FCFIGHTER170

This debate will go on until the end of time

And one of the greatest contributers to not just to Indiana but for the sport as a whole.

I hope they keep the Jesses recruiting class together with this being the first time 1 school has gotten #1-3 ranked recruits in one class with Mendez, Bouzakis and Feldman.. Then add top 50 recruits Shumante,Goeg and Brown and it's going to get really interesting in a few years IMHO..

I hope they RS him and he gets to develop and acclimate to the college scene.. He's obviously proven that he can beat high level college guys in the past but I think it's crucial for letting develop his strength and overall get comfortable being in a Land of grown men coming in as a young phenom...If he RS And Ends up 133, he'll be an instant contender, especially with RBY and Fix gone.

I agree with your sentiment, since you're putting a lot of stock in HS credentials we have to acknowledge Lee was 2x National FS champ and runner up during HS and placed 3rd at 16U as an 8th grader and 127 Fila Runner up.. Also let's not forget he wrestled Micic as freshman in semis who was #1 kid in the country only to tech Future Natty Champ/runner up Enrique Early for 3rd, won it as sophmore with all Bonus point wins all through his title run including 2 pins,major,and blowout win in the finals of state with 9 points being his closest match all year.. Then as you're fully aware was part of the biggest State finals match in state history and one the biggest at the time, in the country which is still talked about, where he was winning until the #1 p4p wrestler in the country stormed bk to defeat him.. Then didn't even wrestle senior HS season..I can't fault him or hold it against him that he knew he wasn't going to be challenged his senior season and made what turned out to be the right choice in getting his College career in gear moving to PA.. And to your point about 5x AA, Penn State and the the NCAAs have declared him 5x AA under the circumstances... His overall career is neck and neck with Angels rightas we speak, yes Angel won more state titles, and a natty but the last 2 years of Lee's career, he's had arguably the best overall success ever seen by any of our Indiana guys.. We need wait another 5 years and three revisit this subject and we'll have a lot more clear answer or Unanimous agreement on who is the modern G.O.A.T..Howe,Lee,Reece and Angel are def up there.. Also can't forget We still have to see what Allred ends up doing as well.. He's a very credentialed Guy as well that is coming along nicely under Manning Nebraska, going 7-0 with 6 pins and a tech this redshirt season.. And that includes pinning Bastida of Iowa State who beat Iowa's 97 runner up Warner, All Americans Norfleet,Bulsak, Woodley,Elam twice, and pinned Hoffman for 5th place at the NCAAs also beatb jr FS world Champ and highly regarded Braxton Amos Bastida ..Bastida is an accomplished world class FS wrestler as well.. This speaks volumes about the development of Silas and I know his father is smiling down proud.

None of those guys you named won 2 straight NCAA Titles and Nick only wrestled 3 years in HS.. He also placed 3rd at the trials beating current 3x defending NCAA champ,US national champ world team member and 2x age division world Champ , Pan am champ, Yianni 16-8, Handled 3x Big ten/NCAA Champ, Cadet world Champ and world cup champ, Retherford 10-4 in the same day.. He's also got a while left to add to his accolades..HS state titles def hold weight but He's won more NCAA Titles than everybody you listed,5xAA, And if we look at his Skillset he's Just as good as any of those guys if not better..Howe IMHO has the best overall career up to this point but I think Lee is just as good as will surpass him.

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Many times expectations aren't exactly what we hoped for, but being AA multiple times over and getting a great education, is something any and everybody should applaud! He was also in deep deep weight classes every year and this kinda stuff happens when you're competing against the best day time you compete.. Happy for him and his family, just wish this tournament didn't end like it did.

You don't play wrestling!

