WingMan

I am the mother of three teenagers, two girls and one son. I have been involved in sports my whole life (volleyball, basketball, rugby and wrestling) I am a military veteran and have had the experience of one of my daughters wrestling and my son has wrestled for over 13 years and he has wrestled girls. With that being said... 1. If an individual refuses to participate on any sport or activity due to his belief, then it is his choice, the female (or male) should not be punished. 2. I play basketball am I not allow to box-out a male or vice-versa? What if a shot is blocked? What if I happen to throw and elbow or the other-way around? What if I beat him at HORSE? Am I supposed to throw the game to make him feel better? 3. I used to play co-ed volleyball and took hits and serves from men, should I have stepped away? Should I not have served at them? Should I not have played so I didn't upset anyone? Now let's talk real-world... 1. Military, clearly this young man will never join the military as you HAVE to rely on your counter-parts and some of them are women including Commanding Officers and some are put in harms way. He may just have to take an order from a female, how does that factor into his beliefs? 2. Society/Professional world: How does this kid fit into the real world with his belief's on women? A female boss for example? Peers? I have watched Mary Kelly, Sara H and Miracle and there is no dishonor in wrestling them. Anyone who thinks women should only wrestle women have effectively taken this sport away from some women/girls who have put just as much time (maybe more in some cases) into this sport as the men/boys. It is not realistic for a womens only team in the high school arena. My son has wrestled girls and the message to him is the same as when he wrestles the guys...humility, dignity and sportsmanship. The same values apply to both sexes. I could go another avenue with this post regarding the fear of boys being beat by girls/women but that is not my point. This is 2011 and if girls want to wrestle let them. If boys don't want them to wrestle girls then let them forfiet for whatever reason, but don't challenge the girl's right to participate. This should not be national news, it was one individual's decision that now reflects poorly on women in wrestling and that is just wrong. I have been called a "turd" on this site before and probably will again for what I posted. But it is what I believe as an advocate of wrestling (for everyone).

HOF93 or whoever stated that Lynde needed to "suck-it-up" needs a foot in his a@*. Anyone who has watched him knows he doesn't need a breather. Come on...no one needs to go to that level on a kid who has busted his butt to get where he is. He was hurt and it was clear to anyone who gives a crap about the individuals and not just the outcome. You should be ashamed of yourself for playing God and doctor. And if you are a doctor, maybe you could have went down and looked at Lynde as we had a nurse-practioner on hand and she did just that. Arm-chair coaches are what hurt this sport giving their un-educated "two-cents." Suck-it-up? Really, you must have many, many records and achievements in wrestling under your belt to state something like this. If I were to guess, you were in band or maybe the cheer squad and only wished you wrestled or maybe you didn't make the team???? Maybe now you are fortunate to have a wrestler or know one...but that is far from having the expertise to criticize these young men who made it to this level. I hope you sleep well at night.

T. Lynde is no slacker...count him in.

Good job Bone...

Agree D2D...agree. Was hoping to see a pin a little earlier, but heck, the kid was sick.

Cody is a champion. He will be prepared and ready for battle this weekend. Everyone has losses, it's how you apply what you learned from the loss to your next battle and I believe he will. Upsets suck to some, make others happy, the lessons learned from those upsets usually make the one who lost stronger mentally - we all know that and see it in sports and life. Didn't see the match, but there is no question in my mind he handled the loss like a professional, that is the kind of kid he is.

All I can say is that Brad is an up-standing individual and coach. He is an inspiration to many wrestlers well outside of the Penn school district. He is alway's positive and like someone said, he would say "bring it on" rather that skirt the system. Just curious as to what "fund" the IHSAA will deposit the $500 into? Anyone know how/who brought this discrepancy up? Rhetorical question as there would be a lynching if that name was brought out, but I am guessing a disgruntled parent or coach? I'll chip in on the $500 too and sign my name to the check and in memo line note it as IHSAA BS.

Hard work, long hours and 13 years of dedication to this sport....Bone you rock! I too look forward to seeing you under the lights at Conseco...but one match at a time. Patience and determination are all you need and you have those traits. Stein may be in the lead on rankings, but there is a junior from Delphi after him who is not afraid...

I too congratulate Kyle. Great kid, great sportsmanship have too assume great family.

