NIaGrad

Possibly Hoschstetler upsetting Schrock at 145. He beat Trevino who was ranked just under Schrock.

Correction to M109R: Sent 9 to finals with 8 Champs. Easy to forget that not getting pinned by Forte is not the same as a victory(although most would say being able to walk off the mat is a moral victory).

Maybe politics and wrestling could merge and we could have a new sport called Gerrywrestling. I'm sure we could devise a school district that could win a state championship.

This whole thread smells a bit fishy. Living in South Bend/Mishawaka area, with a brisk west wind I can sometimes get a whiff of Gary. Does that mean we are in DA REGION? Maybe the whole state can gang up on MD. No matter how you carve it up, MD had a great team and should be congratulated.

I like most of what Maligned has to say. I still prefer having 8 teams in the final. In order to do this you would probably have to have two weekends in a row, say the 2nd and 3rd wkend in Dec. (or possibly 1st and second, whichever would be best to avoid the Holidays) or the 1st and 2nd week in January. The first weekend would be 4 qualifying regional meets based on SS boundries with coaches from the region deciding which 8 teams would participate and where they would be seeded. My thinking is that it would be easier to seed teams within a region where they would have wrestled more matches in common. Having a challenge match just between winner of consolation and loser of final would negate somewhat the importance of seeding. That would still just be four matches, not unusual for a super duel. The weekend of the finals, would consist of eight teams, #1 and #2 from each semistate. The four semistate champs would be seeded and the runner ups placed on opposite side of the bracket from the victor of their semistate. Again, I would like to see a challenge round with winner of consolation challenging loser of final, winner of loser's bracket challenging loser of consolations, and winner of loser's consolation challenging loser of loser's bracket finals. The results would unequivocally rank the first two and fairly accurately rank the top eight. Potentially a third place team from a strong semistate could claim third but it wouldn't make that much difference at that point. It may take a few years to adjust the schedules of the super duel schedule to accomodate the team state schedule but if there is a will it could be done.

Chris Taylor getting suplayed.

From what I am hearing, going through the IHSAA is not likely to be fruitful. I made a proposal and haven't seen any constructive criticism or comment but instead have seen a lot of hot air being blown around. Let's stop complaining about what we don't have control and solve the problem. Look at how many multi team duels are going on throughout the state. With a little organization and forethought we could have what we want without formal IHSAA. We are very close with what just happened last weekend. Let's hear about what we can do and how to do it.

I appreciate the Bellmont Coach stepping in on behalf of his team. I very much enjoyed the excellent wrestling and this weekend and appreciate the time and effort that went into this event. The discussion did get me thinking about the format. There was a post advocating 4 eight team regional meets with the champion in each regional meeting for a 4 team bracket the following day. That still doesn't address the issue of having two strong cross-town rivals that may both be in the top four. I suggest each region deciding the eight best teams in their region, having a qualifying tournament but taking top two places. The finals would be an eight team bracket smilar to current format, seeding the winners of each regional and separating the losers from the winners of each regional to the opposite side of the bracket. To this add a challenge round following the finals. The winner of the consolations could challenge the loser of the finals, the winner of the losers bracket could challenge the loser of the consolations, and the winner of the losers bracket consolations could challenge the loser of the losers bracket finals. No challenge matches against prior opponents in the tournament and the challenges would be optional. If challenged however, you must participate or concede your place. I believe that this would take some of the importance away from the rankings and allow the teams to prove themselves face to face. If teams can participate in a two day tournament such as Al Smith or the multi team mega duals, certainly adding a qualifying tournament and one more round at the end could be accomplished. Other than the logistics, the only down? side I can see is the loss of the post tournament grumbling about how one team or another was overlooked. I tried to post the spread sheet on how the brackets would look but I don't know how to attach it without losing the format. Most of you understand what I am saying I would imagine.

Correction on the Penn lineup against Mater Dei, Stohler bumped up from 220 to wrestle 285. All three of Penn's matches were good matches. The light weigh MD's came out with fire and blew them away, although one of the pins was a pin from the bottom when they were trapped on their back from the legs.

What a stick by Colon From U of N Iowa on Ramos from Iowa!!!

