Girls Need Seeding

[pugsley]

The growth of girls wrestling over the past decade has been amazing and I believe it has grown exponentially this year, but not having tournaments seeded is ridiculous. Numerous times this year I have seen state ranked girls meet in the first or second round, resulting in a wrestler only being able to achieve a finish of 5th place. 
     This weekend in a weight class of 35 wrestlers, the #2 and #8 wrestled in a first round match in one of three 16 man brackets. This match up was brought to the attention of the tournament director and he said “This is the last bracket we are building and we are doing our best.” 
     If a tournament is seeded properly then the placement rounds should be the most competitive and beneficial matches for the girls. 
 

This has to improve!

[XCard]

I do think as we progress to the sanctioning of Girls wrestling, you will see more tournaments using a seeding criteria when hosting a tournament. Although it seems like a simple separation criteria could solve the problem, at this point, what does it matter if you wrestle them early or later, it is still a quality match that they are wrestling.

 

My hats off to all of the schools that have hosted a tournament this year. Running any type of tournament can be challenging, I am sure there will be hiccups. Kudos to those that stayed and showed some patience. 

[pugsley]

XCard, I completely agree that every school running a tournament is doing so to improve women’s wrestling. The benefit for wrestlers competing in a tournament is that the final match they wrestle should be against someone of similar wrestling ability. When #1 and #2 meet in the first or second round the girls in the consolations are not getting matches that will improve their wrestling.

[SSHS]

I completely agree. I noticed the exact same thing at pretty much every girls tournament so far this season. I don't know why folks aren't just using IndianaMat's rankings or having coaches provide seeding criteria. It's very obvious who the top 3 or 4 girls are in each weight class and there's often a massive drop-off in ability after those top several girls with much of the bracket populated by first-year wrestlers. It shouldn't be hard to separate them so they meet in the finals instead of one of them getting 5th place for no reason.

[XCard]

In about 2 years when this is sanctioned and we have a more solid base of tournaments, meaning we know where and what weekends they will be, who is attending them...if then there is still an issue with girls not being seeded, then I will agree, ridiculous. I do agree that ideally, your last match in a tournament should be a pretty competitive one if there is some separation criteria implemented. I do want to reiterate I also agreed that a simple criteria could be implemented to solve this issue. 

 

I guess my discussion here is how important is it really if they are still getting a quality match? SSHS,  I agree that the drop-off in ability is huge in girls wrestling, as I have found it to be in most women's sports. The pool is just not as deep as the boys side and the different tiers of talent level have some big drop offs. Seeded or unseeded, that quality match is more than likely going to happen at some point and 2-3 other matches may be completely dominated by the better girls. Quite frankly, I am just happy to see more tournaments being hosted and these ladies getting an opportunity to showcase their talents. 

 

 

[SSHS]

Agreed. The most important thing is that there are numerous tournaments this year and the opportunities are increasing dramatically. It just seems like putting the top girls on opposite sides of the bracket from one another so the placements reflect their actual ordering and the finals are competitive is such an easy no-brainer thing to do. Then again, I don't run tournaments so what do I know!

[Matt Time]

There are about a dozen tournaments this year. The centrally located ones are drawing 300 or more girls from all over the state.  I can see the difficulty to seed beyond the handful of known top tier performers. I suspect seeding will get easier as tournaments start to spread out across the state and get more regionalized. More girls-only records and head to heads to evaluate too. Until then, I particularly enjoyed the one that blocked girls by weight into groups of six and ran round robin. That was a smart move. 

[SSHS]

Speaking of seeding, anyone know how the girls state tournament will be seeded? In prior years, there was only one north and one south regional so the two one-seeds were just put opposite from one another on the bracket. This year with the new semi-state model, there will be four one-seeds so it's unclear to me how they will set-up the state brackets to determine which specific one-seeds would meet up in the semi's vs finals.