Gotta give a shout out to Delphi. While they are small in comparison to the CP's, MD's and Perry's they usually have a pretty good showing based on their enrollment. We aren't just talking parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents...I am talking about neighbors, friends of family and students. Many with no ties to the sport at all other than just supporting Delphi athletics. That is awesome to see and I hope it continues. While I have an wrestler on the team, I try to thank each and every fan that shows up who isn't a parent and it can be exhausting. Most respond with "why wouldn't we be here." Case in point...Delphi girls basketball team had a game scheduled for 2:30 yesterday at Delphi...many fans/students left Regionals to go support the girls. B-ball game cancelled and the whole crew (plus several new fans) came back to Logan to support the wrestlers (in that crappy weather) only to catch the last round. Now those are some dedicated crazy fans!

Go Bone. If they can't handle you then weed-out the herd. Your sportsmanship inspires me.

Someone needs to define "naturally good wrestlers" to me. If that means dedication, hard work-out schedules and living the sport like it's their job, then yes, Delphi just may have some "naturally good wrestlers" but to me it's just hard work and focus (and many are multi-sport athletes and their dedication flows into other sports). I have been following Delphi wrestling for several years now and travel a good distance to some of the tournaments Sodakchamp mentioned (along with just about every other Delphi fan). It's an easy decision, you travel to the big tournaments or you don't, but don't complain if you don't. Anyone not taking advantage of Boiler Elite that resides within the Lafayette area who is not taking advantage of such a great tool shouldn't complain. Great coaching, great work-outs, local and very reasonably priced. It's one of Lafayette's best-kept secrets. I also understand HS scheduling occurs at least a year in advance, so those schools trying to get into more competitive tournaments need to make changes now for the future. Delphi isn't doing anything special, the wrestlers are. Delphi just ensures that they keep great coaches on staff who recognize potential in young kids and help develop them through their programs. Love it or hate it, it really is just the basics of developing the athletes they have and putting those athletes in tough competition through-out the season to improve them (and in my opinion, give them a taste of what conference and beyond will be like, win or lose). I am not going to comment on specifics at conference, but maybe there were some expectations of matches where people didn't account for some wrestler's accomplishments based on opponents leading up to conference. The outcome of some matches just seemed to me to be very over-publicized and that's a shame because every wrestler there went in to do their best...some did, some didn't but the truth of the matter is, they are just kids and they all battled and it made for a great conference tournament.

Lynde has beat his teammates who have beaten Winkle in the past...why should he have any issues with Winkle at Conference? True statement. Lynde wins by major at the absolute least.

Thought we were talking about the wrestlers posted on this...I can brag myself as can everyone else on this post. Keep to the point and congrats to your past accomplishments.

I have seen Sara H and Miracle wrestle (probably mis-pronounced both names but you all get who I am talking about). Boys should be afraid as these young women mean business. I hope to see both of these young women at semi-state if not Conseco. Both "girls" have great coaches and are a treat to watch. Sarah H is a technique guru and quite frankly out techniques Miracle...however, Miracle has blunt strength along with some technique (just my opinion). Semi-State will be more interesting watching both young ladies more than ever before. And the young wrestler who squeeked by Sarah at Semi-State last year was lucky. Just my opinion.

Since we are playing...Lynde is also undefeated in his short career at 189.

Small school in central Indiana is facing their high school program being dissolved mid-season. There is one wrestler there who has made it to semi-state last year and my question is this...Does anyone on this forum know the IHSAA rules for a wrestler to compete for another school? What are his options as he is now the only eligible wrestler on the team. What does it take for him to be allowed to go to another school and (1) practice or (2) actually compete for a team this late in the season. Seriously looking for options here, appreciate anyone's advice.

I know the match never happened which is why the forfieting wrestling doesn't take a loss. That is my point. I think it's wrong if the wrestler has participated in previous matches of the meet and contiues to participate after a forfiet. Call me out of my element or not, I still say it's wrong and think the rule needs to be changed. I will also say that I didn't witness this at all at the Logansport tournement yesterday. Seen a lot of JV wreslters getting action, but no blatent forfiets which was refreshing. I know some believe this tactic to be strategy, but I don't and that's my opinion and I am sure everyone knows what opinions are like so know need to send me an message telling me about them. The boys are there to wrestle so let them. Competition and play time makes every athlete better (in my opinion).

