wildcatcountry97

The question was ?single or double,? and Pop said he preferred the ole? ? Sag Headlock? because it resulted in more pins. I keenly pointed out that the ?Cradle? results in more pins. My point was the cradle will result in more pins than the sag headlock ? that is an actual NCAA statistic. However, I keep being told that Pop is a stats guy ? even though he refuses to share these mysterious statistics that show how effective the sag headlock is. (no disrespect to Karl- I usually like your posts.) Fabio- to your point ? One person hitting a move certainly does not make it ?science? in the statistical sense. This would be called anecdotal evidence, and while often valuable can always be an anomaly ? which means we cannot extrapolate any of these results. What we can compare is headlocks to cradles ? but that wasn?t the question. The question was single vs double ? which I said in my first post was a very valid ? interesting question.

Wow - some of these comments are really dumb! What 'Statistics' are you using for your statistical analysis of the 'Sag' Headlock? Regardless - simply because a high risk move leads to high reward doesn't mean it's your best option. This is like saying you should only invest in very risky stock for you 401 K because 'statistically' you can make a lot more money. The question of 'Single' vs 'Double' is a very good question for the forum. I would say it totally depends on the wrestler. If you are quick, powerful, and explosive - of course the double. If you are a finesse wrestler and good in the scramble - the single. - But I look forward to hearing what the rest of the board thinks. Pop - Why don't you try your 'sagging' headlock on J. Boroughs and see if the double or headlock is more effective. Incidentally the 'cradle' is the 'move' that most often leads to a pin in the NCAA tournament, statistically - more than a headlock.

What was the result of this - and all the hard work we put in voting? !

Of course I was SHOCKED when I heard a few months ago that Mike Zaddick was being kicked out of his coaching role after being with the Hawkeyes since '97 - Before half the people on this board were born. ] Not only this, but he's replaced by Ryan Morningstar?? I don't even recall him winning a Big 10 title - In addition, Poor Barry at Wisconsin - He can't keep anyone all of the sudden! - With Howe and Rutt going to Oklahoma and Pritzloff gone to Michigan. Any other suprising changes on the NCAA Scene besides all of this Duals talk ?

Interesting that Azevado and Cael and have almost exact opposite opinions. I think a true dual meet final could be exciting, but I sure don't want two watered-down events instead of one big national championship on ESPN. I also fail to see how this helps the small school at all ?

If I'm counting correctly - this is the 50th anniversary of the Midlands (Here is a good article about the tournament itself (although a few years old)- It mentions Tsirtsis as a rare high-schooler invitation) http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/3206 Is it a big deal that Iowa suddenly is not going to attend this year? suprised?

Are you in favor of the new National Duals Idea ? Please vote. Also - here are some coaches quotes ?I?m thrilled we?re trying to do things that put us in better position with the NCAA. ? If you go from one event to two events and it becomes successful, that?s 100 percent improvement. Where do you get that in? If you find out it isn?t going to fly and you go for it for a couple or three years and it doesn?t, then you can make the necessary change to improve it or you go back. If all of a sudden we find out we?ve got two watered-down events and it?s less than one good event, then you have to go back. But I have to put trust in the people who are actually working in that area, and that?s where I?m at. I want the sport to move forward.? ? Former Iowa coach Dan Gable ?I?m not sure where I stand. I think it?s going to happen and we?ve got to move forward and make the best of it.? ? Northern Iowa coach Doug Schwab ?Right now, it doesn?t seem like there?s a chance for anybody else to win it except for the upper-echelon teams, but I think in a dual meet format there will be a chance. Maybe I?m crazy. Don?t get me wrong, a program like Drexel University, we?re a long ways off. I don?t think we?re a long ways off from winning our conference, though, and if we won our conference and I go to my athletic department ? a very pro-basketball athletic department ? and say ?Our team qualified for the national tournament, I think that would be a big deal to them.? ? Drexel coach Matt Azevedo ?We?ve tried the status quo the last 20 years. We?ve tried the status quo for the last 160 or 170 dropped programs. That doesn?t work. That?s the only thing we know ? doing the same thing doesn?t work. This can?t hurt. ? If it was the other way around right now, if we had a national title determined by a National Dual meet championship do you think there would be a single person in this country, if we wanted to change it the other way, would anybody consider that? No way.? ? Cornell coach Rob Koll ?Before you make a huge move like that, you need to do some research and base your risk on fact instead of hopes and thinking you wave a magic wand and everything?s going to be perfect now. It seemed like that was the mentality. ?It?s like we?re jumping from rock to rock hoping that one works. It?s scary. And it?s billed as: Do you want to save the sport? This is going to do this and that. I say, ?How? How is this going to build dual meet attendance across the country in smaller schools?? They say, well, it?s because a dual meet matters now. It?s not going to matter to the 40 schools that don?t have a chance to be at the duals, and those are the schools we?re trying to build up.? ? Penn State coach Cael Sanderson