[roundtablesquires]

My biggest concern right now is the regional seedings.  Why not have seed meetings for regionals to avoid the two best wrestlers competing in first or second round (North Regional last year at 250 had the state finalists meet in first round match)

[MattM]

14 hours ago, roundtablesquires said:

My biggest concern right now is the regional seedings.  Why not have seed meetings for regionals to avoid the two best wrestlers competing in first or second round (North Regional last year at 250 had the state finalists meet in first round match)

I think most of the seeding could be accomplished without much of a seed meeting if the coaches would submit accurate information.  Basing the seeds from this years girl vs girl results (using overall record including boys results maybe somewhat helpful but girl vs girl seem like it would prevent any discrepancy issues) and last years state series qualifiers and placers you should be able to identify and separate most of the top girls so they don’t meet until at least the semi-finals.  With more opportunities  you should have some head to head and several common opponents to help sort out the top 4 or 5 entries at each weight, that is if the coaches would send it in. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by MattM

[roundtablesquires]

1 hour ago, MattM said:

I think most of the seeding could be accomplished without much of a seed meeting if the coaches would submit accurate information.  Basing the seeds from this years girl vs girl results (using overall record including boys results maybe somewhat helpful but girl vs girl seem like it would prevent any discrepancy issues) and last years state series qualifiers and placers you should be able to identify and separate most of the top girls so they don’t meet until at least the semi-finals.  With more opportunities  you should have some head to head and several common opponents to help sort out the top 4 or 5 entries at each weight, that is if the coaches would send it in. 

I agree but are they even making that a possibility for regionals bc I see that seed criteria for state but not Regionals 

[MattM]

28 minutes ago, roundtablesquires said:

I agree but are they even making that a possibility for regionals bc I see that seed criteria for state but not Regionals 

I’d hope this attempt to seed the competition would happen at Regionals.  But state separation (I don’t like referring to it as seeding) is likely just going to be based on what placement the girls got at Regionals, just like the boys event. I’m side it may cause a couple lobsided results but we see that at the semi-stete and state level for boys at some weights too.  

[littlevito]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:29 PM, SSHS said:

Speaking of seeding, anyone know how the girls state tournament will be seeded? In prior years, there was only one north and one south regional so the two one-seeds were just put opposite from one another on the bracket. This year with the new semi-state model, there will be four one-seeds so it's unclear to me how they will set-up the state brackets to determine which specific one-seeds would meet up in the semi's vs finals.

I will be seeding all 4 regionals. I have pretty much about 90% of all the girls results this season. The only way seeing can start seeding at tournaments if coaches start posting results. There have been a lot of duals and round robin type weekday matches for girls this year, and no results posted for them. 
 

I have started to get more coaches messaging me this year with info for rankings, but until coaches start skiing their past and put more effort into it, it will be difficult.

 

So any info you think I need, please send it. Also, put records against girls and records against boys. Some of the top girls aren't able to compete inn the girl internationals cause they are in the boys lineups. I've had some of those coaches keeping in touch.

Edited December 30, 2022 by littlevito

[roundtablesquires]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:53 PM, littlevito said:

I will be seeding all 4 regionals. I have pretty much about 90% of all the girls results this season. The only way seeing can start seeding at tournaments if coaches start posting results. There have been a lot of duals and round robin type weekday matches for girls this year, and no results posted for them. 
 

I have started to get more coaches messaging me this year with info for rankings, but until coaches start skiing their past and put more effort into it, it will be difficult.

 

So any info you think I need, please send it. Also, put records against girls and records against boys. Some of the top girls aren't able to compete inn the girl internationals cause they are in the boys lineups. I've had some of those coaches keeping in touch.

Thank you this information is helpful, are results only from high school season relevant or do off-season head to head or national level tournament have any relevance to seeding for regionals? we appreciate all your effort and will work on doing a better job of giving you all the information you need

[littlevito]

Just the season results, the off-season results helped with state rankings coming into the season.

[roundtablesquires]

46 minutes ago, littlevito said:

Just the season results, the off-season results helped with state rankings coming into the season.

ok I think you have everything from us, I posted any wins over ranked opponents, let me know if you need overall records for the year, all my girls have wrestled girls vs girls only this year. 

 

sorry I know you're busy just out of curiosity, do you know when brackets will be posted? 

 

always nice to see ahead of time to work on game planning 

 

appreciate everything you and everyone else involved in girls wrestling do for the sport

[littlevito]

I'm hoping to be done seeding tonight or early tomorrow morning, then it will be up to the track ladies to make up brackets.