I maintain, if your wrestler (JV or Varsity) can't handle the competition. Don't let them compete...but be honest with them as to why you (the Coach or parent) aren't letting them compete. Whether it be humilation, potential injury or simply protecting their record for seeding purposes...be honest with your athletes. Let's see how that effects numbers. These are life-lessons we teach/coach our kids. In the business world you don't get a "pass" or "no-thanks...I am just not ready" excuse. At the High School level, everyone should be past the awards for "participation" or the awards for just breathing and being part of the team. I say let them wrestle and if they don't then penalize the individual giving the forfiet. Is this horse dead yet? Getting tired of reading sob-stories of sub-par wrestler's egos. It's part of the sport, competition is part of the real-world. Cut the apron strings and let the kids compete. I really don't want to sit in a board room 5 or 10 years from now with kids who never lived in the real world and expect someone to come in and "save them." Just exactly what message is sent to a wrestler who isn't allowed to compete...6 points for the other team...my butt. It clearly sends the message that you aren't ready, you aren't capable, and we are doing you a favor...great tactic. Once again, the forfieting individual should take a loss.

I appreciate all of the responses on this thread and have a few comments and then will get back to my point. 1. Pride is not defined by wins or losses. Pride is just that, in this case it is pride in yourself and your capability on the mat. If someone's pride is defined by wins or losses I don't think the basketball team wants that athlete either. You train, you compete. If your coach doesn't think you are capable then that's his responsibility to not let you on the team. 2. Someone posted that many wrestlers learn more from losses than wins. I agree. That is a very good life lesson for losses make everyone better, whether it's on the mat, in school or in the professional arena that many of us arm-chair coaches live in. There are very good lessons in a well-deserved loss. 3. I am glad to see no more posts on "humiliation." Our top Indiana wrestlers just don't subscribe to that tactic. Now to my original point. The forfieting wrestler should have an individual penalty. That would put the tactic of the "forfiet" into scope. It would allow the team to forfiet...but at a cost placed on the individual. Hey, new rules allow the officials to be the doctors on the mat this year...why can't we demand that forfiets be a reflection on the individual forfieting? This rule needs to be addressed. You cannot dodge other opponents without retribution. (Once again, I qualify my statements on non-injured, healthy wrestlers.) I am sick of seeing this tactic (if you can call it a tactic)...If the wrestlers can't handle the heat of the kitchen, then keep them out of the kitchen. They go to battle with their "hard-hats" and "work boots" (ie head gear and wrestling shoes) every day/match. Let them wrestle. And for those that can't hang...stay out of the kitchen and keep your boy home. And for those that posted how important those 6 points are...I agree, how about we let the wrestler's earn them?

Response to "Chambers": yes I have seen teams knee deep in wrestlers opting to not wrestle. Will not give names, but there are programs out there that are known for this tactic. Send me an email and I can elaborate, but will not post it. Creampuff: In my experience, i have not seen the "high-caliber" wrestlers ever humiliate an under-classmen or JV wrestler or worse yet, hurt them...I am sure it has happened and probably does happen...but I have not witnessed it. High caliber wrestlers understand their programs and how important it is to grow a program, so humiliation is not in their arsenal. If a coach (in my opinion) believes that his wrestler could get hurt, then that (in my opinion) reflects on the coach as not preparing said wrestler properly. You can't have it both ways...let the kid wrestle - or don't, especially at the varsity level. Let the kids wrestle...as Chamber said, coaches manage their wrestlers and punish them for poor sportsmanship and I believe that to be true... There is another post on this website that refers to this tactic as "unethical." I won't go there, as I don't believe that. I am simply stating that the forfieting wrestler should take the hit on his record. That is all. How many wrestlers get screwed at seeding meetings because they didn't match up with the other wrestler because he dodged him? If that wrestler had an easy year, then he has a good chance of being seeded higher than the better wrestler and the "dodging wrestler" may have had a pud season (no real competition). That sets up false expectations and actually makes the tournaments a little more dull for anyone who follows this sport knows the background...Take the "potential hurt" out of this discussion as it appears that it is an excuse. If a varsity wrestler can't take the heat "then they need to stay out of the kitchen." If a coach doesn't think his JV wrestler can hang, then keep him out of all competition... Just my two cents...

Haven't seen any postings on this tournament. Does anyone have anything? Teams? Individuals?

The Lynde's say congratulations! Very well deserved!

