler, but where's the love for the wrestler who continues to wrestle and wins by pin no matter what the score or time left in a match? In case you didn't notice Binion never won against the Penn wrestler who pinned him during his path to state. ;D To return back to the topic of this thread.... I refer to my previous post in this thread.

Wow, still hearing people commenting about the Binion match? Did you actually see that match? The match was much closer then the score showed. The same wrestler who beat Binion came from far behind to pin 4 or 5 other wrestlers this season. (Including at least 1 other top 10 ranked wrestler - At least was ranked top 10 before losing by being pinned). Call it a fluke if you like when it happens 1 time. I don't call it a fluke when the same wrestler is able to win despite being far behind in a match score over and over again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As to the thread topic.... Mishawaka H.S. has a taleted team of wrestlers and coaches. Nationally, Mish. is probably about right at 19. However, Mishawaka is a long way from a top 10 national team. In a team dual Mishawaka vs. #1 ranked Apple Valley of Minnesota... Mishawaka would be lucky to not be shut out. This is not a slam against Mishawaka....(or against Indiana) It is because of the number of wrestlers on each team ranked at a national level in all aspects of wrestling.... (Folkstyle, Freestyle, Greco) Indiana as a state has a strong Folkstyle program... Until Indiana wrestling, as a state, makes a stronger commitment to all 3 wrestling styles I can't see a Indiana h.s. team breaking into the top 10 nationally. Here are a few stats from last season at USA nationals for freestyle and greco in Fargo. Indiana State Team Juniors - Freestyle - 17th Greco - 36th Cadets - Freestyle - 17th Greco - 31st ***Since I picked a comparison of a Minnesota H.S. vs Mishawaka here are the Minnesota team results too...*** Minnesota State Team Juniors - Freestyle - 2nd Greco - 3rd Cadets - Freestyle - 5th Greco - 2nd My question would be.... What are we going to do to make Indiana freestyle and greco wrestling stronger?

Our family had experience with class wrestling in another state and after nearly a full season here without class wrestling I honestly think it really doesn't matter whether a state had a class system or not. I think what is important is the promotion of wrestling as a sport. (All areas of wrestling folkstyle, freestyle & greco.) I think a class/non class battle would be a waste of energy and money. Instead, we as a wrestling community should be trying to increase off season training opportunities and having more tourneys and gaining more wrestlers as the focus of our goals.

The problem with judgement calls is that they can be so very subjective. A potential slam call could come from a horizontal lift of 1 foot high with such a vague definition. Couldn't a hard blast double be considered a slam if the wrestler's feet were taken off the mat during the blast double? A safe return to the mat does not mean it has to be a slow return does it? I have seen some a few obvious attempts at injury go uncalled (glad it has only been a few) and a few very ridiculous calls of a slam where a lift or throw was in no way dangerous to the wrestler nor did it cause even momentary injury. (I have seen a ref who has called hip tosses a slam because the wrestler was not set gently down onto the mat.) (Sigh) I am not saying slams should not be called because wrestler safety is extremely important but a clearer definition should be made of what is a slam.

And so that means what? Dan Gable's girls didn't wrestle so you think girls should be banned from wrestling? Sigh... :

The problem with this statement is that you seem to be implying there is something sexual about wrestling if you think the guy is trying to "grope" the girl during a wrestling match... and if you think that's the case why is it okay for "some sweaty boy grubbing his paws all over" each other be okay? If you think wrestling is sexual then why aren't you against to underage boys doing it on the mat in front of a cheering crowd? If as a parent you don't want your child to wrestle that's up to you. In my opinion... a confident female with self defense skills is a good thing & there is nothing sexual happening during a high school wrestling match... (except perhaps in some folks minds)

I think it is wonderful that high school wrestling is not "boys wrestling". The criteria for a wrestler being on a high school team is and should be wrestling ability. The females on high school varsity teams have that ability or they wouldn't be there. The same sorry excuses people give for not wanting females to wrestle were used when I was a kid against girls playing baseball or football, against females being firemen, policemen or doctors etc. or with people of color being able to do similar activities. Isn't it funny how when that skilled female or a person of color ends up saving that biased person's loved one's life how those ignorant, biased opinions seem to fall by the wayside. I am proud as Americans we live in a place where discrimination by gender, skin color and religion is not allowed.

