gstemv81
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Ohio, Pennsylvania and Iowa have been powerhouse states for decades - before and after class wrestling. It's the culture. I have to believe classing has nothing to do with it. Ohio does more of what we should be doing to popularize our sport, like their incredible sportwriters and ohiowrestling.net. Y2's IndianaMat has been a big step in the right direction. This hasn't been mentioned yet but the 3-class breakdown by enrollment will have MD in the small school class (under 560). Are small schools really competitive here? I don't want to see any 70-3 dual scores at Team State. Any class "state title" won by MD would be virtually worthless. And I can predict that Yorktown and Bellmont will be the finals of the mid-size class every year, and along with MD, would have no opportunity to take on the rest of Indiana's biggest and best. St. Eds and Graham never meet in Ohio postseason, and it's a never ending source of frustration for Ohio fans.
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ESPN Article on Iowa wrestler defaulting to girl at state!
gstemv81 replied to Kleveland11's topic in Past Discussions
sarto, I respect your well reasoned arguments even if I tend to agree with awood. If I'm not mistaken, you're with Mater Dei, right? If so, do you happen to know if MD has taken a position on this issue? Could have been a predicament with different pairings at Team State considering Penn's 112, Sarah Hildebrandt. Would MD give up 6 in a team tourney at state? That's what it costs to be principled! Btw, I think your formal, professorial style on this here high school wrestling board might have some folks confused - or at least looking up 'non sequitur.' Nobody here but us wrasslers (and ex-wrasslers)! -
IHSAA State Finals being aired on WNIT South Bend right now!
gstemv81 replied to Boot's topic in Past Discussions
Cable 11 on Comcast in Northern Indiana. Just finished Tsirtsis-Montgomery at 140 as of 8:30 pm. I wish Coach Goebel were commentating alone. The "color" commentary from the nonwrestling sidekick adds nothing. -
Intriguing proposal. Question: what options would teams like Yorktown or Mater Dei who might have no interest in a classed title and want to compete with the biggest and "best" in the main event? Going to three classes does a good job of ensuring the smallest schools a meaningful chance to compete with their peers, but what of those midsize schools who want to bump with the best?
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"... Region hating refs." ;D
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bruschi, I only knew he was a Mississinewa coach because that's how he introduced himself. I don't know anything else about him. I imagine broadcasting teams you don't know is harder than it looks based on how Al Smith was doing at individual state the week before - mispronouncing names and so on. If lineup changes are made at team state these webcasters have no way of knowing that if they aren't familiar with the teams they're covering enough to recognize these wrestlers on sight.
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The announcer was the head coach for Mississinewa. Not so clueless. He did a great job on the MD-CP match but didn't have any inside knowledge on personnel injuries.
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Because MD fans always take bad calls in stride. Right.
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Informative post. Wahoo. BobP is an institution in Ohio prep news.
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Iowa probably also had all their finals matches running at the same time. Fail. Indiana does it right.
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Most of the same top 8 this year.
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Penn isn't a very good example for the single class argument - they're huge. Indian Creek went from zero qualifiers four short years ago to three under the lights. I'm not sure how big Delphi is but I never heard of them until recently and they're making it to Team State now, and with a couple kids under the lights in the last two years.
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I'd bet on Sims +8 lbs. With a seeded team state things might have been different. Crown Point would make the semis based on seeds. Say CP got Delphi first round while LN got MD (another bad first round pairing). Assuming LN can beat a fresh MD (doubtful), could they recover and then beat an untested CP next? Penn is hard to gauge. They seemed to match up with Perry real well to keep it close but I'm not at all sure they're better than LN, CP or MD.
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They are this year in terms of producing some outstanding individual success stories. Team state is a different animal, but I'm looking for solutions that might add to our traditions, not wreck them. In addition to regular season small school duals suggested above it might also be an idea for a small school shootout on the same weekend as team state, by invite only, to the top eight small schools previously eliminated from the IHSAA team state series. Not sure how this would work, possibly by ranking/polling to produce the eight geographic invitee teams to be hosted at a central location. Think Center Grove rival nearby for small schools. How about Beech Grove as host school? Recognized by IHSWCA if not IHSAA. I'm trying to be constructive here. I've got nothing against small schools. What's not to like? I'd love to see a bunch of little Bellmonts spring up but shielding them from big school competition probably isn't the way to do this. UPDATE: See MattM's post in "Never, never, never class individual state" for similar idea, executed better.
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Not a constructive response. I don't want to hear anyone bitching and moaning. I want to see small schools get with the program and do whatever Indian Creek is doing right. And with this so-called unfair current system they had three finalists under the lights. I notice that Y2 nicked me for yet another cool point. Maybe we should have a separate class for everyone in the single class doghouse. I can't compete against "The Man" who runs the board.
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All of Sims' losses in Indiana are injury defaults to Welch and the Heritage Hills state placer. Roach beat Sims 7-3 last year at 145. He'd be giving up 8 pounds to Sims this year. Probably makes him an underdog. Coach Vlink's complaint is that it doesn't make sense to award four medals for placing if the event isn't seeded.
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We can class team state and remodel the new house all we want but in the end it will be Mater Dei on the new couch, not going anywhere - and without Crown Point or LN or Perry to kick her out. I forgot, Yorktown will be living on the LazyBoy. More seriously, instead of changing something that works, how about adding something for the small schools. A statewide small school invite of Indiana's enrollment challenged schools. Ohio has a "Top Gun" dual tournament of powerhouses every year. Maybe we could have "Little Guns" or something along those lines - in early December before the weather gets too bad to travel statewide. Winner recognized as IHSWCA small school state champs. I hope this is a suggestion everyone could get behind.
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If AJ is opposed to the current team format and opposed to a classed team state, then what is he for? I just don't want to go back to the old format the individual tournament determines team championships based on three studs. Why lose an event? No team state=less wrestling.
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Bumping up two classes is a wrestler safety issue. Not that it seems to matter much at Heavyweight!
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bjax, Regional powers may change gradually over time, or maybe not. In southwest Indiana it's been MD, Reitz and Castle for as long as I can remember. In the Region things are changing because of coaching changes, right? Best example: Maldonaldo at Merrillville. If coaching is what matters, then there's less argument for classes.
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LN did great yesterday but they didn't really "prove" anything except maybe that it's better to have an easier first round matchup than to battle life and death just to make the semis.
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I don't think MD "overlooked" LN so much as let down after a draining win over Crown Point. Did LN overlook Perry Meridian in the finals? No, they just let down after their big win over MD to get there. It's hard to maintain maximum intensity every round.
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Since when is Lawrence North a "little dog?" They are close to being in the top 5 big schools in the state. LN might have been something of an underdog this year but they are a big threat every year, and have been for more than 20 years.
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It would be pretty much the same 50 schools every year. The small class finals would be MD versus Yorktown every year, after they get done blowing away everyone in their watered down path to State. We would just have a new set of dominant teams every year. Team State is worth doing on its own merits. Class proponents are defining success as winning some type of classed team state championship when they should be looking for other definitions. Like winning their conference.
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Right now about 30 teams are viable in the Team State series, according to Bobby Cox. With two classes, about 50 teams would be viable - not enough to make Team State worth doing. Imagine how disappointed all those small schools would be when they discover they can't hack it even in a classed environment.