Al Smith 2013 A few changes (*) reflecting the last state rankings. 103 1 Hildebrandt Penn (1) 2 Cummings Lowell (5) 3 Tobin Chesterton (10) 4 Mendez Bellmont (12) 5 Heckathorn Rochester (16) 6 Garrettson Peru 7 Hurst Jasper 8 Dela Pena Merrillville 113 1 Crary Munster (3) 2 Garza Merrillville (6) 3 Slates Penn (9) 4 Quinn Peru 5 Laughlin SB Adams 6 Becker Bellmont 7 Owens Warren Central 120 1 Sinkovics Mishawaka (5) * 2 McKinney Warren Central (6) 3 Hudkins Danville (9) 4 Black Hobart (13) 5 Wells LaPorte 6 Chafin Jimtown 7 Mockensturnm Prairie Heights 126 1 Wilson Warren Central (2) 2 Davis Penn (3) *3 Schitter Jasper (13) 4 Malloy Danville (16) 5 Johnson Merrillville 6 Truver Lake Central 7 Ballentine Mishawaka 8 Gunsett Bellmont 132 1 Noblitt Columbus East (3) 2 Reel Warren Central (11) 3 Kein Peru 4 Hersch Mishawaka 5 Olson SB Adams 6 Double Chesterton 7 Schirrer Danville 138 1 Hughes Lowell (1) 2 Cash Lawrence North (3) 3 Fleener Center Grove (5) * 4 Pruit Warren Central (6) 5 Covaciu Merrillville (9) 6 Swank Penn (12) 7 Richkenbaugh Columbus East 145 1 Forte Mishawaka (2) 2 Loe Peru (3) 3 Brescher Jasper (8) 4 Gross Lowell 5 Rentas Merrillville 6 Duerson Lawrence North 7 Sebahar Lake Central 8 Varner Penn 152 1 Macri Mishawaka (3) 2 Rheinhart Penn (5) 3 Mavros Lowell (10) 4 Armstrong Merrillville 5 Neher Bellmont 6 Davidson Chesterton 7 Christenson Lake Central 8 Morris Elkhart Memorial 160 1 Hughes Lowell (2) 2 Mammolenti Penn (8) 3 Baumgartner Bellmont (13) 4 Jones Lawrence North 5 Hullas Chesterton 6 Slosser Munster 170 * 1 Perdue Warren Central (3) 2 Sopko Hobart (6) 3 Osborn Penn (7) 4 Katsofaros Chesterton (9) 5 Fisher Columbus East * 6 Smith Goshen 7 Malone SB Riley 8 Kreilen Jasper 182 * 1 Moss Warren Central (3) 2 Eldridge LaPorte (4) 3 Wiseman Penn (10) 4 Hollins Merrillville (14) 5 Fowler Calumet (15) 195 * 1 Johnson Elkhart Memorial (4) 2 Woods Penn (5) 3 Pickens Danville 4 Cress Peru 5 Davis Garrett 220 1 Robinson Lake Central (1) * 2 Stohler Penn (12) 4 Spurgeon Jimtown 5 Hobbs Peru 6 Perryman Lawrence North 7 Perry Merrillville 285 1 Streck Merrillville (3) * 2 Hernandez Warren Central (7) 3 Blackburn LaPorte 4 Manuel Calumet

For list of teams, Click on Al Smith under brackets which will take to to TrackWrestling. Click on teams and there you are.