I appreciate the feedback. But, let me ask this. If as a coach you have healthy wrestlers, who are not new, their confidence is up (all relevant points made earlier) and you are winning the dual why wouldn't you wrestle them? Isn't that a bigger blow to their confidence by not letting them compete? Doesn't that send a message that you aren't good enough? Isn't that what sports and competition is about? Don't athletes have a better understanding of real-life than many others? As a parent of a healthy wrestler who wasn't allowed to wrestle based on some of the strategy I would be upset. And the comments about humilation I have to agree with. There is no wrestler that should ever humilate a competitor, no matter what. There is no honor in that. I just don't see that very often, even watching McMurray and Standefur tear through competition over the years, they were professional on the mat, got quickly to the point and were very kind-hearted afterwards offering words of encouragement and praise to the opponent they just beat (and I mean beat!). I know a few wrestlers who being put in that position made them better. As stated, all of this info is appreciated but I still think there are some programs who are protecting records, not preventing injury or humiliation. And I have a problem with that. What happens at seeding times? What about when losses are reviewed to seed the wrestler? No loss because they opted not to wrestle? Yes, it doesn't count against the wrestler even though everyone in the room knows they dodged another seeded wrestler. It doesn't seed that wrestler correctly and probably sets up unrealistic expectations if a wrestler is seeded higher than the opponent that was dodged. As you can tell, this rule really blows my mind. If you are not injured you wrestle, if you have back-ups you wrestle the back-up. If you want to move your line-up around that's fine...but wrestler your capable kids. I have been following this sport for 13 years and have two more high school years to go and probably have underwear older than many of you reading this post. So just read/listen to my point. Individuals should take a forfiet penalty. All of you can try to change my mind but I don't think it's going to happen.

My comment on talking about weight loss to papers was just that. Don't fuel a fire that isn't well supported within the tabloids. Weight loss is a band-wagon that we don't want or need do-gooders who have nothing to do with the sport jumping on. (True story, a fourth grader, not my wrestler, at our previous school was getting ready to go to the Tournament of Champion in Ohio years ago and was licking the sides of Doritos at the school cafateria because he was "cutting weight." Wouldn't eat the chip, just licked them...dumb butt. The school actually debated calling child services on the parents. They opted not to but called the coach and had him explain...true story as my mother was his homeroom teacher at the time). That is just one example of how people outside of wrestling don't understand weight management and had no idea that the kid was eating just fine at home...it was just something to get some attention from his school mates. Looked bad and could have been real bad had the school followed their first instinct. Just don't give them anything to use against the program and weight loss is a big gotcha. I also firmly believe that coaches play by the rules. If they don't the penalty is just too high. My post was not questioning the programs behind the wrestlers or ever implying that a wrestler "cheats" (didn't know it was possible to be honest). From what I read on this post is that there is a lot more feeling behind weight loss and how it is managed than I ever believed but publicity and commenting on it can (not always) reflect poorly on this sport. And no one knows the body-fat of each wrestler and what they are allowed to lose by IHSAA rules except the wrestler, the coach and hopefully the parents (I know what ours it). Someone cutting 10 pounds in a short time can be legit. And from what I have seen over the years, wrestling work-outs are much more intense than football so yes, I can believe a football player/wrestler can cut weight very quickly once he is absorbed into the wrestling program. For some of the wrestlers who had successfull football programs that loss could be over one week or several before they compete in wrestling. I do believe that rules are followed by coaches and I just don't see that big of weight differences at the tournaments to make me believe otherwise. Now, when the 2-pound allowance kicks in, I can see that, but even though it is a small amount of weight anyone can see a difference in their wrestler if the see them every day. But once again, there are rules and even with the allowance and I believe the rules are followed. Who on this forum hasn't taken their athlete to a two or three day tournament with only one weigh in and see the wrestlers immediately after weigh in or better yet the next day? It is amazing how those kids can change in such a short time, but those are the rules. We just don't see that in the IHSAA tournaments here. In regards to the forfiets...no it wasn't Munster as the coach actually apologized for not having a 171 pounder late in the day due to an injury incurred at the tournament and we already knew of Anthony's injury (hope both of those boys heal soon). It was Ekhart Memorial who had two healthy 171 pounders that gave up the forfiet after they had already beat us. That strategy just rubs me the wrong way.