Really sad story: Wrestling legend Eddie Urbano ? NCAA champion from ASU ( Bobby D?s first National Champion) and teacher/ coach, father of 4, apparently committed suicide recently at the age of 50. http://azstarnet.com/sports/high-school/wrestling/hansen-suicide-won-t-displace-memories-of-urbano-s-smile/article_8a3599a0-f30c-11e1-a0b6-0019bb2963f4.html

FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD MINUTES: The Board of School Trustees met in regular session at 7:10 p.m. on Monday, July 9, 2012. Attending were Board members Gregory Lewis, Edward Amberger, Timothy Tuttle, and Randy Kirk. Also attending was Superintendent Dr. Thomas Reale. Board president Timothy Tuttle presided. The meeting opened with the Pledge of Allegiance?... Comments from Patrons/Staff: Several parents of special needs students were present to express their concerns about the recent renovations at the high school and middle school and the moving of Ms. Amelung?s special needs classroom. They also had questions about who was paying for the renovations; cameras on the special needs buses; and parent rights. Mr. Tuttle stated the Board would take all comments under advisement. Mr. Eaton informed the audience that the Board had an agenda and could only act on agenda items. Mr. Eaton noted his appreciation for the parents? frustration, and stated the Board would base their decisions on the best interests of the overall school situation. Dr. Reale stated the day-to-day management of the schools was up to the building administrators. He noted a line of communication needed to be established whereby a patron starts at the building level, then to the superintendent and then to the Board if a satisfactory solution is not met. He stated he always takes calls and welcomes visits to his office. ----- Sounds like if they are adding cameras on special needs buses, and moving the classroom that they are not getting rid of the special needs program? I would like to hear more information from someone from Milan, to get the full story. ALSO FROM MEETING: ....Mr. Amberger motioned to approve the football position to group II @$3415.00; the drill team sponsor to group VII @$1338.00, SADD to group IX @$598.00, and Spanish to group X @$352.00. Seconded by Mr. Lewis. Motion carried 3-0-1 with Mr. Kirk abstaining. New Business: Mr. Amberger motioned to approve a resolution to transfer $97000 from the transportation fund and $32000 from the bus replacement fund to the Rainy Day fund. Seconded by Mr. Lewis. Motion carried 4-0. So - It sounds like Money was not the driving factor here by looking at that Rainy Day fund. Perhaps the story is more complex than reported, or we are not getting all of the facts. I would love more information about the situation as mentioned above.

Some say God, some say an angel, and some say even his brother Esau. The original Hebrew, before the translation to KJV, makes this pretty tricky. With that long hair and beard I've always seen God as more of a long distance runner than 5-point-thrower.

Varner would be 30 at RIO. While not out of the question, he may have accomplished all he wants to do and is ready to move on to the next stage of his life. 4 more years of grueling international competition, after you've already won the biggest prize on the biggest stage? Howe cannot make the team as long as Burroughs stays healthy. I just see too much young talent at the lower weights to think Reece or Angel can get in there four years from now. However, I will admit they have a chance becuase these new rules favor the older guys. *We should set up a Pick 'Em like the state tournament and revisit it 4 years from now on who makes the team, that would be interesting. There is always a lot that happens in these 4 long years.

