IntegratedCarp

It's interesting. As I have talked with folks up north and down south, an opinion many have felt for years keeps coming up. Namely, the ISWA is run like everybody in Indiana lives in the Indianapolis area. Reread this thread. Most of the people arguing for the 2 tournament qualifier are from Indy. Most of the people who feel disadvantaged by the 2 tournament qualifier are from the northern or southern portions of the state. Someone said 'come to the board meetings.' Sure, if you live around Indy, that is a 25 minute drive. If you live in Evansville or Elkhart, it's 3 hours one-way. I understand that 50% of the population of our state lives within 60 minutes of Indy. However, that also means 50% of the population lives 2-3 hours away. It costs people from Evansville or Elkhart about $300-$400 per trip to Indy. If I was to make any suggestion, it would be to broadcast the board meetings as a googlehangout. It doesn't cost anything. And it would give people outside Indy a chance to electronically raise their hand and offer input, so we don't end up in these situations where people in the north/south feel disadvantaged by those from the Indy area who don't seem to get it. For those of you who live in and around Indy, imagine if the ISWA told you that you must drive and get a hotel in Evansville for folkstyle state, and come to Evansville for freestyle state, and then after you have spent all day at a Saturday Indianapolis high school tournament you need to drive to Evansville and back on a Sunday for a board meeting. And btw, we have changed the rules about qualifying for freestyle state so you must travel down to Evansville at least 2 more times this year to get local qualifying tournaments. And then when you voice concern about having to drive from your home in Indy to Evansville so many times and spend so much money, those responsible for creating the situation tell you the problem is that you don't participate enough and attend enough board meetings down in Evansville. That would be quite an insulting way to treat you.

Looks like Penn should be good for several years to come. Mammolenti and Osburne are seniors. Do they have anyone coming in next year?

Let's make matches 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes. Personally, I think the 1-2-2 format we use for wrestlebacks is fine for ALL matches. Think about it. Items to consider: -There's a ton of stalling in a 6 minute match. Going to 5 minutes would vastly reduce stalling imop. -I don't believe it would make that much difference in the outcome of most matches. -Wrestlers would push the pace more, which is exactly what we want and need more of. Look when the most aggressive wrestling happens. It happens in the last 10 seconds of most periods because time is running out. It has little to do with a match being 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 minutes long. -It would value wrestling technique a little more over conditioning. Conditioning would still be a factor even at 5 minutes. However, with a 5 minute matcah an average wrestler who wins the genetic lottery by being blessed with a marathon runner's lung compacity doesn't get so much of an advantage over the skillful wrestler who works hard but doesn't have that genetic oxygen compacity gift. {Some people will hate me for saying that, but it is true.} -Tournaments would be done much more quickly. That means family's would have much more time together and not be overwhelmed by sitting at a tourney from 7am-7pm. 1 minute of clock wrestling is actually 2 minutes of real-time when you factor in all the stoppages for going out of bounds, coaches questions, false starts, etc. Think about some of these big tourneys and super duals where we have hundreds of matches, then reduce that time by 2 minutes of real-time per match. We would be done so much earlier.

Sure, you must be right... Like where I thanked all the ISWA volunteers here: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,16133.msg119709.html#msg119709 Or thanked them again here: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,16171.msg120253.html#msg120253 Or thanked Jimtown, Penn and Mishawaka here: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,16090.msg119427.html#msg119427 Obviously, I was trying to create dissention by telling people their hard work is appreciated. Btw, I volunteer at every single tournament I attend. Most importantly though, I am quite tired of people just accepting the status quo. Other states are running tournaments better than Indiana. We are improving, but need to move more quickly. I simply will not accept the tired old notion that one cannot suggest improvements, especially improvements that other states have proven work, because the pairing people are volunteers. I love Indiana wrestling. I just want us to modernize our procedures like Michigan or Wisconsin did years ago and leave the dark ages of 12 hour tournaments, missing bout sheets and waiting hours for awards behind. This isn't a 'personnel' or 'personal' issue. This is a procedural and efficiency and respect for everyone's time issue. It's not personal, it's just business.

I believe most you gentlemen are from the southern or central Indiana. Excellent news that clubs down there are using true matside pairings. However, I can say with confidence and regret that very few clubs are truly running matside pairings in northern Indiana.

