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Posts posted by maligned
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14 minutes ago, SIACfan said:
I don't doubt that, but it doesn't change the fact that 97 kg (214 lbs) is a long way away from 197 pounds. That is a lot of weight for someone with Christian Carroll's frame to cut.
But if he is able to do it, there is no guarantee that he will be as dominate as he was this past weekend at 97 kg.
I'm not trying to knock Christian Carroll here. I'm all about the success of our Indiana guys. My comments were more about raising the topic of the need for a weight class between 197 & HWT at the college level. Christian is one individual that I feel would greatly benefit from just such a weight class.
I fully agree that 97kg (214lbs) is more ideal to take advantage of CC's insane frame. That said...
The obvious example of a stout 97kg guy going back and forth between 197lb and 97kg is the 5'11" Kyle Snyder his first couple years of top international competition. Even at an inch shorter, Christian is starting with a fuller 214-lb frame than Snyder had at the same age--but if he can follow even 5% of the Snyder blueprint, he's on a great path.
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For those that didn't see it elsewhere:
Freshmen:
Evan Stanley 1st
Miguel Rojas 2nd
Lucas Boe 1st
(wish we actually had these guys in-state for the HS season!)
Sophomore:
Parker Reynolds 5th
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On 4/7/2024 at 6:38 PM, TC7 said:
He will be at 197 for sure next season
8 hours ago, Caleb Spires said:I’m going to go out on a limb and say TC7 has some good insight, so I’ll take his word for it.
Christian wrestled incredible over the weekend. Just keeps adding to an amazing resume before his first college season. I think he’ll be an immediate contender at 197 next season, and hopefully makes some noise at the OTT.
Thanks, TC. I guess if we'd paid attention to CC's post-title interview this weekend, it would have been clear too. In brief, he's 5'10" and the guys at 285 are such monsters, structurally. He also mentions wanting to coach down the road and suggests there are no examples of ex-HWTs doing that at the highest levels.
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21 hours ago, SIACfan said:
I'm no expert & am in no way close to the situation. But looking at it from a far, 17 pounds is a lot of weight to shed & keep off for an entire college wrestling season for someone built like Christian Carroll. I would suspect he is already on a pretty strict diet just to be at 97 kg, but again I have no real insight except that he wrestled 220 as a junior in HS.
Cutting that kind of weight & being competitive at the college level can be extremely difficult. Mendez is a good example. He was a completely different animal this year at 141 vs 133 his freshman season. He was much more powerful this year.
Chrisian is a perfect example of why college wrestling needs a weight class between 197 & HWT. And with the recent development of the competitors in the HWT class in college, it is only getting tougher for guys who are at their best around 210-220 pounds.
I'm not actually suggesting adding a weight class to college but just restructuring the classes to:
125
133
141
150
160
172
184
197
215
HWT
It more closely follows the international weight classes to boot.
I agree with the sentiment of narrowing the gap between 197 and 285, but I would be disappointed if we narrowed the low-middle weights, where the highest numbers of guys naturally fall. The international weights don't make sense at all. They were created by choosing the 6 weights we wanted most--and then trying to squeeze 4 additional ones in somewhere (and accidentally skewing way too heavily toward big guys). They would be structured differently if we were allowed 10 weights at the Olympics.
Something like this would include bigger guys better than we currently do, while catching as many college wrestlers' natural sizes as possible, in my opinion. Including KGs for your benefit, @SIACfan :
126 (57kg)
134 (61kg)
142 (64.5kg)
150 (68kg)
158 (72kg)
167 (76kg)
177 (80kg)
190 (86kg)
210 (95kg)
285 (129kg)
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Interesting. There have been so many successful smaller heavies the last 25 years, I would have thought he'd push through and make a run at getting elite against big boys. It'll be fun to see how he evolves.
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D1 Qualifier data is a limited way of evaluating who produces the top talent, but it's a decent starting point.
Top 20 D1 Qualifiers, combined 2023 & 2024:
1 pa 89
2 il 54
3 oh 50
4 nj 49
5 ca 39
6 ny 33
7 ia 29
8 mn 28
9 mi 24
10 ok 23
11 wi 21
11 fl 21
13 mo 18
14 in 17
15 va 16
15 ga 1617 co 13
18 nc 10
19 id 8
19 ks 8Top 20, per capita (Qualifiers for 2 years, per 1 million residents):
1 ia 9.0
2 pa 6.9
3 ok 5.7
4 nj 5.3
5 mn 4.9
6 il 4.3
7 oh 4.2
8 id 4.1
9 wi 3.6
10 ne 3.5
11 mo 2.9
12 ks 2.7
13 in 2.5
14 mi 2.4
15 co 2.216 va 1.8
17 ny 1.7
18 ga 1.5
19 ct 1.4
20 al 1.4(no CA or FL)
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3 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:
Iowa definitely in the second tier. Colorado, Nebraska, and Florida are on the back end of tier 2 or the top of tier 3, they aren't consistent enough to be considered in tier 2.
