slice60

Does Yorktown get an assist?

3 hours ago, base said:

On another thread, Trackgopher confirmed that there will be scoring for the first round!  Not 100% sure it will include both advancement points AND activity points - but this will be a MAJOR wrinkle in the overall team scores.

 

For those schools with difficult 2nd round matches where you may lose a wrestler - now they have an opportunity to score points in the Friday night matchup.

 

I see this being a big boost for Crown Point - they have 5 #1 wrestlers coming in.  Although their 2nd round is very tough - their first round could net them a LOT of points especially if the activity points are counted. Each of the top teams now has 8 or 9 opportunities for another 4 points added to their team score.  This also will distance the teams bringing a lot of wrestlers from those with only a few good ones like Perry Meridian

I hope you are right because that's the way IT SHOULD BE. The State Finals tournament starts Friday night & ALL Team Scoring should start then too.

I would also like to see 6-minute Consolation matches at every stage of the tournament. It's so important to win that 3rd/4th place match in order to set yourself up for potential success the following week (ie. avoiding that 4 vs 1 matchup). Too many of those matches have a scoreless 1-minute 1st period. 

Kudos to the IHSAA for even producing this show. Do you remember the old days when you had to wait for days & know a coach or AD just to sneak a peak at the brackets each week?

I like Rakestraw in every sport he does. Is he a wrestling expert? No, but I challenge you to find any competent radio/tv host in the entire state who would be considered as a high school wrestling expert. As a comparison, the guy doing the Indiana SRN broadcast for the New Castle Semistate championship round was awful-- 1) he thought it was a blind draw for the state bracket & 2) he stated that the top 4 wrestlers did not technically qualify for state until they won in the preliminary round on Friday. WTF???!!!

113 at Southport may qualify as the most unusual bracket. 10 team field.

#1 seed Cottey (Perry) 27-0 State ranked 1 

#2 seed Glithero (Roncalli) 21-4 State ranked 15

#3 seed 0-15 freshman

#4 seed 0-12 freshman

6 Forfeits

Somebody's gonna get their hand raised for the 1st time in the 3rd place match. And maybe one of them can pull off a shocker in the Regional & punch their ticket to Semi-State with just 1 win.

Crowd was booing because they showed the replay & it sure looked intentional. Brewer ducked & the crown of his head went directly into his opponent's face with a lot of force. The ref immediately awarded 1 penalty point & I don't recall much of an argument from his coaches.

47 minutes ago, RaiderColfax said:

Jacked up scoring is an understatement. A team could have two champs and place no one else will be higher then a team who places all 14 8th place. Seems legit right?

Hypothetical situation:

Team A with 1 wrestler who wins by PIN in the Qtrs, loses in Semis & then wins by PIN in 3rd place match would finish with 15 points. 9 Pts for 3rd place + 2 Advancement Pts on Sat a.m. + 4 Bonus Pts for the 2 pins = 15.

Team B brings all 14 wrestlers to State & they all win by PIN on Friday night. But then they all lose in the Qtrs, Consolation Round, & 7th-8th place match. Each earns 1 Pt for 8th place = 14.

Team A (15 pts) is clearly better than Team B (14 pts), right?

I have been wondering same thing, SWINfan. Sure seems like they changed it up AGAIN & decided that Friday night winners do not get 2 Advancement Points either. Makes no sense to me. The State Finals competition started on Friday night but the IHSAA doesn't seem to acknowledge that.

If 2 teams (under this jacked-up scoring system) finish tied at the top but Team A had more wrestlers win than Team B on Friday, Team A is the better team. Seems like common sense to everyone except the people making these silly decisions which determine a state champion.

1 minute ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

One point advancement w no bonus points on Friday night. BBurg looking strong. Overachievers this year by a mile. Wide open. BBurg, EMD, Irish, CE. Harris losing hurts the Rebels big time. 4 horse race in my 3rd shift logic opinion. Let’s have a great Saturday. Revel or Patron Saint if you’re bored downtown this eve. 

