Can this classed team state format work ?

[thecomets]

AAATop 64 4 locations 8 teams @ each  winner advances to state

 

AANext 96 12 locations 8 teams @ each winner advances to 3 team reginial

                                          3 team double dual winner advances to state

 

ARemaining                  16 locations  9 or 10  teams @ each winner advances to 4 team reginial

                                            4 team regional dual winner advances to state

                                                 

                                                                  4 teams / class at team state

Class team sectionals would be wrestled last Saturday in December  (no earlier than 12/28) or first Saturday in January (no after than 1/3).

Team regional would remain on Wednesday after individual sectional.

Blind draw in to brackets 10 days prior to each tournament level.

Tournament would not count against team limits

                       

[ENoblewrestling]

AAATop 64 4 locations 8 teams @ each  winner advances to state

 

AANext 96 12 locations 8 teams @ each winner advances to 3 team reginial

                                           3 team double dual winner advances to state

 

ARemaining                  16 locations  9 or 10  teams @ each winner advances to 4 team reginial

                                            4 team regional dual winner advances to state

                                                   

                                                                  4 teams / class at team state

Class team sectionals would be wrestled last Saturday in December  (no earlier than 12/28) or first Saturday in January (no after than 1/3).

Team regional would remain on Wednesday after individual sectional.

Blind draw in to brackets 10 days prior to each tournament level.

Tournament would not count against team limits

                         

 

I believe it was classed it would have to be done in equal numbers like the other sports.  So something like 103 per class.

[Y2CJ41]

The easiest way to do it

4 classes with 16 sectionals in each class

Each sectional would have 4-6 teams

 

Tuesday- Sectional champions determined on two mats, three rounds possibly with 5 or 6 teams in each sectional

Thursday- Four sectionals feed into a regional, two rounds determine regional champion(4 regional champions)

Saturday- Four regional champions in each class meet at team state on four mats

Round 1- Class A and AA Semi-finals

Round 2- Class AAA and AAAA semi-finals

Round 3- All finals on four mats

 

This all done before the individual state series pushing it back one week.

[Galagore]

The easiest way to do it

4 classes with 16 sectionals in each class

Each sectional would have 4-6 teams

 

Tuesday- Sectional champions determined on two mats, three rounds possibly with 5 or 6 teams in each sectional

Thursday- Four sectionals feed into a regional, two rounds determine regional champion(4 regional champions)

Saturday- Four regional champions in each class meet at team state on four mats

Round 1- Class A and AA Semi-finals

Round 2- Class AAA and AAAA semi-finals

Round 3- All finals on four mats

 

This all done before the individual state series pushing it back one week.

 

If a proposal like that can't gain momentum, we don't stand a chance.

[Y2CJ41]

Positives about the 4 class proposal mentioned

#1- the IHSAA loves the all-in format, this satisfies it

#2- Minimal travel for 80% of the teams

#3- team state finished in a week's time, like many states

#4- every team at least gets one match that week and if knocked out gets the rest of the week to prepare for the individual series

#5- we can still presumably use Center Grove for the Finals with only needing four mats per round to use

#6- no added weeks to the tournament series

 

As far as 4 vs. 3 vs. 2 classes.  This is the easiest way to get it done in 6 days.  With a three or even two class system it would take more than a week to accomplish this. 

[CoachW33]

Positives about the 4 class proposal mentioned

#1- the IHSAA loves the all-in format, this satisfies it

#2- Minimal travel for 80% of the teams

#3- team state finished in a week's time, like many states

#4- every team at least gets one match that week and if knocked out gets the rest of the week to prepare for the individual series

#5- we can still presumably use Center Grove for the Finals with only needing four mats per round to use

#6- no added weeks to the tournament series

 

As far as 4 vs. 3 vs. 2 classes.  This is the easiest way to get it done in 6 days.  With a three or even two class system it would take more than a week to accomplish this. 

 

 

How would this affect the individual side? Would you propose 4 classes there as well?

[Y2CJ41]

I would propose only two classes on the individual side.

 

This proposal would be for strictly watering down the team side and leaving the individual side to be a full out toughman contest where we get our precious true champion.

[MattM]

If we could exend the seaon out another week or so we could fit in more of a true dual championship from round 1, but under the current system we would still need to cram it in the existing time frames.