I am glad to hear that! I appreciate the information. Imop, the ISWA & HYWAY should require all tournaments to do that. I have been to six tournaments this season and only witnessed it done in this matter twice. Plus, both times awards were still separate and later.

My observations on HYWAY State. Positives: 1) Overall, I was quite impressed. Nice venue, plenty of surfaces. 2) Medals were high quality and looked excellent. 3) I thought the officiating was very good. 4) 621 preregistered. I would guess there ended up with 750 wrestlers total including walk ups. 5) There were problems, but Hyway people acknowledge the problems and took ownership of it. There were no excuses. 6) The numbers alone show the enormous hunger there is for more efficiently run tournaments in this state. 7) Vastly improved quality of competition this year over last year. Needs Improvement: 1) There should be medals for the top 8 at any state level event. 2) A bracket sheet should be provided to the winner. 3) Awards were announced at random times. We went from 2-3pm without a single announcement about awards being ready. That is unacceptable. 4) If we keep an awards area, it must be larger. Too narrow an approach between Jim?s Wrestling Supply and the t-shirt sales leading into the awards/pairings area. 5) Matside pairings need to actually be matside and not in some backroom serving as the pairings/awards area. 6) Wrestlers should receive their medal from the matside pairings person when they turn in their final bout sheet. 7) We must use a staggered start time. NUWAY tournaments in all other states use staggered start times. 10 & under starts at 8 a.m. 11 & up starts at 1 p.m. Hyway kind of stepped on their own feet by not using the traditional NUWAY procedures.

Not to be a Nelly-Negative, but it feels like we need to explain what ?matside pairings? actually are. Both ISWA and HYWAY claim to be utilizing matside pairings. However, they are not using matside pairings in the way that all other NUWAY states do. Having a person sit in a pairings room 200 feet away from the gym simply does not qualify as ?matside.? Matside pairings in Michigan and other states means: 1) The pairings individual is seated at a table within 3 feet of the mat. 2) The person pairs brackets and composes bout sheets for either 2 or 4 mats. 3) All bout sheets are returned to the pairing person right next to the mat you just wrestled on. 4) Medals are handed out by the pairing person right there matside upon completion. Example, you finish bout 78 and come in 1st place. You receive your 1st place medal, as do any wrestler placing 4th-8th who is done wrestling. The true 2nd match still can take place 20 minutes later, but everyone else who is done goes home with their award. By having the individual truly SEATED MATSIDE, it eliminates many bout sheet errors. Officials don?t have to walk to some pairings room 200 feet away to correct a problem. And wrestlers get their awards immediately. Also, if you use a staggered start it eliminates traffic on the floor and their is more room to seat the matside pairings person. Some will take this information as me being mean. I do not intend it in that way. I am just attempting to educate.

How many competitors did we have this weekend?

Our family was there Saturday and wish to stay loyal to the iswa. The podium and wrestling on the same mat all day is very nice. The iswa obviously works hard to put on the event. What he is stating is accurate though. Our club had several wrestlers with extraordinarily long waits of three or more hours. With nearly 1,000 wrestlers and the old-time format being used that was just going to happen although. Mentally, I guess I was just prepared for it and knew iswa folks were giving it a strong effort, plus they are all volunteers. At the same time, having lived in Michigan before returning to Indiana, I can say from firsthand experience that Michigan runs their tournaments in a more expeditious manner. At any Michigan tournament it is rare to ever wait more than 45 minutes between matches. That is because they use a staggered start time for all age groups. By starting various ages at 8 am, 11 am and 2pm, the event becomes more manageable. Just something to consider in the future. I want to thank all the volunteers again. That is a long day and your effort is appreciated.

Ahhh, if you truly enjoy stewing in human waste, you should see a mental health physician and get on some meds.

Does anyone know what Conseco charges for a single day event? I have no idea, that's why I am asking. I am sure the ISWA asked already.

Going into this weekend and next, I just wish to send out a 'thank you' all the people working at iswa state. I will be working a table, as will many other volunteers officiating, pairing, coaching, etc. I also want to send out a big 'ol atta-boy to the iswa for separating returning state champs. That is a huge step in the right direction.

I will attend the clinic. I'm am just wondering if there are any major changes in the greco/freestyle rules this year? I have not heard of any.