Did they really change the Team Scoring AGAIN?

Last year, each Friday night winner got 2 Advancement Points + 1 Point for clinching 8th place. That's how Base summarized the scoring at the start of this thread. 

If this is true, why is the IHSAA continually making Team Scoring as silly as possible & WHY WOULD THE COACHES GIVE THEIR APPROVAL TO ANY OF THIS???

There are no Forfeits & no weak wrestlers at the State Finals. All Advancement Points & Bonus Points are hard earned in all 4 rounds & should count. Why don't the Coaches demand full Team Scoring at the State level?

Did they announce Team Scores at end of session? If so, did they count the 2-point Advancement or is Trackwrestling correct?

Trackwrestling is only giving 1 Team Point to winners so far. I thought tonight's winners all got 1 pt for 8th + 2 Advancement Points. Did they double down & screw up the team scoring even more by removing Friday night Adv Pts too?

It was my first time at New Castle. Didn't hear them give an attendance figure. I was impressed by the crowd size for the 1st 2 rounds. Got pretty empty in there at the end of the day.

I haven't been to the finals since it was at Market Square Arena. How packed does it get at BLF? Do you have to get there super early on Sat morning to grab a couple seats in club level?

This thread could have been about me. Lol. Somehow I found myself surrounded by very supportive Carmel moms during the 1st 2 rounds. But I kept my mouth shut while silently rooted for their opponents to prevail.

Both Roncalli & Cathedral have legit chances to win it all with 5 great wrestlers each.

When Roncalli's Mahan @170 found himself on his back early in the Quarterfinals against Kendrex of Mt Vernon, I said "That kid better pin him now while he's got the chance." But Mahan avoided the pin & then fought back from that 5-0 deficit to take the lead before ending it on a late pin. Then he won his final 2 matches by 1st round pin. 

If Kendrex had put him away, Mahan's season would have ended along with 0 team points. Instead, Mahan earned the maximum 24 team points to lead Roncalli to a slim 6.5pt victory over Cathedral.

1 hour ago, mikemorgan said:

152 Coleman vs Rodgers ticket round 

170 McClain and Wagner in same quarter bracket as well

Thank you-- not sure how I missed those.

So that means wrestlers from both Warren & Cathedral cannot advance to BLF in those 7 weight classes. 

7 hours ago, bbulldog152 said:

Also note that these formulas are made up before regionals are finalized so the ihsaa has know control where any of the wrestlers are going to end up. Some times upsets happen that could lead to a probable regional champion finishing 2nd or 3rd creating a "bad" draw for a regional champion. Not to mention if the ihsaa was going to purposely rig the brackets to help specific teams I don't think they would use their power to help a school like South Dearborn while there's numerous match ups between Warren Central and Cathedral on the way to making state therefore costing two contenders team points. Like others have said any "good" draw is luck. 

Decided to look at the "formula" pairings for the Perry Meridian #11 Regional. They are paired up with the No Montgomery #9 Regional in 6 classes (113, 120, 132, 170, 195, 285), the Pendleton Hts #10 Regional in 4 classes (106, 138, 160, 220) & the Richmond #12 Regional in 4 classes (126, 145, 152, 182).

That means that a top-notch program coming out of Perry (Warren Central-- Regional Champs) could square off in no more than 4 weight classes against the best team in the Pendleton Hts Regional (top ranked Cathedral-- Regional Champs). Guess what -- it is Warren vs Cathedral in the 1st round at all 4 possible classes.

(Mind blown!)

106 - WC 2nd Perry vs Cath 3rd Dickey

138 - WC 3rd Rowlett vs Cath 2nd Wilson

160 - WC 4th Taylor vs Cath 1st Slivka

220 WC 1st Mitchell vs Cath 4th Guhl

We need a math genius to tell us what are the odds of that happening.