 

Here was my proposal from a different thread if we wanted to have a class team event but continue on with a none-class individual tournament.  It may be appealing to those who do not want to completely overhaul the current system (like some in the IHSAA) by keeping everying relitively the same aside from some slight team sectional re-alignments.

 

3 Class Division

Individual sectionals consists of:

3-5 Teams from large class division

3-5 Team from middle class division

3-5 Team from small class division

      * the actual team number break down will depend on what area you are in.

 

2 Class Divsion

(But I don't think this may be broke up enough to realistally sustain and grow the sport through the team tournament)

5-7 teams from large class division

5-7 team from small class division

      * the actual team number break down will depend on what area you are in.

 

Wrestle a regular sectional tournament as we currently do..

Award a sectional title to whatever team has the most sectional tournament point in each class.

We can decide in this system if porochrial and private school have some type of student multiplier or are just moved up.

Have each team class winner move on their respective team regional matches.  

Have the top individuals reguarless of class move on to the individual team tournament.

 

In most cases we will still see many of the same teams go to state every year in each of the divisions.  But in the middle and smaller division things will change more.  Plus in many areas you will see more changes from year to year in who win the sectional and regional titles.  That means more coaches, schools  schools and communities can use it as  publicity for the sport.  This will help team state grow the sport at the lower levels more than it does now.  All of which while still keeping a individual state tournament as one class.

[ENoblewrestling]

I will throw mine out there for consideration.

 

3 divisions

103 teams per division

Wrestle a 6 or 7 team sectional (16 sectionals)

Wrestle all of the sectionals in one night- it would be three rounds, think an eight team bracket

 

The 16 sectioanls go down to eight regionals one match winner goes to state finals

 

8 teams at the finals in each class wrestle it out like we do now.

This could realistically be done in a week, but we would need a bigger gym to have eight teams from three divisions there.  I think the three classes would break it up enough, but not too much.  I t would produce three very competitive events.

 

Here is what I thought up for 1A with teams put into sectionals.

http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,12319.0.html

[Y2CJ41]

I will throw mine out there for consideration.

 

3 divisions

103 teams per division

Wrestle a 6 or 7 team sectional (16 sectionals)

Wrestle all of the sectionals in one night- it would be three rounds, think an eight team bracket

 

The 16 sectioanls go down to eight regionals one match winner goes to state finals

 

8 teams at the finals in each class wrestle it out like we do now.

This could realistically be done in a week, but we would need a bigger gym to have eight teams from three divisions there.  I think the three classes would break it up enough, but not too much.  I t would produce three very competitive events.

 

Here is what I thought up for 1A with teams put into sectionals.

http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,12319.0.html

Please list the 48 gyms in the state that can hold four mats.

[thecomets]

This data may be a year or two old but the numbers should be close.