Imagine the hours that would take! Seriously, this is a great tool to have!

In Minnesota last season a female wrestler named Elissa Reinsma of Fulda/Murray County Central wrestled at the state tourney. (She did not place.) This season she is currently ranked 5th in class AA in Minnesota at 103.

We have only had a short time to get to know Mike and his family. He has truly been a hard working & inspirational wrestler. Mike and his family are all a class act group of people. We are deeply saddened that Mike can't continue wrestling but we are grateful he will still be able to be a part of the Penn team.

Go to where the athletes are- This helps you get to know the parents and athletes and to help get their attention towards wrestling. You are doing this already by being involved with the football team. Because they share many of the same skills make sure to let athletes and parents know that being a wrestler can help make the athlete a better football player. Often overlooked is the cross country running team and they can be a great source for lighter athletes and all will have the great cardio needed for wrestling. Don't forget to look for the smaller athletes! Check with gym teachers and ask about great athletes who are smaller in size. Wrestling is one of the few sports that a small athlete can compete against someone their own size! Be involved with the youth program to create a natural feeder program to the middle and high school team. Make sure your current athletes get noticed for their successes in the school announcements, paper and in local newspaper if possible. Letting the kids know about a good chance to earn a varsity letter in wrestling on a smaller team is a great point! Make it a mission for each of your current wrestlers to bring at least 2 of their friends to come out and try wrestling.

Football and wrestling share many useful skills and so those sports work well in combination. I also have noticed cross country running and wrestling combine well as sport choices because of the cardio needed for both sports. However, a gifted athlete, like those rare athletes who are good at every sport they play, tend to be an exception to the rule. While it is possible to play multiple sports and be successful in all of them, IMO the average athlete is much more likely to reach a higher level of success (elite level) by specializing in 1 or 2 sports. The reason why is because of the time needed to learn and master the fine points and skills used in any sport to reach the elite level. The "10,000 hour rule for becoming an expert" explains this theory.

At 125 at NIC tourney Chapple (Penn) won by pin vs. Hartman (Clay) Chapple won Pool A at 125

We were very pleased at how well this tourney was run and how they kept the action moving. Great job by the crew today at the NIC! Some of the team scores were a bit lopsided but there were some exciting individual matches.

How about Mishawaka fans giving us all a break and quit whining about Binion losing that match. I have seen many wrestlers over the years lose a match they were ahead on points. A loss is still a loss, getting pinned is still getting pinned. It wasn't a "quick" pin either. Binion lost the scramble after the attempted double, tried for a good amount of time to roll out or escape and couldn't and got pinned. This is why we they wrestle the matches and don't just hand out wins by what others "think" will or should happen. How about giving some credit to the other wrestler for the pin.

Not having a feeder system would cripple and High School program. This is a area where wrestler support from other parts of the state may be useful in helping to change the minds of the administrators in charge in the Ft. Wayne area. Is anyone currently working on helping to change the loss of the middle school program in the Ft. Wayne area?

During this season I have noticed a very large difference in the quality of the referees skills. I know the refs have a tough job, no one is perfect and many calls are judgement calls.... but it seems like (IMO) some ref's may need more training. How long is a referee trained and how much experience do they have refereeing before they are allowed to referee a H.S. match on their own?

Well stated!

Binion match was much closer then the score showed. A few close scrambles barely went Binion's way, some points on the edge of the mat weren't awarded to the other wrestler, then Binion got rolled and he also lost the scramble after the roll. (A good boxing analogy for that match would be - A good technical boxer got knocked out by a good knock out boxer.) At the end of that match the teams were only 3 or 6 points apart. Mishawaka Penn was supposed to be a blowout in Mishawaka's favor - it wasn't a blowout. Penn came into that match rated as 18th. The team dual that night showed just how underrated Penn was as a team at that point of the season. It really does show that certain teams match up better then others against each other depending on where each team's strong and weaker wrestlers are in the lineups.

Thank you for letting us know how he's doing. It's always scary seeing a wrestler down. Hope he can be back on the mat soon!