Al Smith 2013 Based on State Rankings, then SS Rankings, ties to local teams. Apologies regarding mistakes. No attempts were made to add non-ranked to list. 103 1 Hildebrandt Penn 2 Cummings Lowell 3 Tobin Chesterton 4 Mendez Bellmont 5 Heckathorn Rochester 6 Garrettson Peru 7 Hurst Jasper 8 Dela Pena Merrillville 113 1 Crary Munster 2 Garza Merrillville 3 Slates Penn 4 Quinn Peru 5 Laughlin SB Adams 6 Becker Bellmont 7 Owens Warren Central 120 1 Sinkovics Mishawaka 2 Hudkins Danville 3 McKinney Warren Central 4 Black Hobart 5 Wells LaPorte 6 Chafin Jimtown 7 Mockensturnm Prairie Heights 126 1 Wilson Warren Central 2 Davis Penn 3 Malloy Danville 4 Schitter Jasper 5 Johnson Merrillville 6 Truver Lake Central 7 Ballentine Mishawaka 8 Gunsett Bellmont 132 1 Noblitt Columbus East 2 Reel Warren Central 3 Kein Peru 4 Hersch Mishawaka 5 Olson SB Adams 6 Double Chesterton 7 Schirrer Danville 138 1 Hughes Lowell 2 Cash Lawrence North 3 Fleener Center Grove 4 Covaciu Merrillville 5 Pruit Warren Central 6 Swank Penn 7 Richkenbaugh Columbus East 145 1 Forte Mishawaka 2 Loe Peru 3 Brescher Jasper 4 Gross Lowell 5 Rentas Merrillville 6 Duerson Lawrence North 7 Sebahar Lake Central 8 Varner Penn 152 1 Macri Mishawaka 2 Rheinhart Penn 3 Mavros Lowell 4 Armstrong Merrillville 5 Neher Bellmont 6 Davidson Chesterton 7 Christenson Lake Central 8 Morris Elkhart Memorial 160 1 Hughes Lowell 2 Mammolenti Penn 3 Baumgartner Bellmont 4 Jones Lawrence North 5 Hullas Chesterton 6 Slosser Munster 170 1 Sopko Hobart 2 Osborn Penn 3 Katsofaros Chesterton' 4 Fisher Columbus East 5 King Warren Central 6 Smith Goshen 7 Malone SB Riley 8 Kreilen Jasper 180 1 Eldridge LaPorte 2 Perdue Warren Central 3 Wiseman Penn 4 Hollins Merrillville 5 Fowler Calumet 195 1 Moss Warren Central 2 Johnson Elkhart Memorial 3 Woods Penn 4 Pickens Danville 5 Cress Peru 6 Davis Garrett 220 1 Robinson Lake Central 2 Hernandez Warren Central 3 Stohler Penn 4 Spurgeon Jimtown 5 Hobbs Peru 6 Perryman Lawrence North 7 Perry Merrillville 285 1 Streck Merrillville 2 Blackburn LaPorte 3 Manuel Calumet

I don't understand all the issues that lost us the team championship with the IHSAA but I fail to see how this issue contributed. To me having the possibility of juggling the lineup adds to the drama of the meet. Putting less than your best team out doesn't seem like a good strategy for winning, although it may be beneficial for your team to move a good wrestler up and put a good JV in his place.

Let me add a 4th reason A team has two good wrestlers in the same weight and the coach gives the close 2nd a chance in the lineup in a multi meet super duel. Slatton 170 from Penn ranked 11th, beat Bates 9-1 and lost in overtime in a close match to Sopko but was defeated in wrestle off by Osborn. Although Osborn is #1, Slatton deserves some time in the limelight and will represent us well when given the opportunity. It takes effort and finesse to keep a deep lineup interested and motivated. to answer bgmak, yes an inexperienced wrestler could injure an experienced wrestler but I would think that would be unlikely. Injury to the inexperienced wrestler is also uncommon if the goal of the experienced wrestler is not to injure his opponent. Most wrestlers know the difference and those who don't need coaches to teach them.

It sounds like we are discussing several different issues. 1. Safety of an inexperienced wrestler. 2. Dodging a stud to pad a good wrestler's record. 3. Juggling lineup to increase team's chance of winning. 1 and 3 can be justified. 2 probably does harm for both wrestlers involved.

I think a coach should have the freedom of using discretion before putting an inexperienced wrestler in with a wrestler that is obviously out of his league. It shouldn't happen in the larger schools but in the smaller schools, there may not be the choice that a coach would like and an unskilled and/or inexperienced athlete may have to step up before they are ready. This may be fine for most of their competition, but occasionally they may be up against a stud that could put them in danger. We all have seen matches that shouldn't have happened. I also think it is up to the coach of the stud to foster an atmosphere in which they wrestle their best without trying to injure their opponent just because they can. If a coach is frustrated that they are seeing a lot of forfeits, I would reflect on whether they are promoting good hard wrestling or an atmosphere in which injury is likely.

Comments from Harvest Classic based only on results of championship matches. I don't have results of consolations so maybe some of the ones not listed and visa versa. Also if there were changes in the brackets, it was not taken into consideration. 106 Hildebrandt, Reitz, Cortez - Perfect 113 Slates beat Rickie Rodriguez 120 Black(Hob) beat Ruben Rodriguez, Black beat Rodriguez 126 Micic, Davis, Truver - Perfect (I'm betting on Davis by the end of the year if he doesn't drop to 120) 132 Carithus, Brewster beat Reitz 138 Swank (Penn) beat Bryant 145 Sebahar beat Varner, Larsen 152 Rinehart, Christenson - perfect 160 Mammolenti - perfect 170 Sopko, Slatton(Penn) beat either Bates (already beat Bates convincingly in the duel) or Vargas 182 Wiseman, Fowler - perfect 195 Woods, Scott - perfect 220 Robinson, Stohler - perfect 285 Yanez, Minkema, Manuel - perfect Good job overall

Davis looks a lot stronger this year and has always been tremendous riding with his legs. He is also a great student and I think is going to one of the military academies. Good kid unless he has his legs on you. Anybody with the rest of the results?

