Coaches changing schools

[AJ]

Is your first sentence an admission that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

No, it is not an admission because I am not arguing for the sake of argument.  It is just showing that Y2 and you seem to discredit anything immediately that you do not agree with and slander it with such things as saying the person is just arguing for the sake of arguing. 

[KarlHungus]

So are you saying if a Dekalb, or Carroll, or Snider came open, a big school near Garrett you'd look into it?

 

i would hope that any coach that wanted a realistic chance of team success on a year in year out basis would.

[AJ]

Bluffton has won ZERO sectional titles

Adams Central has won three sectional titles and one regional title

Adams Central has qualified more than three wrestlers for state only twice and only once had three or more state placers.

 

Hardly two state level teams when between them they have four IHSAA trophies to show for it.

 

 

Adams Central was once a top 10 wrestling program.

 

They just had to wrestle a top 3 wrestling program all the time in the sectional.  (think Bellmont was in their sectional)

 

 

[ENoblewrestling]

certainly not.  Hope i didn't give the impression that anyone ever would do something that silly.

 

Would you take the Carroll job if offered?

 

Im all about getting a full time teaching job that is what's most important to me.  If I were full time at Busco I can honestly say I wouldn't.  I want to win sectionals and regionals too, but I like Busco, and I dont see why with hard work we can't be where those giants like Whitko and Garrett are now.

[AJ]

Yorktown gives hope that one out of 10 years you can do something special and that is if all the chips fall into the right places.  If one of their studs goes down to injury during the season or one flunks off the team they aren't at team state.

 

Yorktown has been competitive on the team level for more than one year.  They were actually favored to defeat Bellmont a few times but was not able to pull out the win.  Just because they did not beat one of the top teams in the state, Bellmont which is small to medium size school as well, does not mean this year was a fluke or a one shot thing.

 

Yorktown had already been to team state a few times before this, under the old alignment.

[Y2CJ41]

I didn't give you any maybes.  But you can take the maybes away from y2's post and those would all be reasons why homestead is a better program.  Homestead also fills all their weight classes.

 

So do a lot of schools Blufftons size,  they've done it before.

 

Yorktown gives hope that one out of 10 years you can do something special and that is if all the chips fall into the right places.  If one of their studs goes down to injury during the season or one flunks off the team they aren't at team state.

So then what about next year,  A lot of people have Yorktown being riht back were they were tis year.

Bellmont is the early favorite since Yorktown will be losing eight seniors including four state qualifiers.

[Y2CJ41]

Adams Central was once a top 10 wrestling program.

 

They just had to wrestle a top 3 wrestling program all the time in the sectional.  (think Bellmont was in their sectional)

 

 

A top 10 team maybe once when they had like four state placers.  Other than that two or three state placers doesn't make you a top 10 team.

[KarlHungus]

No, it is not an admission because I am not arguing for the sake of argument.  It is just showing that Y2 and you seem to discredit anything immediately that you do not agree with and slander it with such things as saying the person is just arguing for the sake of arguing. 

 

Since you are not arguing for the sake of arguing I can only assume you are clueless and can't identify that homestead is currently a better program than Homestead. 

 

Arguing for the sake of arguing does not in itself discredit or slander the argument.

 

A big part of debate is about discrediting the other sides argument so I don't know why you would make a point of calling attention to y2 or I doing such.

[Y2CJ41]

Yorktown has been competitive on the team level for more than one year.  They were actually favored to defeat Bellmont a few times but was not able to pull out the win.  Just because they did not beat one of the top teams in the state, Bellmont which is small to medium size school as well, does not mean this year was a fluke or a one shot thing.

 

Yorktown had already been to team state a few times before this, under the old alignment.

Being competitive and winning are two different things.  I am competitive with Michael Jordan in basketball for the first 30 seconds.

[KarlHungus]

I didn't give you any maybes.  But you can take the maybes away from y2's post and those would all be reasons why homestead is a better program.  Homestead also fills all their weight classes.