(Plus, Bailey vs Beatty at 132 in likely in the Qtrfinals)

To me, there are no shenanigans with the IHSAA "formulas" because there are just too many moving parts. The Semistate draws are based on where you placed in the Regional plus there is some luck thrown in there too. For example, Warren's Taylor lost at the buzzer in the 160 semis last Saturday. He was just a few seconds away from clinching 2nd place at worst. Instead, he dropped down to 4th & now must wrestle Slivka right away.

It is just dumb/bad luck that Warren & Cathedral mirrored each other at all 4 of these weight classes.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but the "formula" is essentially a blind draw by the IHSAA. Essentially, they mix it up so that Regional 1 is paired up against Regionals 2, 3, 4 relatively evenly across the 14 brackets & so on. The Semistate brackets are determined before the Regionals are wrestled but those SS brackets are kept secret from the coaches.

So you may look at the SS bracket & feel that your school got hosed. If that happens, it's just bad luck in reality. Maybe wrestler #1 is paired up with a stud from Regional 2, wrestler #2 has a ticket-round match with a monster from Regional 3, etc.

Gavin Rose was on the main floor at PM Regional between sessions with a big cast on his leg propped up in a wheelchair. Clearly, it was as bad as feared.

In my opinion, the regional / semistate / state sites with 4 mats should assign mats based on the bracket. Then if 1 mat finishes early while the others are 2 or 3 behind, then you move a few of the big boys' matches to that mat. It's probably easier for the wrestlers to know which mat they will be on & just focus on where they're at. Plus, parents can be prepared & don't have to scamper all over the gym to get a good view & take pics.

I am almost certain 1st Available by TW was used at the Sect & Reg sites I went to. It was confusing for fans & some wrestlers too. At Perry last week, they had to switch out computers almost constantly during the 1st round as each of the mats experienced scoreboard/computer issues at some point. Because of these problems, the scoreboards sometimes showed the weight class, sometimes showed the match number & sometimes showed nothing at all. 

Perry Meridian kept having to switch computers for the scoreboard/clock. I think each of the 3 mats had delays at some point during the day. The PA guy said other sites were experiencing similar issues.

Maybe TrackWrestling's servers were overloaded & causing these problems? 

26 minutes ago, jlittlejohn said:

You are correct...

NFHS 2018-19 NFHS Wrestling Rules   Page 34  Rule 6.5.a.2...

...Errors involving the computation of match score must be corrected prior to the next match in which either wrestler competes. If the error necessitates additional wrestling, it must be corrected prior to the offended contestant leaving the mat area and prior to the start of the next match on that mat.

 

Being that this situation did not require any additional wrestling and if the score could be accurately computed to demonstrate that the technical fall had certainly been "earned" prior to any subsequent action by the defensive wrestler then this could have been corrected prior to either wrestler's next match.

As the initial post stated that the error was caught about 20 minutes after this match, you're saying that whoever made the decision (tournament director &/or refs) that the mistake could not be corrected was wrong too? Oh boy. That's not good.

Yes, the referee and the coach of the kid who got pinned should have caught this. But since you seem to disagree with anything I post, I'm sure you will disagree with this statement. If my opinion, anyone who is hired to be a scorekeeper for a tournament event should know the basic scorekeeping rules, including the rule for tech falls. If the deficit is 15, the match is over-- that's a rule, not a nuance of a rule.

The scorekeeper's JOB is to keep the correct score &, if necessary, ask for clarification from the ref in regards to scoring. Locked hands is not related to scoring. Your examples were silly.

Since the ref did not realize that the deficit had reached 15, the scorekeeper & timer should have called the ref to the table immediately after the pin was called to sort out what just happened. The scorekeeper shares the burden of getting things right. 

I was just pointing it out in case people printed brackets.

If the Perry Meridian AD or the coaches of the wrestlers impacted don't catch this, then they are not doing their job well.