SWINfan

I'm not a referee and can't speak to the exact application of the rule in this instance, but I can say I have seen it called the way SIACfan described and just because hands break doesn't make it an automatic escape.  There is something called reaction time and how it is applied in HS I'm not exactly sure.  I think Reformed Poster's example also applies.  Whether it's in a scramble or intentional, the escape isn't awarded instantaneously.  I see holds broken all the time in scrambles and control regained almost immediately.  In my mind, if Vanover reached out and had a leg, preventing a reversal, then that would fit.  But I can't see that part on the video.

I can't say for sure whether the call was correct or not, or whether the referees handled things wrong.  But the fact that there is still an ongoing argument reinforces my statement that it isn't as clear cut as some make it out to be.  Maybe it is to them, but that doesn't make it universal that everyone should see it the same - hence not clear.

1 hour ago, RAJR said:

Not adding a riding time point. If you ride a minute, you currently get a point. I am saying you don't get that point unless you also scored a near fall in the match.

That's my point...  you're tying it to the near fall points.  i don't like it.  Either you earn riding time or you don't, IMO.  

4 hours ago, HWTDAD said:

Correct. he was on the bottom and escaped. This was mid trying to score, he got around him and they gave his 2 but then took the 2 points back and did not even award him 1. Would have tied the match and went to OT.  Really Really bad...kid was a senior and this was his last shot

This was discussed in the matches thread from that day.  While I can't tell you for sure from the angle the camera provided, I can say it's not as clear cut as you state.  At one point, for a split second there appears to be separation, but that in itself is not an escape.  I can't tell you if it was the correct call or not with the angle the video provides, but I can say it's not as simple as you make it out to be.  If Vanover, as the period ended has a leg, then the call was correct.  There were a few ifs in this scenario, and I don't want to use the wrong words and make it worse.  But I've seen such a situation happen before with the same call.  Sadly, for Mills, 2-3 more seconds would have likely been enough to finish the move get the points.  

2 hours ago, RAJR said:

I like the idea of no riding time point unless near fall was scored. This season seems like a lot of parallel riding, no attempts to turn and no stall call. Also like the 3pt takedown. Doubt either will happen though.

To me adding a riding time point to go along with a 4 pt nearfall is big time overkill.  You can earn both, but tying them together just misses the mark, IMO.  

I don't see the sport as needing to be fixed. Rules can be tweaked, but no need for an overhaul.

 

6 hours ago, Tobin Fortune said:

All the colleges are having games leading up to their playoffs too.  IU, Purdue,  Indiana State, Ball State, Notre Dame, Valparaiso, Butler  all have basketball commitments.  I am honestly surprised the GLVC is letting ISHAA entertain the thought of the Ford Center as a venue. 

The OVC is what you mean here and their tournament is in March, so it doesn't conflict.  And the OVC has zero control over what events are held there anyway.  

The only conflict could be the hockey team or UE Basketball/MVC, and I'm sure that could be worked out easily or the Ford Center would not have entered the discussion.

16 minutes ago, Disco said:

Wrestlers look like ants? Well to me anyone under 145. You know wrestling is a little man’s sport. 

I'm confused. Maybe I missed a joke somewhere?  I was referring to what the view would be like from the upper level of Assembly Hall, not  the size of wrestlers.  It's one of the steepest seating setups in the country.  What did I miss?

I can't speak to any particular referees, match, etc.  I've never refereed a wrestling match.  But I did used to umpire baseball games (HS and college), so I have some insight as to possibilities.

Often times officials working together don't know each other or at least haven't worked with each other a lot.  Add to that differences in personalities and you can get an interesting mix when a decision needs to be reviewed/potentially changed.  
-One official may have a more dominant personality, therefore dominate such conversations or the 2nd might be a little hesitant to offer a dissenting opinion.
- One official may be completely sure of him/herself (even when they shoudn't be) and not open minded to overturning a call, believing they are right.
- The fact the conversations are had in close proximity to those competing and people can read lips/hear would by nature keep the conversations short.  That in itself could limit discussion.
- A Senior Official paired with a newer official at that level could add to the above.

None of that is an excuse, just a look into possible interpersonal dynamics that could cloud a situation.

I had a situation in baseball where the home plate umpire I was working with messed up a call.  After getting yelled at by the home coach, he came out to me and asked me.  I was honest and told him what I thought but added that I was way too far away and didn't have the angle to say so 100%.  He then turned around and changed the call, hanging me out to dry.  The visiting coach then came out and screamed in my face for 5 minutes while the home plate umpire sauntered back to the plate and let it happen.  I was so pissed.  I chose to never work with him again, when I could help it.  But in baseball, you don't always know who you're working with until you show up for the game. Anyway, I'm rambling now. Just a thought or two....

 

5 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Read the topic, the colleges have this basketball thing going on and they MUST adhere to the schedule from the Big Ten. If the Big Ten has a game that day the IHSAA would be forced to move the event 

You mean the B1G wouldn't adjust their whole conference schedule to accommodate IHSAA Wrestling State?  How preposterous!

10 hours ago, Websterk149 said:

I posted this last night and just got brushed over. Idk why anyone hasn’t mentioned it yet tho, I totally agree with ya tho!

2 things...

1. IU couldn't commit to Assembly Hall as it does not control the Big Ten schedule and the BT doesn't release next year's schedule anytime soon. 

2.  Ignore the seating capacity.  If you haven't been there, do you realize how steep and high up the balcony?  There is no way I'd want to sit up that high.  Wrestlers would look like ants.