 

So do a lot of schools Blufftons size,  they've done it before.

I didn't give you any maybes.  But you can take the maybes away from y2's post and those would all be reasons why homestead is a better program.  Homestead also fills all their weight classes.

 

So do a lot of schools Blufftons size,  they've done it before.

 

Yorktown gives hope that one out of 10 years you can do something special and that is if all the chips fall into the right places.  If one of their studs goes down to injury during the season or one flunks off the team they aren't at team state.

So then what about next year,  A lot of people have Yorktown being riht back were they were tis year.

 

That was an exact reference to why Homestead is a better program than Bluffton.  What other school can do is irrelevant to that specific question.

 

So if yorktown can do it, it sounds like busco could to.  Sounds to me like you are wavering on your support of team class??

[KarlHungus]

Im all about getting a full time teaching job that is what's most important to me.  If I were full time at Busco I can honestly say I wouldn't.  I want to win sectionals and regionals too, but I like Busco, and I dont see why with hard work we can't be where those giants like Whitko and Garrett are now.

 

So you don't see the potential at Carroll to win it every year?  Or Columbia City.

[KarlHungus]

Adams Central was once a top 10 wrestling program.

 

They just had to wrestle a top 3 wrestling program all the time in the sectional.  (think Bellmont was in their sectional)

 

 

 

Is there any evidence of your first statement?

[KarlHungus]

Yorktown has been competitive on the team level for more than one year.  They were actually favored to defeat Bellmont a few times but was not able to pull out the win.  Just because they did not beat one of the top teams in the state, Bellmont which is small to medium size school as well, does not mean this year was a fluke or a one shot thing.

 

Yorktown had already been to team state a few times before this, under the old alignment.

 

bellmont is not small

[ENoblewrestling]

I see the potential I see it here to.  I think that there is a lot more potential at those schools there I agree with that.  

[AJ]

bellmont is not small

 

i said small to medium....

 

it is all in what you are comparing it too....

[AJ]

Since you are not arguing for the sake of arguing I can only assume you are clueless and can't identify that homestead is currently a better program than Homestead. 

 

Explain to me how they are a better program.  What have they done that has elevated them to such a higher wrestling status than Bluffton?

 

 

 

A big part of debate is about discrediting the other sides argument so I don't know why you would make a point of calling attention to y2 or I doing such.

 

Yes, you are correct. However, discrediting an argument is different than not acknowleding the argument.

 

 

[KarlHungus]

i said small to medium....

 

it is all in what you are comparing it too....

 

how bout you compare them with the rest of the schools in the state in which case they are clearly not small they are a medium sized school.

[KarlHungus]

Explain to me how they are a better program.  What have they done that has elevated them to such a higher wrestling status than Bluffton?

 

 

 

 

Yes, you are correct. However, discrediting an argument is different than not acknowleding the argument.

 

 

 

Y2 already did this for me with his maybe statements.  I said take away the maybes and those would be the reasons why it's a better program.  I already said that in a previous post along with filling their weight classes. 

 

As to your second statement?  Huh?  Are you saying your argument is not being acknowledged?

[pin2win1]

A big part of debate is about discrediting the other sides argument so I don't know why you would make a point of calling attention to y2 or I doing such.

 

A couple things, first, you mean like how i discredited y2 about 4 pages back and last night about how his interpretation was doo doo, and he has yet to respond. Or how a random sample will not always yeild the same results as if one actually went out and got the opinion of all people? Yep karl, you and y2 both have a problem of asckowledging the strong points of the other side, even when you are proven wrong.

 

Secondly, you discrediting the points is a very valid strategy when one is debating in a realm where there is a winner and loser. But since there is no judge, and nothing to be won or lost on the wrestling boards, it is a bad strategy. I mean honestly, if you think you are going to get someone to change their mind on a wrestling message board, well quite frankly you need help. Rather, in a message board debate, where there is no winner or loser, the best thing you can do is try and come to a good understanding of the otherside's opinions. In doing such, more respect will be shown and people will not be making "bad interpretations" like some of us here have (myself included). In doing this not only will you have a better understanding of opposing arguement, but when you actually have a chance to debate for real, you will have more ammo to use because you have a strong sense of where the other side is coming from, and have a strong sense of how to discredit that side when it matters.