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I have coached at size-wise a 5A football school, a 3A school and a 2A school. So, my experience is quite broad. One thing I believe many fail to see is that classing team state is directly linked to classing individual state for most small to moderate size programs. That is not to say we should give up on team state. Just rather the results still show a wide disparity between the class team state vs. class individual state crowd. Because of that, I think many small programs will be against classing team state until they get a classed individual state. The fear is the big programs will just go back to ignoring the problem again.

I want to say giant ?THANK YOU? to Penn, Mishawaka and Jimtown. Recently, all three of these clubs have tried new methods of pairing tournaments. Thank goodness someone in Indiana is trying to move us forward! All three clubs seemed to learn a great deal from their experiments with pairings (matside or otherwise). A few respectful suggestions: 1- Use staggered start times. 8am for elementary ages & noon for middle school (while high school season is going). Or 8am elementary, 11 am middle school, 2pm high school (once HS season complete). Staggered start times work well in other states. It will shock you how much easier the tourney is to run. 2- Do NOT use a ?check-in? system on the morning of the tourney. It just slows down the event to a crawl and delays the start by 90 minutes. In Michigan, there is no tournament check-in. If a wrestler fails to show up for his match, the table help has a ?two-bout-pass? rule. They jump to the next two matches and ?pass? over you. If the wrestler fails to show up by the end of the second bout following his, the match becomes a forfeit. No announcing names. No chasing kids. No sitting with an empty mat for 5 minutes while giving 3 calls on the speakers. Show up for your bout or FF. Once again, it will shock you how much easier the tourney is to run. 3- Have one pairings clerk for every 2-4 surfaces who is seated at those surfaces. Bout cards then don?t have to go across the gym to a pairings/staging area. The pairings person is right there and immediately is composing the new round of bout cards. Once again, I am very grateful to these clubs for being innovated. Even if it didn't work as planned the first time, don't give up! With a few proven adjustments, things will be dynamite next time around.

Agreed. And if we have an eye for an eye attitude, then we can say "Let's punish the big programs; get even with them by getting rid of team state. Let's make them suffer for awhile like we have." I am pissed at alot of these big programs too for their poor attitude about a class system over the years. I would suggest however, we get passed such immature logic and move on. The fact is, all programs big and small, would benefit from getting team and individual state into a classed system.

There are many reasons I enjoy wrestling. One of them is adventure. It is fun to wrestle new opponents, visit new countries, learn from new coaches. I think my sense of adventure is quite reasonable. Adventure can just be off the charts for some folks though. This is the most dangerous mountain trail in Spain. I know some people think wrestlers are nuts. However, this is the real definition of insanity. El camino del rey 2010

I am a major supporter of class wrestling. However, it is probably slightly inaccurate to say the big programs like beating up on the little programs. I think a more accurate assessment is that big programs do not see the problems that smaller programs face. Because the big program has lots of kids and plenty of jv guys, they do not have the field of vision smaller programs possess regarding a class system solution. Let's not forget that some of the most significant big program coaches (Tonte, Snyder and others) have publicly voiced support on this board for a classed team state.

Amen, brother. Couldn't have said it better myself. The ISWA really helped me out as a kid. I am quite loyal to them. We sure hope they get it together and start running these tournaments in a better fashion. There are plenty of Indiana kids we are losing in wrestling just because our organization can't put on a tournament with out having everyone sit there for 90 hours.

Due to the dominance of Carmel in girls swimming, many believe the sport has suffered tremendously in this state. You are right on target! This fact should be shoved down Bobby Cox throat.

Pretty much.

Maybe if you clowns at Triton actually had some decent wrestlers, we would take the time to come wrestler down there. As it stands, there's no use in us going there just pin 90% of your wrestlers.

What would you estimate the attrition rate is for wrestlers who start younger than 10 years old? To put it another way, how many kids who start wrestling prior to 10 years of age end up quitting wrestling by the time they get to high school? Personally, I would estimate the rate is about 80%. Even kids who wrestle in our program for 5 years or so, still have a high fall out by the time high school starts. Btw, this is not an anti- youth wrestling post. More just a gauge to see if other programs experience such a massive attrition.

It's an interesting and creative idea; I'll give you that. The main issue I foresee is that the IHSAA probably would not go for it. IHSAA is anti-creative. For them, it's either a class or no class system.