1 Howe Military 68 A

2 Indiana School for Blind 75 A

3 Indiana School for Deaf 97 A

4 White's 120 A

5 Christian Academy of Indiana 157 A

6 Daleville 199 A

7 Turkey Run 223 A

8 Laf. Central Catholic 227 A

9 Tri 256 A

10 Whiting 264 A

11 North Vermillion 269 A

12 Caston 273 A

13 Blue River Valley 276 A

14 Indianapolis Lutheran 287 A

15 Southern Wells 287 A

16 Guerin Catholic 291 A

17 Rockville 291 A

18 Covington 293 A

19 West Central 294 A

20 Monroe Central 306 A

21 Wes-Del 306 A

22 North White 308 A

23 South Newton 308 A

24 Tecumseh 312 A

25 Randolph Southern 313 A

26 New Washington 314 A

27 Rossville 314 A

28 Union City 315 A

29 Triton 316 A

30 Pioneer 318 A

31 Clinton Prairie 323 A

32 Tri Central 323 A

33 Oakland City Wood Memorial 329 A

34 Lapel 333 A

35 Culver Community 338 A

36 Clinton Central 340 A

37 Eastern Hancock 346 A

38 Carroll (Flora) 352 A

39 Cam. City Lincoln 366 A

40 North Miami 370 A

41 Indianapolis Scecina 371 A

42 Fremont 372 A

43 Northeastern 379 A

44 Adams Central 384 A

45 River Forest 388 A

46 Milan 392 A

47 Wapahani 392 A

48 Hagarstown 401 A

49 Lake Station Edison 408 A

50 Fountain Central 409 A

51 Sheridan 410 A

52 Park Tudor 411 A

53 Southwood 412 A

54 Northfield 418 A

55 Eastern (Greentown) 419 A

56 Laville 419 A

57 Westview 419 A

58 South Adams 432 A

59 Churubusco 433 A

60 Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter 441 A

61 Eastside 443 A

62 Hammond Bishop Noll 444 A

63 South Spencer 448 A

64 Central Noble 453 A

65 Seeger 455 A

66 Bremen 456 A

67 Monrovia 456 A

68 South Putnam 456 A

69 Taylor 457 A

70 Knightstown 459 A

71 Shenandoah 459 A

72 Wabash 462 A

73 Winamac 462 A

74 Frankton 465 A

75 Cloverdale 467 A

76 Bluffton 469 A

77 Forest Park 473 A

78 Southwestern (Hanover) 474 A

79 Triton Central 479 A

80 Winchester 487 A

81 North Knox 489 A

82 Manchester 491 A

83 North Judson (San Prairie) 493 A

84 Providence 497 A

85 Union County 502 A

86 Speedway 504 A

87 North Newton 505 A

88 Paoli 511 A

89 Woodlan 512 A

90 Centerville 516 A

91 Cascade 518 A

92 Garrett 518 A

93 Lawrenceburg 518 A

94 Delphi 522 A

95 Oak Hill 522 A

96 Tell City 526 A

97 Madison Grant 530 A

98 Boone Grove 531 A

99 Eastern (Pekin) 531 A

100 Cass 532 A

101 North Posey 540 A

102 Prairie Heights 543 A

103 Tri West 544 A

104 Alexandria 545 A

105 Ft. Wayne Bishop Luers 553 A

106 Fairfield 558 A

107 Indianapolis Washington 563 A

108 Evansville Mater Dei 564 A

109 Indian Creek 565 A

110 Jimtown 565 A

111 Hanover Central 570 A

112 Tipton 570 A

113 North Putnam 577 A

114 Elwood 578 A

115 Mitchell 583 A

116 Whitko 584 A

117 South Vermillion 585 A

118 Harding 588 A

119 Northwestern 591 A

120 Southridge 601 A

121 Sullivan 601 A

122 Rensselear Central 602 A

123 Rochester 608 A

124 Glenn 609 A

125 Greeencastle 612 A

126 Western Boone 612 A

127 Princeton 615 A

128 Eastbrook 626 A

129 Greensburg 628 A

130 Indianapolis Howe Academy 628 A

131 Southmont 628 A

132 Knox 630 A

133 Gibson Southern 638 A

134 Heritage 638 A

135 Salem 638 A

136 Charlestown 649 A

137 Ft. Wayne Concordia 654 A

138 West Noble 664 A

139 Andrean 668 A

140 Pike Central 670 A

141 Benton Central 672 A

142 West Lafayette 679 A

143 Mississinewa 681 A

144 Batesville 688 A

145 West Vigo 689 A

146 Calumet 696 A

147 North Montgomery 706 A

148 Yorktown 711 A

149 Tippecanoe Valley 718 A

150 Lakeland 721 A

1 Macanoquah 723 AA

2 Brown County 726 AA

3 Hamilton Heights 728 AA

4 Crawfordsville 731 AA

5 Beech Grove 732 AA

6 Peru 735 AA

7 Blackford 741 AA

8 Gary Wirt 741 AA

9 Corydon Central 743 AA

10 Washington 754 AA

11 Indianapolis Bishop Chatard 761 AA

12 Danville 763 AA

13 Leo 769 AA

14 Culver Academies 772 AA

15 Heritage Hills 781 AA