? Blasphemy? Explain. Iowa has had classed individual state tourneys since 1957. Since 1928 there have been 51 state champs that have gone on to be NCAA Div I National Champs. In 2011 they sold out their 24th consecutive state finals. It certainly hasn't dampened interest in wrestling. If what they are doing is so blasphemous, maybe we should learn to blaspheme.

I graduated from a HS in Iowa with 20 kids in its graduating class and am involved currently with one of the largest schools in the state. At the time I competed, Iowa had a 3 class Individual State Championship and no Dual State Championship. For us, having three classes certainly added more excitement to the season. True, competing at state in one of the lower classes always seemed to have an asterisk beside it, but overall, I think it was good for wrestling as a whole. Having the quality of competition on a daily basis in the practice room as well as the pick of the coaches, certainly gives the bigger schools an advantage even in the individual state. I am not necessarily promoting a change, although I think an ideal situation would be to have a classed individual state tournament with a round robin with the next day or the next week to determine the overall champion. I would also like a sanctioned by IHSAA classed dual tournament, although the IHWSCA tournament that we currently have is a reasonable accomodation.

My feeling, both as a wrestler (Ex) and a physician, is that if you have a chronic illness, it is your responsibility to be as healthy as possible when you take to the mat. Your asthma, in this case, needs to be under control and at the very least, use your rescue inhaler prior to starting the match. Once the match is started, either he can wrestle or he can't. Taking a break in the third period to take an additional couple whiffs on his inhaler is taking advantage of our natural inclination to accomodate. For one thing, using it frequently is potentially dangerous, and could be construed as a performance enhancing drug as albuterol also increases muscle tone and may increase reaction time. Wikopedia lists Beta 2 agonists, of which albuterol is a member, as a banned drug in the Olympics. I think some allowance can be made for asthmatics but I am not sure about that. Any inhalation taken prior to the start of the match is still very much effective for a six minute match. How ridiculous would it be to stop a 5000 meter run at the 4000 mark so that one of the runners could catch their breath and use an inhaler. I think a distinction can be made between injury time (an unexpected and reversible incapacitation) and a chronic illness which can be anticipated and treated adequately prior to competition. In the end we will be doing our wrestlers a favor as this case shows, it is either a manipulation of injury time or wrestling in the presence of a dangerous and inadequately treated disease.

I fail to grasp how wrestling a quality JV opponent somehow damages a wrestler or his future seeding unless he loses to them. If they lose them them, it was probably a good thing they didn't wrestle the varsity wrestler. I can only speak for the Penn program but on our schedule that is circulated at the start of the season it clearly states which tournaments will be JV for us and which will be Varsity. I would assume that if it is available to the general public that anyone concerned enough to complain could find out if they are interested. An attempt has been made to send the varsity to the better touneys and the JV to the less competitive ones. This can not always be predicted and I'm sure mismatches exist but our JV has not been the worst team at any competition I am aware of. My personal opinion is that if a JV team is wrestling against varsity competition, the results should be counted as a varsity match, for both wrestlers. If a team produces a team that is not competitive, they will not be invited back. I think this is all the supervision that is necessary. I commend Coach Harper in his attempt at getting the involvement of his whole team and I can see why other teams may be jealous. This is not the same as causing harm.

I'm a Penn fan but don't count Mishawaka out. It will be a barnburner as usual in their dual meet after the first of the year.

Another way of dealing with it is letting some of the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th stringers from the more experienced team get a chance to wrestle varsity against the more inexperienced team. This does several things. 1) It gives a chance for the varsity wrestlers to thank the remainder of the team who wrestle with them every day and make them better a chance to shine in the spotlight. 2) It gives the crowd a chance to see a more even match and get to know some of the other kids on the team. 3) It gives the less experienced team a chance to wrestle kids closer to their own level. I would assume that these coaches know each other and probably have contact with each other on a regular basis. I see nothing wrong with getting together a head of time and discussing the relative strengths of their kids and preventing a potentially dangerous situation of mismatched talents.