We aren't doing the per capita stuff though. Per capita is the way Iowa justifies being relevant.
That's true. I agree that we shouldn't put much value on populations or enrollments to evaluate relative success.
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3 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:
The top tier(in somewhat order)
Pennsylvania
OhioCalifornia
New Jersey
IllinoisSecond tier(not too much order)
Wisconsin
Michigan
Minnesota
Indiana
Oklahoma
Missouri
New York
Georgia(sneaking up there)Forgot Iowa. They're the #1 per capita producer of top-level talent, despite the small numbers. California is second-tier in per capita talent, but the sheer numbers are big. Colorado and Florida are in the second tier discussion too despite not being in the wrestling belt, and Nebraska is top 10 in per capita talent.
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7 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:
125- I was going to pick Figs at whatever seed they gave him . He came back from a loss to Provo from Stanford in OT 13-8, in early February to beat Provo 4-1 at PAC 12 Championships . 2 of his loses was injury defaulted and was giving a loss to Volk at Cliff Keen which is debatable. You can check that match out on Flo. Flo even did a story on that match . His only real loss match was to California and Oregon State Rival Maximo Renteria . Wonder why Maximo didn’t wrestle in NCAA’s cause he would have AA if not a finalist . Both they know each other very well .
As stated earlier Rich is Family . Asa wrestled with him on Team Shutt a few times while in High School . Super Proud of him .
Interesting about Renteria. I wonder if he came into college small. He was 5-19 in 2 years at Illinois, but he was 6-0 in opens this year behind Kaylor, who graduates. He'll obviously be one to watch if the Figueroa win was for real.
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7 hours ago, SIwrestling said:
One of those Little Rock AA's used to wreak havoc at the Mater Dei Holiday Classic and had some battles with some of our best.
The word "battles" might be a bit overstating the resistance he got from us his senior year (below). But Sollars did get him when they were sophomores.
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6 hours ago, SIACfan said:
125 was the real difference.
At 184, 9 of 19 contestants who finished outside of the top 10 scored double digit points. Where at 124, only 2 of 19 people outside of the top 10 scored double digit points. And only 3 of 19 outside of the top 10 scored any points at all.
True. It's kind of like 184 was the price of admission and 125 got you to the VIP room. Only 1 of the bottom 11 scored anything at all at 184 and 16 of the top 18 had at least 11 points.
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1 hour ago, SIACfan said:
Not sure that 41 & 57 were that wide open, especially 157 as Haines had been #1 there all year. I think it had more to do with the fact that you can only pick two #1's or #2's & most people had more faith elsewhere.
Brooks was by far the most popular #1 as 24 out of 29 contestants choose him. Kirkvliet was the next most popular #1 followed by Keckheisen. 19 of the 29 contestants had Brooks with either Kirkvliet or Keckeisen, and one person had Kirkvliet & Keckheisen as their top picks. So 20 out of 29 had some combination of those 3 as their top picks.
But I will say that after the top guys at 41 & 57, it was wide open & most of us didn't do a very good job of handicapping those weights.
I would also say the scores this year far exceeded those from last year, because of Starocci, Vito & Carr being seeded 9, 6 & 4 respectively. Those to me were 3 very obvious picks outside of the top 2 seeds, and 20 of 29 contestants had all 3 of them. And the top 16 finishers had all three. If you didn't have all 3 of those guys you had zero chance of winning. Heck, I had all three of them & Brooks & Keckheisen & still only managed to finish 11th.
One last thought, Starocci was clearly the easiest pick of the contest as 28 of 29 people had him and 23 took him as their wildcard.
It was definitely 125 and 184 where the higher-scoring contestants made their hay. You can see a clear delineation between high-ranking and low-ranking overall finishers based on scoring big in those two weights.
In retrospect, the Keckeisen pick, especially, made a lot of sense because the rest of the weight was more difficult to gauge. Guys that took him freed up a lower seed to score complementary points elsewhere that were more of a sure thing than lower-seed options at 184.
At 125, I know Figueroa looked like a world beater this weekend, but everyone took their turn to look great or to lose 3 or 4 matches at that weight this year. It was a bit of a shot in the dark guessing who would be hot, and the ones that landed that shot and scored points at 125 finished up the leaderboard.
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- UncleJimmy, TeamGarcia and Ahap88
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- UncleJimmy and Ahap88
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18 minutes ago, busstogate said:
I have sorrow for Woods going forward. He was right there all through college, but just missed the big one. An all-time bada$$.
So true. And if you're a Woods guy, I think last year was the real "rip your heart out" year. Compared to this year, I think he was just slightly back up the hill at his true apex then. And a once-in-a-lifetime throw by a guy who's never hit a throw took what was so nearly his.
- busstogate and Beamaker
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4 minutes ago, busstogate said:
I think he was the reason Swiderski went to 149. Echemendia is the real deal.