16 South Bend St. Joseph's 785 AA

17 Western 791 AA

18 Hammond Clark 798 AA

19 Mishawaka Marian 801 AA

20 Gary Roosevelt 811 AA

21 Twin Lakes 819 AA

22 Vincennes Lincoln 819 AA

23 Mt. Vernon 834 AA

24 Rushville 836 AA

25 Evansville Memorial 837 AA

26 Norwell 842 AA

27 New Prairie 860 AA

28 Hammond Gavit 869 AA

29 Edgewood 870 AA

30 Scottsburg 879 AA

31 Evansville Bosse 886 AA

32 Angola 892 AA

33 NorthWood 893 AA

34 Bellmont 894 AA

35 Gary Wallace 913 AA

36 Delta 921 AA

37 Boonville 936 AA

38 Frankfort 946 AA

39 Franklin County 955 AA

40 Griffith 962 AA

41 Owen Valley 978 AA

42 South Dearborn 984 AA

43 New Haven 985 AA

44 Ft. Wayne Elmhurst 1016 AA

45 Lebanon 1016 AA

46 Ft. Wayne Wayne 1024 AA

47 New Palestine 1035 AA

48 Plymouth 1050 AA

49 Mt. Vernon (Fortville) 1057 AA

50 Jasper 1064 AA

51 Ft. Wayne Bishop Dwenger 1069 AA

52 Madison 1069 AA

53 Hammond 1080 AA

54 Shelbyville 1097 AA

55 Wawasee 1097 AA

56 Kankakee Valley 1107 AA

57 Roncalli 1111 AA

58 Columbia City 1125 AA

59 Muncie Southside 1129 AA

60 Indianapolis Northwest 1140 AA

61 Muncie Central 1146 AA

62 New Castle 1160 AA

63 Highland 1174 AA

64 Pendleton Heights 1177 AA

65 Greenwood 1183 AA

66 Hammond Morton 1186 AA

67 Northview 1188 AA

68 East Noble 1198 AA

69 Connersville 1200 AA

70 Northridge 1226 AA

71 Jay County 1231 AA

72 Hobart 1234 AA

73 Indianapolis Manual 1239 AA

74 Seymour 1244 AA

75 Lowell 1247 AA

76 Plainfield 1264 AA

77 DeKalb 1285 AA

78 Indianapolis Cathedral 1286 AA

79 Logansport 1313 AA

80 Gary Westside 1320 AA

81 Indianapolis Broad Ripple 1334 AA

82 Greenfield Central 1347 AA

83 Mooresville 1354 AA

84 Evansville Reitz 1395 AA

85 East Central 1404 AA

86 Franklin Community 1409 AA

87 Marion 1414 AA

88 Whiteland 1420 AA

89 East Chicago Central 1433 AA

90 Evansville Harrison 1458 AA

91 Westfield 1460 AA

92 South Bend Washington 1465 AA

93 Evansville Central 1473 AA

94 Zionsville 1474 AA

95 Concord 1493 AA

96 Columbus East 1501 AA

1 South Bend Clay 1502 AAA

2 Jennings County 1511 AAA

3 Anderson Higland 1512 AAA

4 Ft. Wayne South Side 1521 AAA

5 Evansville North 1524 AAA

6 South Bend Riley 1525 AAA

7 Indianapolis Arlington 1530 AAA

8 Ft. Wayne Northside 1547 AAA

9 Anderson 1549 AAA

10 Bloomington North 1565 AAA

11 Munster 1582 AAA

12 Decatur Central 1616 AAA

13 Bedford N. Lawrence 1627 AAA

14 Richmond 1629 AAA

15 Harrison (West Laf) 1640 AAA

16 South Bend Adams 1644 AAA

17 Goshen 1676 AAA

18 Mishawaka 1692 AAA

19 McCuthcheon 1713 AAA

20 Floyd Central 1714 AAA

21 Martinsville 1764 AAA

22 Castle 1786 AAA

23 Carroll (Ft.Wayne) 1808 AAA

24 Elkhart Central 1826 AAA

25 Bloomington South 1832 AAA

26 Elkhart Memorial 1880 AAA

27 Fishers 1888 AAA

28 Southport 1889 AAA

29 Terre Haute South 1921 AAA

30 Huntington North 1937 AAA

31 Chesterton 1942 AAA

32 LaPorte 1981 AAA

33 Warsaw 2019 AAA

34 Kokomo 2026 AAA

35 Valparaiso 2026 AAA

36 Michigan City 2030 AAA

37 Ft. Wayne Snider 2032 AAA

38 Columbus North 2035 AAA

39 Homestead 2052 AAA

40 Brownsburg 2077 AAA

41 Jeffersonville 2079 AAA

42 Perry Meridian 2132 AAA

43 Terre Haute North 2134 AAA

44 Noblesville 2141 AAA

45 Indianapolis Arsenal Tech 2183 AAA

46 New Albany 2192 AAA

47 Avon 2235 AAA

48 Center Grove 2245 AAA

49 Franklin Central 2251 AAA

50 Hamilton Southeastern 2263 AAA

51 Crown Point 2289 AAA

52 Ft. Wayne Northrop 2294 AAA

53 Lawrence Central 2307 AAA

54 Lafayette Jefferson 2337 AAA

55 Merrillville 2393 AAA

56 Portage 2534 AAA

57 Lawrence North 2853 AAA

58 Pike 2864 AAA

59 Lake Central 2978 AAA

60 Penn 3331 AAA

61 North Central (Indpls) 3373 AAA

62 Warren Central 3896 AAA

63 Carmel 4001 AAA

64 Ben Davis 4495 AAA

 

[ENoblewrestling]

Please list the 48 gyms in the state that can hold four mats.

