bog190

Much appreciated MATCAT.  Keep it up.

Also Steveson instead of Stevenson and Merrillville instead of Merriville and Definitely as opposed to Defiantly

 

I got about 20 seconds in before I aborted.

Kudos for making it 20 seconds.

So you think the mathematical evidence that has put them in the scoring range to go to IHSWCA is not legitimate, and Harrison is not deserving.     Please tell me your not on the "committee of power", because were screwed then.

 

On the Calumet regional.  The top wrestlers  are on par with Perry, Mooresville and Castle.  Both those regionals have a significantly higher level of depth and much more difficult to qualify.     The preponderance of evidence shows this.  You have to admit numbers aren't biased.

Agree 100%, you can't just overlook the depth after the top few teams.  Compare the genius scores of those two regionals, Castle is much deeper in the middle.

There are only four regionals with a higher category than Calumet, do you believe one or all of those regionals (Mooresville, North Montgomery, Castle, Perry) are weaker than Calumet?

Jay County had 17 qualifiers, three champs, two runners up and five more placers and was categorized the 3rd strongest regional in Fort Wayne (only ahead of the worst regional in the state) and in the bottom five regionals in the state and is a category 3.    

You guys are missing the point on depth, which is what the categories measure.

I remember a very well-reasoned, statistics-based analysis of the process that was written on this message board a couple years ago when a very solid Portage team was left out of consideration due to these multiplier/category issues. I don't know all of the specifics, but I believe some changes have been made every year to try to make this a fair process and predictor of dual team success, hopefully to remedy some of the early kinks that were identified with the multipliers. I appreciate what maligned and the selection committee do, but I take most issue with the fact that there is not one member of the IHSWCA State Duals selection committee who is from within 2 hours of Northwest Indiana. And without representation, I feel that NWI is judged more on the high percentage of early forfeits in sectionals, from the Gary/EC and rural Lake, Porter and LaPorte County teams, than the high end quality and depth that are coming into and out of Calumet/CP regionals and EC semi-state. I would like to better understand how the selection committee was comprised and why most areas of the state are represented on it, but not NWI. Specifically, I could be wrong, but I don't even think that any of the members are EC semi-state attendees. That is troubling to me, and I think it plays a part in categories potentially being lower than they should be for NWI.

I've had as many issues with the system as anyone, including the committee and their selections, but saying that the composition of the committee plays a part in the categories being lower for Northwest Indiana just shows a lack of understanding of the system and how the categories are developed.  

Picking out random schools and saying "look they have 2000 students and didn't have qualifier" is meaningless. 58% of 3A schools had a qualifier, 37% of 2A, and 14% of 1A.

It's amazing to me that these percentages consistently match the percentage of total student enrollment in each class. 63% - 3A 24.5% - 2A. 12.5% - 1A

Its almost as if it takes a special kid to make it to state regardless where he goes to school. And when you have 2000 kids walking the halls you're gonna end up with more special athletes.

As Y2 stated above, where do these "special athletes" go when it comes to placers and champs?  Why don't the 1a schools follow their population percentages in that area?  Every single time we have this discussion, I have posed this same question, and have yet to hear a relevant answer.  I'm open to changing my mind, but I've never heard anyone answer this question.

If things were fair obviously the 10 % of the kids who go to small schools would make up 33% of the qualifiers. Common sense.

Last I looked 11% of the population was from 1a schools, so 11% of the population, based on your logic, should produce 11% of the placers and champs, right?

Reading is hard.

182 is not a toss up Friedt may pin everyone. Chapman from Jay County may have one loss but I wasn't impressed by him enough at conference to think he can hang with Friedt

The obvious goal of any wrestler is to impress the great Thor.  

This will all come to head very soon.

What's that mean?

Definitely some great matches, a lot of disappointment with some refs. Kids were getting punched, slammed in the back of the head, pulling on head gear, grabbing fingers instead of wrist and hands. I think it was clear who some refs were there for. Very unfortunate...

That's a strong take there boss.  Fists thrown and refs just stood idly by?  That's enough to create an account just to whine about it.

Yes.

I'm surprised there were that many fingers and toes to count in Jay County.

It was quite the production.

Expanding a little on Y2's comment of semi state placers distribution by regional, below is a quick count over the last 4 years:

Qualifiers 

Jay County-71

Goshen-64

Carroll-54

Peru-35

Champs

Jay County-26

Goshen-12

Peru-10

Carroll-8

Second

Goshen-21

Jay County-14

Carroll-14

Peru-7

Third

Carroll-20

Jay County-16

Goshen-15

Peru-5

Fourth

Goshen-16

Jay County-15

Peru-13

Carroll-12

Again, quick count, don't kill me.

Great insight.

Regional categories for Team State qualifying:

Carroll - 5

Goshen - 4

Jay County - 3

Peru - 2

Barry Humble Jr and it's not even close

I'm having trouble determining if this is sarcasm.  Is it?

#FWSemiStateRules

 

Just had to try it

This is even better than before #TheCounty

#TheCounty

Just had to try it

Well one could say that those kids from 3A schools have more experience being "under the lights" or in high pressure situations. Their schedules are certainly more difficult than most 1A schools thus they get more experience wrestling in big tournaments with lots of pressure on the line and many more fans in the stands.

 

Having this experience could be the difference between making the right strategic decision with 20 secs left in the match compared to a kid who doesn't have the experience of wrestling those high pressure matches.

Sounds like an advantage for the 3A schools?

I am not sure how you can say that the returning starters isn't an arbitrary criteria when the committee selected Busco last year with 6(?) projected returning starters over a team like Eastern Hancock who had 11(?) projected returning starters.  

I'm not pro-class or anti-class, so I'm not "one of them" as you refer. I'm simply pointing to a couple flaws in the argument as it relates to fairness in qualifiers and forfeits.

 

If the NY #s show a decent bump in participation after the implementation of class wrestling and they've maintained that over the 10 year span since, then the class argument will be lock tight. Participation rates are dropping nationwide (in both single and multi class systems) so classing hasn't been sufficient to maintain prior levels of participation. which suggests there is a lot more at play than a classed system. That said if its had a demonstratable effect in NY then its going to be hard to make a logically argument against it. But comparing systems that have been classed for 20-30 (OH over 40) years and not having any pre-class data gives us an incomplete picture.

Fair enough.  Those who I am alluding to know who they are, I look forward to their responses.

Still waiting on one of you guys to explain why 1a doesn't produce 11% of the placers and champs.

I have never disagreed once that there are advantages to being a large school (for the myriad of reasons discussed ad nauseam) That said the numbers, reflect that per capita and per wrestler in the room, our 1A schools are being fairly represented at state. (9% to 11%) and 3A gets 62% of the qualifiers out of 66% of the student population and wrestlers.

 

Yes size it does matter, but when the numbers show representation rates are in line with student populations and wrestlers, then it's hard for me to see that the system isn't fair. (in respect to qualifiers)

What about placers and champs?  Why don't those fall in line with your logic?