 

Quite frankly, I want to see if i have gathered what y2 and karl's positions are on the issue. Karl and y2 want a class for everything based off of the fact and that: in general there are less practice room partners for the smaller schools which means there are less top notch wrestlers in these rooms to make the wrestlers on the team better, That small school athletes in general are unable to put in the time to become outstanding wrestlers like the large schools due to the fact that the athletes are forced to play more sports than the larger schools,and they believe it should be classed due to the fact that the good coaches leave and go to the better schools, thus putting the teams and athletes from the small schools at a disadvantage. Is there anything else I am forgetting y2 or karl? I mean i may not agree fully with everything you are saying, but atleast I can acknowledge your arguments and respect your opinions, even if they differ from mine.

 

And will someone tell me why my typing box jumps all over the place when i make a long post?

[KarlHungus]

A couple things, first, you mean like how i discredited y2 about 4 pages back and last night about how his interpretation was doo doo, and he has yet to respond. Or how a random sample will not always yeild the same results as if one actually went out and got the opinion of all people? Yep karl, you and y2 both have a problem of asckowledging the strong points of the other side, even when you are proven wrong.

 

Secondly, you discrediting the points is a very valid strategy when one is debating in a realm where there is a winner and loser. But since there is no judge, and nothing to be won or lost on the wrestling boards, it is a bad strategy. I mean honestly, if you think you are going to get someone to change their mind on a wrestling message board, well quite frankly you need help. Rather, in a message board debate, where there is no winner or loser, the best thing you can do is try and come to a good understanding of the otherside's opinions. In doing such, more respect will be shown and people will not be making "bad interpretations" like some of us here have (myself included). In doing this not only will you have a better understanding of opposing arguement, but when you actually have a chance to debate for real, you will have more ammo to use because you have a strong sense of where the other side is coming from, and have a strong sense of how to discredit that side when it matters.

 

Quite frankly, I want to see if i have gathered what y2 and karl's positions are on the issue. Karl and y2 want a class for everything based off of the fact and that: in general there are less practice room partners for the smaller schools which means there are less top notch wrestlers in these rooms to make the wrestlers on the team better, That small school athletes in general are unable to put in the time to become outstanding wrestlers like the large schools due to the fact that the athletes are forced to play more sports than the larger schools,and they believe it should be classed due to the fact that the good coaches leave and go to the better schools, thus putting the teams and athletes from the small schools at a disadvantage. Is there anything else I am forgetting y2 or karl? I mean i may not agree fully with everything you are saying, but atleast I can acknowledge your arguments and respect your opinions, even if they differ from mine.

 

And will someone tell me why my typing box jumps all over the place when i make a long post?

 

If he doesn't respond i guess you win that point.  I wholeheartedly disagree with you that an accepted debate strategy is somehow invalid because there is no judge.  Is that in the Geneva Convention?  A debate is a debate and the strategies don't really change no matter where you are.

 

You are still full of baloney on the skiing example.  I even went to the length of asking the teacher who teaches statistics.  You don't even need to poll close to half of america and you will get 35 percent.  So whether your points are strong or not are also open to interpretation.  Not because I say so, as you alluded to before but because they just are.  Mine, yours, anyones are open to interpretation.

 

Many have changed their minds on class wrestling over the course of the debate the past few years.  Myself included.

 

Your summary is mostly accurate although incomplete as to the benefits of class wrestling.  No one said small school kids are "forced" to play spring sports.  Small schools have less athletes to choose from overall, this often plays out in the lack of practice room partners.

 

I have acknowledged that a single class system does show us who the best wrestler is in each weight class.  But besides this point, i don't see much else that is good about the single class system.