You would only need three mats, with 7 and six team sectionals there would be a bye for one team in each sectional thus you would only have three opening round match-ups. For a seven team sectional you would have one bye in the opening round and need 3 mats, six teams two byes and two mats.

[Y2CJ41]

Then name 48 schools where they can fit 3 mats on the main floor, with ample seating for 100 people around those mats.  I know Churubusco would be quite a tight fit. The IHSAA does not want to do more work and try to figure out certain sectionals can have seven teams and certain ones can have six teams.  Can you imagine someone having to call 310 schools and first off seeing if they would like to host a sectional and secondly trying to figure out if they can hold three mats comfortably.  

 

Add to that it will cost the IHSAA 3X more to have a 3 class tournament with 24 teams going to state.  Yet another thing the IHSAA does not want to do.

 

Also with the possibility of a seven team sectional you have a referee problem as you will then need quite a few more refs than you would if you were running just two mats.  

 

Quite a lot of work for the IHSAA when they don't want to do the work, IMO.  They would rather just axe the team series than do all that work.

[ENoblewrestling]

Then name 48 schools where they can fit 3 mats on the main floor, with ample seating for 100 people around those mats.  I know Churubusco would be quite a tight fit. The IHSAA does not want to do more work and try to figure out certain sectionals can have seven teams and certain ones can have six teams.  Can you imagine someone having to call 310 schools and first off seeing if they would like to host a sectional and secondly trying to figure out if they can hold three mats comfortably.  

 

Add to that it will cost the IHSAA 3X more to have a 3 class tournament with 24 teams going to state.  Yet another thing the IHSAA does not want to do.

 

Also with the possibility of a seven team sectional you have a referee problem as you will then need quite a few more refs than you would if you were running just two mats.  

 

Quite a lot of work for the IHSAA when they don't want to do the work, IMO.  They would rather just axe the team series than do all that work.

 

What about from a competitive statndppoint?  I feel that all three divisions would be very competitive and have some quality wrestling under the three team format.  Under a four team that bottom classs could be pretty weak and feature a few forfiets even in the finals.  Your propsal would also take 16 more sectional sites than mine would.  They all have flaws you could find in them.  Why are you only going after this propsal?  Is it the structure (sectionals, regionals, state) or are you just against the 3 class set-up?

[Y2CJ41]

A couple years ago Bellmont made it to team state with a forfeit in the line-up. 

 

I don't care about a competition standpoint, I care about what the IHSAA will say yes or no to.  They do not want to any more work than needed, so you have to have it as easy as possible.

 

The best proposal would be a two class individual and team tournament

16 sectionals (8-12 teams) in each class

 

Team(Per class)

16 sectional champions

4 Regionals with 4 teams

4 regional champions advance to Team state

 

Individual(per class)

16 sectionals

4 Regionals

1 State

 

This cuts down a week of the tournament and has the same amount of teams at state.

[ENoblewrestling]

You know Y2 sometimes I start to debate with you on here because you attack everything that I bring up.  I acctually dont think the four team break down would be too bad.  I guess I didn't realize who all would be in each class.  Your still looking at a 77 or 78 team class which would still provide a competitive tournament.  While I would prefer the three team, the four team is a viable option as well.  I do think that the 2 team is not a big enough breakdown to really cause change.  The tournament that started this discussion I dont see as viable because of the seeming randomness of the breakdown of teams.  Why would one class be larger than the other? 

[Y2CJ41]

I would prefer a 3 class system, but I am looking at it from a feasibility standpoint within the IHSAA.  

 

A two class system coupled with a two class individual state would cause quite a bit of change.  On top of that the IHSAA would love to work one less week and get the same or better $$$$ results.  Of course who wouldn't?

 

The IHSAA classes all sports in equal or as close to equal as possible classes.  I don't think trying to change the whole way the IHSAA does things will fly.