base

I have asked what programs have we lost? You mentioned 3 I think - one of which was advertising for a head coach this year, so obviously they are not cutting the program because of participation. Cutting wrestling programs may be the logical conclusion you are getting at, but it doesn't see to actually be happening Also in regards to your first point about "working harder" - if you will never concede that the small school athletes should look at other options to help them reach state, then your solution to add a small school division is roughly equivalent to (yes, I'm going to say it) awarding participation trophies. Without really showing much proof, you are suggesting that this one step will magically solve all the woes It will not help wrestlers at large schools that are not succeeding (of the 34 4A schools you have listed in your dataset, 8 of them or roughly 25% have had less than 10 state qualifiers total in the past 15 years. In 3A only 30 out of 34 have had 10 or more) Since small school wrestlers should not have to "work harder" then I guess you are simply going after participation numbers and not skill (I am ok with this, but say that's what it is) You mention the number of participants dropping - that trend has continued during the addition of the TEAM CLASSED state tournament, so apparently the lure of those awards has not improved the participation across the board although it may have helped some schools If participation numbers is the root issue, then let's focus on solving that. Like Galagore insists - wrestling will die from the bottom up. Without focusing on the youth programs as step 1 then your solution is only your best guess at what might follow

In soccer, gymnastics and some other sports - the off-season clubs are the major focus for recruiting and training. College coaches are not typically going to high school games - they go to off-season high-level tournaments where they can see high performing athletes competing against other high performing athletes. High school season is almost viewed as the "fun" time when you get to play the sport with school-mates (some of which may train offseason, and others may not) This message board tends to put a high emphasis on school rather than club As I listened to the broadcasts of semistate and state the past couple weekends - several announcers would make the point of saying "this guy wrestles for Red Cobra" or CIA or Maurer Coughlin. One of the announcers kept saying that competitors at state have "probably put hands on each other a lot" as they both train out of Region Wrestling Academy or similar It's clear that regional training centers are needed - especially where there are "deserts" such as around the Culver area. Just a suggestion - ask a couple of the successful clubs like those mentioned above if they would be willing to open their books and their minds to help mentor young people that might be interested in opening similar facilities in other places around the state. Partner with local businesses to get funding and donations. Build a brand that is visible at state competitions. Focus on gaining skills, interest and notoriety through some of the offseason events - that will translate into more participation and success within the school season

All the time, energy and money spent assessing these moves could be better spent on other line items. Setup some clear violations for extreme cases (athletes are being paid to play at another school, etc) and maybe investigate those Otherwise, let the parents decide what is best for their kids

Thanks for the replies - 40 kids in a school of 591 sounds fantastic, but I am guessing that is out of the norm. I'm trying to get to where I can do some data comparison - do you agree that 2020 numbers are probably more "normal" than 2021, given the situation with COVID? Y2 - didn't you have a spreadsheet that showed number of forfeits by school/weight for every sectional?

Since we don't really have team member numbers all we can look at easily is the numbers going into sectionals, right? In general, do you think that is a good indicator, recognizing that there may be overlaps where even on a small team there are teammates who do not get to wrestle in sectionals?

Those numbers sound pretty high for schools that may only have 300 students. Do you think this is a reasonable average number of wrestlers we could get to if we put in the small school state?

Joe, Galagore - other class state proponents. What do you consider a "thriving" HS team for a small school - where you would say they are no longer a risk of losing their program. 5 wrestlers? 7 wrestlers? 14? I'm interested to see how many teams are below that threshold now

Has there been a trend for small schools to discontinue programs in Indiana? Is it just wrestling or other sports also?

Well we were focusing on state qualifiers, so thought that success at that level had become the new hurdle - sounds like you are talking more about straight participation numbers, filling lineups and keeping programs alive. Two very different discussions Enough bantering and arguing about something that is likely not going to happen (class individual wrestling). I'm not totally opposed to it so if you can pull it off - great. But in the meantime off the top of my head - here's what I would try if I were the coach at a smaller school that has very low turnout. I have no experience as a HS coach so maybe I'm crazy on some of these points Get a plan together - HS head coach gets other like-minded parents who are willing to give of their time to make the improvements happen. Get some ideas on paper instead of just winging it and hoping it will work out Start at the youth level. Work like crazy at social media, word of mouth, and local paper to get a small, tight-knit group of kids that have interest in the sport If the HS coach doesn't have the time to run the youth program in the offseason and be really involved, then find others who will. Have to be willing to let go of control With that youth group, I think it is extremely important to have a great coordinator/communicator that is probably not the coach(es) Plan some social activities so that the kids and the parents can bond Take the kids to either local friendship meets with other clubs, or target a few beginner tournaments - highlight takedown attempts instead of placements Feed stories to your local newspaper. A kid's name in the paper can go a LONG way Look for local business that might sponsor your club and donate some $$ towards club shirts or even singlets After the freestyle season ends, keep in touch! Social media, hangouts, etc. Have to start making it feel like a squad. Coaches should go watch kids do other activities Get the kids to wear cool shirts, hats, stickers or other visual signs to let other kids know there is a group that is fun and they want to be a part of If there are kids that are excelling and they have the interest to really push more, refer them to a local academy for more advanced training Involve any interested kids from the HS and Junior high to help give some pointers to the youth kids. The little wrestlers really look up to the teens and it will keep the teens involved and interested. Those teens will turn into future local parents in many cases - and your source for 2nd and 3rd generation wrestlers! Regardless of success or not, I think teambuilding is one of the most overlooked activities - and in my opinion that camaraderie will build and retain teammates far better than the lure of a small school division trophy. Although I do understand that adding patches for Sectional Champ, etc are also definitely a motivator