It's funny, too, how matchups matter. Woods controlled Echemendia twice, Mendez pushed Woods around--but Echemendia was such a handful for Mendez.
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On 3/22/2024 at 9:04 AM, Wrestling Scholar said:
Yea, Im doing last second trip to KC to see the finals. Cheapest tix on resell last night were $126. I might have to be patient. Even wrestling is getting expensive
Cheapest I saw a week ago were more like 250 or 300, so it's trending your way
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12 hours ago, Beamaker said:
Mendez to the finals. Hard fought win to get there. B1G championship rematch here we go.
That match was SCARY as a Mendez fan. I hadn't seen Echemendia. That dude is physical and on you. He wore Mendez down in a way that I haven't seen. I can't believe he took 5 losses coming into nationals.
- Beamaker and MUSKEEWRESTLER
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1 hour ago, Beamaker said:
Man, I wish Davison would open up his offense more. He is so solid in his technique and I almost get the impression he doesn’t really understand what an athletic freak he truly is. Yonger is brutally strong and always seems to close out the close matches. I hope LD goes after him early and often and puts the pressure to him… I’m not sure a super tight match favors LD….if it comes to that, I hope I’m dead wrong.
I think he ended up wrestling the perfect match. He pressured, pressured, pressured, wore him down, and kept testing the waters to snipe a low attack all through the last half of the match before finally getting that opening at the death. It was absolutely perfect and he needed every second to pull it off. What a thing of beauty!
- Beamaker, busstogate, tangarrray and 1 other
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11 hours ago, Ahap88 said:
Does anyone have all 10 in the quarters? I have 9, I'm sure there are a bunch of others?
4 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:9
I'm not doing well here or anywhere else. I've only got 7 in the quarters.
I won this one last year and came close to winning the main open pool on WrestleStat. I'm bottom half in 4 pools like this right now. Whoops!
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Summary of last night's results for our Indiana interests:
Baumann, Bates, Willham are out.
C-Rooks picks up two wins and makes it to the R24 in the consis. Lemley, G-Rooks, Lee all lose and fall into that round as well. Those 4 guys each need 3 wins to be AAs.
Mendez, Allred, Davison are in the quarterfinals.
Mendez beat Hardy, 11-3, during the year and is clearly favored. Allred will be a significant underdog versus #2 Hidlay, who's only gone the distance in 5 of his 26 wins during his undefeated season. Davison lost 5-3 to #2 Bastida this year, and should have a shot at the upset.
IU has 5 of 6 still alive in the consolations.
Purdue, as noted above, has Ramos in the quarters and Clark in the consis.
- MattM and MUSKEEWRESTLER
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1 hour ago, Thor said:
Boilers had a rough showing yesterday. Ramos gets to the quarters by getting a first period takedown then stalling to a win. Greyson Clark is the last one going on to today, but barely. Baumann had a rough day going 0-2. Scored 9 points in the first period of his second match then proceeded to lose 13-9. He's done that a few times this year, maybe he has a gas tank issue? Or running too hot too fast? Buell looked awful, getting teched and then pinned after being up early. Blaze just had a bad tournament wrestling like he has all year. He has won a lot of close matches and they just didn't go his way yesterday.
Still think there's a bright future for these guys. Purdue is trotting out one of the youngest teams in the country once again. Blaze has wins over two guys wrestling in the quarters today and Buell has another. Baumann and James Rowley still redshirt freshmen and Dustin Norris is a promising sophomore that just needs to heal up. Let's get Ramos a title this weekend, get Marcus Blaze to commit, and keep moving forward.
I don't know. Ramos is just not the Ramos of last year, nor does he seem like the Ramos we saw part of this year. At his best, he could be up 10-1 going into the second period on any of these guys. Why does he so rarely attack these days? Then his defense is good--but not the best on the planet. So he can get scored on and get matches stolen from him by guys that aren't nearly on his talent level. What gives?? Is he cutting too much for 125 at this point?
Anyway...the truth is, if he can get past the quarters and face Davis and Ayala--I think he can still get it done. He'd be back in that underdog role he loves so much, and there's a good chance attack-mode could come back out.
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13 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:
Fellas … if you didn’t pick #12 at 157 Andonian “the funk” you haven’t watched NCAA Nationals past few years and as I type this he knocks off #5 seed .
I couldn't do it...him getting destroyed multiple times this year was too impressed on my brain. But you only have to be healthy and resemble your best once a year for all to be redeemed.
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6 minutes ago, TrueRegionFan said:
I might have to consider no cash prize punishments also for both of you for tattling, you're right. I try not to get in the middle of these County/Region play fights though.
Indiana's ideal best college line-up this year
in College and International Wrestling
Posted
This would be a really good match. History has shown NAIA, D2, D3 national champs to be around NCAA national qualifier level. Kervin's domination over all but the very top of NAIA and domination over good D2 and D3 competition suggest he's at that level. And WrestleStat had Matt Lee as the #20-ranked 165 on all rosters in D1 this year. That would be an interesting one.