Also, I don't know about 708 BC, but the first recorded wrestling match was between God and Jacob. You can read about it in the first book of the Hebrew bible. From what I'm told God hit a pretty slick gut wrench and disloated Jacob's hip.

PLEASE - I have been begging for years.... During the early rounds, quarters, semi's...Let's please convince someone to show a split screen of the score boards. This would be so easy to do, and so many people sit up in the stands not able to read that tiny scoreboard mat-side either becuase they're old and blind like me, or becuase they're at a weird angle to that triangle scoreboard. Mat 1 [ Mat 2 Red: [ Red: Green: [ Green: [ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ Mat 3 [ Mat 4 Red: [ Red: Green: [ Green:

I agree totally. I tell friends how boring soccer is on tv, and then when we watch some wrestling and it's just as boring. I know you were joking, but first one to 10 points would be very exciting: keep the push out rule, and the referee is pretty much out of the match, the best wrestler will win, and conditioning is rewarded. USA wrestling should wrestle some sort of modified rules, that's a very good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love wrestling but watching 2 guys hold hands and try shove each other out of a circle and not score for 1:45 is boring, and will hurt the sport...Not that Fila cares much about the good ole USofA's numbers.

Medal count is a poor determinant of the quality of an Athlete. For example: Brigit Fischer has 12 Olympic medals in Canoeing ? Are you telling me she?s a better Olympic Athlete than All of the wrestlers on this list because she has more medals? Lebron James has 2 Olympic Golds, is he a better athlete than Dan Gable and Cael Sanderson? -- Rdrodd-"She/He" - Hilarious.

Charger Dad pointed out what I feel many think. The newer FILA rules are really bad for wrestling. They have changed the Greco-Roman rules to be so complicated that all over the country local tournaments that used to have Greco simply do not anymore because local kids and many coaches cannot follow all of these unnecessarily complicated rules and it becomes more trouble than its worth. As this dies down at local levels, you're going to see this faction of wrestling, sadly, die . In addition, the ball grab, who gets choice based on the color of their singlet, and I'll even add last point scored in a tie - is terrible. For instance you can get destroyed 6-0 in the first period. 2nd period you get taken down. Then you simply PUSH a guy out of the circle to tie and win 2nd period. Third period 0-0 ball draw and win the draw. (this did happen this year) How does this reward the better wrestler? The loser scored 6 points, and the winner shoved a guy won a draw out of a basket!! Too much luck and silly rules. Quite frankly - I know I'm in the minority on this one - but I don't like separate periods where points don't carry over. Far too much stalling and waiting because there is no need to risk any offense if you have a 1 point lead. Its like running out the clock at the end of a basketball game, except that your are rewarded for doing it every quarter! (Yah I mentioned basketball get over it)

Charger Dad - you are dead on correct here. Ill start a different post about this since its a little off this thread topic.

ah - Maligned - you feel my pain! And the answer to the thread is no. If Howe can win some international tournaments we can talk. This is about the same as all the talk of Andew Luck being the next great NFL star because of the preseason. He may be, but we certainly haven't seen enough to make even a guess at this point. Same for Howe.

Camps are good, as you noted, for technique. There are actually a few intensive - conditioning/mental toughness - camps out there, but that being said, if you are trying to compete on a high level, getting in shape in June/July/August isn't going to help you much in February's state tournament. Now certainly you can learn conditioning practices, theories, and learn new ways to better prepare, but to pay someone for that in my opinion is a bit silly. There is a ton of litterature out there about high level conditioning and core strength as it applies to combat etc. I would pay for the high level technique, that's not always somthing you can provide as a father. I would research and study the conditioning and help my kids on my own - that much you can do. In addition it's worth noting that most high level conditioning is very nutrition centered which plays a role in wrestling quite well. This needs to become more of a lifestyle - not somthing you pick up over the summer.