OK there are always 2 different arguments (possibly more) going on at the same time 1. Do we want to increase participation in the state? I would argue that there are also large schools (Pike, for example) that do not have large wrestling squads - but that doesn't seem to be the target 2. Are we targeting more state-level qualifiers from the smaller schools, or would higher quantity of JV-level wrestlers be a success? 3. Do we expect some sort of even spread of talent across all schools?? I would contend that even in those states that have classes wrestling, there are powerhouse schools. I frequently see how large schools account for disproportional number of qualifiers in Indiana - but is it really *ALL* large schools? I am guessing that it is not - it's mostly a dozen or fewer (EMD, Perry, Cathedral, Crown Point, etc) that have a really strong program from youth to HS and dominate at the semistate and up level. Do they have an advantage over other large schools - absolutely! Do I think low-performing large schools should start another division so that their kids can advance and subsequently bring more into the program? I think you would end up with the same thing in a 2 class system - powerhouses that dominate most of the placements. I think baby steps are a better approach - i like the idea of shared practices and this could be a good place to start

I understand your belief that you could get more kids out if they think they have a chance to advance, and then jump to the belief that it would lead them to “work harder” to increase their skills... thereby raising all ships. I just haven’t been convinced enough that it would produce those results. Where would the Mater Dei kids fall in this? I don’t think they would be content not facing the very top talent out there in the state

@TeamGarcia will they show any of the extras on tv? On web?

In your 2-class scenario, would there ever be a reason for the small school wrestlers to go against the big school wrestlers? In dual meets or any tournament environment?

Congratulations Joe!

NEW FACILITY??

All of the tickets for Saturday should have been allotted to the wrestlers - there are 112 of them left so if you give 20 tickets each then that is 2240 seats filled I'd love to see Banker's Life packed with family - not fans (I am a fan, but will happily watch from home) People scalping extra tickets for a profit - completely wrong. This is not the wrestling community These kids get sometimes only one chance to be on the big stage - should have let them give the tickets to friends and families and let them come along for the ride I'm sure one or two schools got the jump on everyone else - way to go! Sure, some long time wrestling fans will be sure to not break their streak of watching the championships - way to go! Just know that you are denying family the opportunity to see their son or grandson wrestle

All of the finals tickets should have just been sent to the ADs from the finalists. Screw everyone else - they can purchase and watch online. I'm sick of people with "skillz" taking tickets away from family of people that are wrestling then scalping extra tickets for $$$. Despicable. Get grandpa and grandma to see their grandson wrestle!!

Mat 4 was Nick Hull - he was great, he basically verbally coached every kid on the mat

General - I agree I was off on the call of a pin. However, I would say that my statement of Taylor will overwhelm him was pretty much on spot. I like the look of Hinton but Taylor is just too much at this stage of their development

Team scores after first night - Chesterton leads. Penn brought 8 but they are all but eliminated only scoring 8 points in the first round Team Season Team Abbr Count Points 1 Chesterton Chesterton, IN (GET) CHES 8 36.0 2 Evansville Mater Dei Evansville Mater Dei, IN (GET) EMD 7 27.5 3 Crown Point Crown Point, IN (GET) CRPO 8 25.0 4 Perry Meridian Perry Meridian, IN (GET) PEME 9 23.0 5 Indpls. Cathedral, IN Indianapolis Cathedral, IN (GET) INCA 6 19.0 6 Warren Central Warren Central, IN (GET) WACE 6 16.0 7 Brownsburg Brownsburg, IN (GET) BROW 5 15.5 8 Zionsville Zionsville, IN (GET) ZION 3 11.0 9 Avon Avon, IN (GET) AVON 4 10.0 9 Oak Hill Oak Hill, IN (GET) OAHI 4 10.0 9 Western, IN Western, IN (GET) WEST 3 10.0 12 Columbus East Columbus East, IN (GET) COEA 3 8.0 12 East Central East Central, IN (GET) EACE 5 8.0 12 North Posey North Posey, IN (GET) NOPO 2 8.0 12 Penn Penn, IN (GET) PENN 8 8.0

Erb wraps up the match for a 6-1 win Munoz puts Villafuerte to his back and ends the night with a fall!

Coach Hull "let that be a lesson to all you youngsters... offense wins!" Love hearing him it's like a coaching clinic

Munoz is controlling the tie ups against the bigger Villafuerte. Platomov finally gets the escape and then folow it up with a shot for the takedown and win right at the buzzer! 3-1 for Westfield

Decker seems to be controlling Platomov from top position Erb gets a takedown and leads 4-1 with 12 seconds left

Alexander closes it out 8-3 over Whitenack Munoz up 2-1 starting 2nd period Decker up 1-0 starting 3rd