19 hours ago, rookie78 said:

My bad 11,000......neither will be cozy

Making padded, comfy seats even more important!

13 minutes ago, MattM said:

I don’t have a provider that caries the Ballys network.  However with the free trial subscription you can still get it through their App. 

 

Cast maybe a part of it.  I’ve had a pretty good steam since it started. 

I'm sure it is....  but I'm a stubborn old bastard and I like my 65" TV better than my laptop.  I tried the app, but my location got in the way and wouldn't work.

Is 126 the Hair State Championship as well?  Winner takes the title of this thread?

Experienced a lot of lag watching Bally's feed online.  I'm casting to a TV so that could be part of it, but it hasn't been a problem the past 2 days with the feed from Flo.

36 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Yes it's on Balley Sports also. You can get a trial membership for a week.

Only if you are in the Indiana viewing area.  Or, can create an account using someone's address and CC with an IN zip code. 

41 minutes ago, Ahawkeye said:

I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER buy flo again!

Flo is not broadcasting the Finals.  That was clarified in an earlier thread.  They aren't having technical problems, they just don't have rights to broadcast it.  That said, it has been that way for years.  You have always had to switch to IHSAA.tv to watch the Final.  The difference is it is now no longer free to do so. 

When Fox Sports Indiana was widely available and most everyone had cable, they defaulted to the TV broadcast and the IHSAA app was available for replay in-state and Live outside the State.  But Fox Sports is dead, Bally Sports is nearly bankrupt and many people have cut the cord.  So the IHSAA is charging to access it.  

10 minutes ago, MattM said:

A lot of provider so account for travel/vacation zip code to be used for a limited time, so hopefully they have this so you can get in tonight. 

That's the hope!
I used their address and credit card with an IN zip code.  Otherwise I couldn't even subscribe.

1 minute ago, MattM said:

Looks like I’m in with the BallySports+ 7 Day free trial.

 

If you are in the Indiana viewing area and don’t have Ballys on your TV provided and didn’t want to pay for the entire weekends coverage you can watch the finals with this.

 

Sign up on your phone/computer. You will need a credit card. So don’t forget to cancel afterward.  Then look for Wrestling in upcoming events or the search option. 

 

.If you want to watch it through your TV you will need to sign up like instructed above.  Then after that download the Ballys App. click sign-in. The first time through it will ask you to go to the Ballys activation website to type in the code.  Then enter the app and look for wrestling in upcoming events or the search option.  

 

I did the Free Trial using my parents info.  Can't use the Bally App because it keeps telling me my location doesn't match and to go to my home location.  So far, the website seems to be working though I did get a message that I need to log in from my "home zip code" or risk losing premium content.  I'm hoping that won't happen as quickly as tonight.  Guess we'll see shortly. 

Just now, RAJR said:

Agree, I think it should be full 2 minutes starting at Sectional. The consolations are important for team scores and placement for the following week. 1 minute can mean a lot in a match, more time to score and conditioning is a factor.

I've always felt that.  It's not like we're working with a 128 person bracket w/ full wrestlebacks that has to be done in 2 days. If the match counts toward something, don't cut it short!

A couple more for consideration...
Nate Johnson
Tommy Morrill

 

3 minutes ago, quinnsDAD said:

Easily could have started at noon been done with entire first round by 4:30 took an hour break and still run thru quarters and been out of there by 9 latest. then wrestlebacks and semis at same time in morning another round of wrestlebacks break placements. Not sure what they pay for gamebridge if anything but take advantage of having it all day. two sessions on Friday took away all the excitement of Friday night, I will agree waiting on weight classes classes make it easier to keep up but that was half the fun.

I'll add in my annual rant which is only related in the sense of time.  The whole idea that consolation matches have a minute shaved off the first period to me is idiotic.  I get the necessity of doing so in a large tournament with full wrestlebacks, but here it makes no sense.  They aren't crunched for time so much that a match as important is earning a State Medal should be shortened.  

Count me in for one vote for no 1 minute 1st periods!!

I'm curious how many entries had Cole Chicoine in the Finals?  

How big of a pain would it be to count and post each wrestler in the Finals and the % of entries they were picked?  

20 minutes ago, GrecoCoach said:

The match at 152 is the only finals match that does not include a wrestler from Brownsburg, Center Grove, or Crown Point.

 

Even more interesting, in all the other 13 finals matches, Brownsburg, Center Grove, and Crown Point never wrestle each other head to head.

I hadn't even looked at it that closely.  Crown Point's 1st appearance in the Finals is at 160.  But is interesting there are no head to head matchups.

4 hours ago, trackgopher said:

We do not have streaming rights to the finals tonight.  So please plan on finding a way to watch via IHSAA app or Bally.

 

Delete

4 minutes ago, busstogate said:

That is true on the free finals.  Sorry to hear about the Flo juicing.  Not surprised, though.

The problem isn't Flo.  It's the same on their end as it has been for years.  But the IHSAA is now charging and it's not accurate on their own site.  

Just now, busstogate said:

The semistate/state package is the best deal.

Not if you already pay for it via Flo.  In the past, IHSAA.tv was free via their app if you lived outside of the TV viewing area.  This year the IHSAA started charging for it, I assume because Bally sucks so bad and many people don't have it.  But that squeezes out those of us who now have to pay twice.  Pre-Flo when it was Track Wrestling, you were correct, that was the way to do it.