Skip Bayless and Wilbon ? I?m ok with that as long as you don?t compare me to Le Batard ! I certainly am not taking anything away from Phelps ? He is clearly a freak athlete and I?m proud he?s an American dominating his sport. The point that some of feel is that in, say, wrestling ? if you make one little mistake you cannot achieve a gold medal. In Phelps case, he can make a terrible blunder or two or three and still walk away with 3-4-5 Gold medals. I think it says a lot more if you can show up for 4 or 5 or 6 consecutive Olympics and win a gold medal in each Olympics. Thus dominating your sport 16-24 years. Now if Phelps wanted to come swim in RIO and won a gold there, and had won a gold in Sydney, he?d be in the conversation but as it stands he has only won medals in 2 Olympics. Again ? not taking away anything from him, but being the best for 8 years doesn?t make you the greatest athlete of all time in my book. Congrats to Jordan on his GOLD today as well. 'Merica.

A dual meet Team Title would be great for D1. I have long advocated that more dual meets in High School would help grow the sport and encourage more spectators than all of these large individual events that can be quite boring and cumbersome to most.

"Is this greatest overall Olympian? Greatest Wrestling Olympian? Greatest American Wrestling Olympian? Greatest combined Olympians? Greatest "they may be future" Olympians? Greatest "if he actually got to compete in the Olympics" Olympian? Greatest single Olympic wrestling preformance? Greatest complete resume of a wrestling Olympian? Quite frankly this poll is all over the place. " MATTM ? maybe you should the title of the poll ? ?Who do you feel is the best Olympic wrestler of all time?? Is this greatest overall Olympian? ? If you?ll notice they are all wrestlers; so probably not overall Olympian. Greatest Wrestling Olympian? ? Actually yes, that is what the title says. Greatest American Wrestling Olympian? ? Probably not since that list is full of Russians. Greatest combined Olympians? ? They only tw0-fer is the Schultz boys; I combined them to give them a chance at a vote. And if the list was the greatest combined Olympians I guess it wouldnt be a very interesting vote and they'd win hands down since they are the only combined Olympians on the list! Greatest "they may be future" Olympians? ? I clearly was being sarcastic with the maybe-future fellas ?and even posted to that effect. Greatest "if he actually got to compete in the Olympics" Olympian? ? As you may know ? despite the fact that we boycotted the Olympics ? we still held an Olympic trials and Mr. Kemp won that trials- which puts him on an Olympic team whether we competed over there or not. Thereby he is still an Olympic wrestler in the opinion of many. If you don?t feel that way, then don?t vote for him. Greatest single Olympic wrestling preformance? ? AGAIN ? the title says ??best Olympic wrestler of all time.? ? No one said greatest performance or the list would have included more ?single medal? guys. Greatest complete resume of a wrestling Olympian? ? I suppose that is where the ?discussion? in discussion board comes into deciding who is the greatest. So? quite frankly this poll is spot on - If you have any other suggestions as to someone I left off the list who is a reasonable addition I?d be happy to add ? as I added Beloglazov

Kurt Angle only won 1 medal and if memory serves correctly it was 1-1 and he won his lone medal on a judge?s decision. Blatnick, Cael, and Gable only won 1 Olympic medal as well, so I found it hard to add them to that list. (Some of those fellas have 3 Golds) I felt that quite a few people would absent-mindedly choose Gable because of his popularity in this country without considering some of the others. I put Lee Kemp on this list because he was a very strong favorite for the Gold during our boycott, and I hated to leave him off the list with his other accomplishments in mind (1st American to win 3 world gold medals - and still youngest to win a world gold I believe) ALSO - I put Humphries/Howe on here a bit facetiously as a not-so-subtle knock on all the folks who act like they are the greatest of all time in every post because their knowledge base is only about 8 years back it seems. Sergei Beloglazov is an interesting one, I think he had a brother who was a gold medalist as well but I don't recall his name - I will add him to the list.

With all of this talk of Phelps being the greatest Olympian ever - which I disagree with - Who do you feel is the best Olympic wrestler of all time? I understand some had more Olympic medals than others, but I think the argument can be made for most.

That was sarcasm there. My point - That if there were more than one national champion based on the size of the state it would devalue the National Championship - the exact same thing multiple state championships does.