[pin2win1]

Well there are multiple debate strategies karl, i believe that the best strategy on a board is to understand others strategies, because how is us bitching (can i use that word on the baord? If not I will delete it on your account) help solve anything? I mean i just don't see us resolving the matter on a message board, do you? If that is the case then i see the best strategy as understanding others points of view.

 

You are still full of baloney on the skiing example.  I even went to the length of asking the teacher who teaches statistics.  You don't even need to poll close to half of america and you will get 35 percent.  So whether your points are strong or not are also open to interpretation.  Not because I say so, as you alluded to before but because they just are.  Mine, yours, anyones are open to interpretation.

 

Then i hope that teacher is fired if he is using a random polling system. Now if he were to scientifically gather a group that resembles the make up of america in terms of location, sex, age and so forth, to make a mini america I could see him getting 35 percent within the margin of error qute frequentl if not darn close to 100 percent of the time. But if i draw 1000 names out of a hat, i could be all over the place. I mean if random odds were predicable (which pulling names out of a hat to poll are random odds), then vegas would be losing a ton of money at the roulette wheel, and you and I would be very, very, very rich men.

 

Your summary is mostly accurate although incomplete as to the benefits of class wrestling.  No one said small school kids are "forced" to play spring sports.  Small schools have less athletes to choose from overall, this often plays out in the lack of practice room partners.

 

Well maybe forced is a stong word, would more likely work better?

 

 

[pin2win1]

I have acknowledged that a single class system does show us who the best wrestler is in each weight class.  But besides this point, i don't see much else that is good about the single class system.

 

How about it allows wrestlers who do not wrestle nationally a better chance of going up against nationally known kids from larger schools (since larger schools would naturally have more nationally known wrestlers cause more of them do not play multi sports), and thus by wrestling nationally known kids well (and sometimes even beating them), it can turn some scouts' heads? Would that not also be a plus to a one class system?

[KarlHungus]

Well there are multiple debate strategies karl, i believe that the best strategy on a board is to understand others strategies, because how is us bitching (can i use that word on the baord? If not I will delete it on your account) help solve anything? I mean i just don't see us resolving the matter on a message board, do you? If that is the case then i see the best strategy as understanding others points of view.

Then i hope that teacher is fired if he is using a random polling system. Now if he were to scientifically gather a group that resembles the make up of america in terms of location, sex, age and so forth, to make a mini america I could see him getting 35 percent within the margin of error qute frequentl if not darn close to 100 percent of the time. But if i draw 1000 names out of a hat, i could be all over the place. I mean if random odds were predicable (which pulling names out of a hat to poll are random odds), then vegas would be losing a ton of money at the roulette wheel, and you and I would be very, very, very rich men.

 

Well maybe forced is a stong word, would more likely work better?

 

 

 

98% of the class wrestling debate has been classless folks trying to discredit the perceived benefits of a class system.  But the moment someone discredits the other side, this strategy somehow becomes taboo?

 

Your definition of random and mine are completely different.  If they are a random sample group then they would be like a mini america.  Otherwise the sample size is not big enough.

 

 

[KarlHungus]

How about it allows wrestlers who do not wrestle nationally a better chance of going up against nationally known kids from larger schools (since larger schools would naturally have more nationally known wrestlers cause more of them do not play multi sports), and thus by wrestling nationally known kids well (and sometimes even beating them), it can turn some scouts' heads? Would that not also be a plus to a one class system?

 

any examples to support this perceived benefit?

[KarlHungus]

How about it allows wrestlers who do not wrestle nationally a better chance of going up against nationally known kids from larger schools (since larger schools would naturally have more nationally known wrestlers cause more of them do not play multi sports), and thus by wrestling nationally known kids well (and sometimes even beating them), it can turn some scouts' heads? Would that not also be a plus to a one class system?

 

Not only because most quality large school wrestlers don't play play spring sports but also because they have more athletes to choose from.  More athletes and more time spent in the room will lead to more nationally ranked wrestlers.