Regardless of era, what are some matchups that you would like to have seen that might not have happened due to injury or due wrestlers being from different time periods etc. I'll get the topic going with a good mess of match ups.. 1995 heavyweight state champ James Bubba Dickerson VS 2004 HW state champ Chad Ruggeri, during both of their title runs not a single opponent made the final whistle with both spending hardly 10 minutes combined on the mat at state.. Both Big men moved unlike most Heavies, these 2 could move. 2003 runner up /3x medalist@125 Matt Jaggers vs runner up and four-time medalist Craig Macke, the match we never got to see from that era. Three time state champ at 220 Mason Paris VS super 32 and Reigning 220 state champ Christian Carrol with both being Elite big men ranked we the top nationally. 2x 189 pound state champ Nathan Moore vs 2x 195 pound state champ Silas Allred Heavys Pretty Ricky Clark versus Robert Samuels everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. 2x 140 State runner-up Charlie pingleton vs 2x state champ Neal Malloy 3x state champ Steven Bradley VS 3x state champ Asa Garcia would be disgusting. 2x 195 state Champ Mitch Sliga vs 189 state champ, 2nd and 3rd placer Heath VanDeventer 2x state champ and runner Up 132-145 Cody LeCount vs 2x state champ 140 Steven Sandefer 2x state champ 135 Erik Kerkhoff vs 135/140 state champ & 2x 3rd placer Nick Walpole 4x State champ 132 Chad Red Jr vs 3x state champ/runner up 132 Zeke Seltzer 2x Runner up/3rd placer Brenden Campbell@ 120 vs 119 State champ/ 4x top 4 placer Brenden Nelson 132 state champ and 3x 3rd placer Breyden Bailey vs 2x State champ Jarred McKinley@132 3x state champ Reece Humphrey 130 VS 125/135 2x state champ 4x placer Andre Hernandez 2x state champ 2 runner up 119/125 Brandon Wright vs 3x state champ 112-125 Kyle Ayersman 4x state champ 145 Alex Tsirtsis vs 3x State champ 145/152 Brayton Lee 3x State champ/runner up Andrew Howe @160 vs 3x State champ 4x placer Sean Murray 4X state champ @119 Lance Ellis vs 3x State Champ @119 Pat Cassidy 2x Shawn Streck HW state champ vs 2x HW state champ Chico Adams 2x State champ 189 Brad Stephens vs 2x state champ 171/189 Ian Hinton 2x state champ@171 Josh Hardy vs 2x 171 state champ Marcus Schontube 3x state champ 215 Jake O'BRIEN vs 2x state champ 220 Gelen Robinson 2x state Champ /4x top 3 placer 152 , Tommy Forte vs 2x state champ /2x runner up Matt Coughlin 2x state champ 103/112 Cody Phillips vs 2x state champ 103/112 Adam Doherty 4x state Champ 130/171 Blake Mauer vs 3x state champ/runner up 155/177 David Palmer 3x state Champ 152/160 Case Hooper vs 2x state champ 160 Paul Young 2x state Champ 140/151 James Leavell vs 2x state champ/runner up 145/152 Bryan Bailey 2x state champ 160/171 Cooper samuals vs 2x state champ Keith Davison 2x state champ Danny Williams 135/140 VS 2x state champ 135/142 Thad Oldham 4x state Champ 132 Chad Red Jr vs 4x state champ 132/138 Jesse Mendez State champ 4x placer 189 James Brimm vs 2x state champ/runner up 182/195 Blake Rypel 3x State champ/runner up 160 pound Andrew Howe VS 215 State champ/Greco Cadet world Silver medalist Matt Hasbrook vs 215 state champ DJ Radnovic who spent less than ten minutes total in his 4 state matches combined. 2x HW State champ Andy Schneider vs HW State champ/RUNNER UP Greg Wagner (3x D1 HW all American at Michigan) Here's some of the ones I wish I could've seen.. More to come

Ridle? If so I was there and it was

I remember that like it was yesterday. oglesby was a stud that got runner up year after Garland upset him losing to Bernard in the finals 5-2.. Going into his senior season he was ranked top 10 in the country and was upset in the semis by the behemoth of a specimen aka Richmond heavyweight Nate Trawick, who commenced to derailing the Finals showdown with 2 nationally ranked HWs with Oglesby and Streck.

It would be nice to see our blue chippers go to Purdue.. Those 2 you named are big men(historically the upper weights aren't as deep as the lower with obviously there not being near as many big men let alone withbig ten pedigree) and were late bloomers with their success HS success will both only going to state once.. They were more raw and hadn't been in the sport most their lives like many of our blue chippers had... I remember Penola wasn't even ranked his Jr season and was coming off a modest 24-13 sophmore campaign.. Then out of no where he went on a all time Great run at the Al Smith beating 4 Ranked studs who all were all State Qualifers/Placers who has 10 state finals appearances and nearly a half dozen state medals between the 4 studs he beat for the Al Smith crown...He beat Eventual state runner-up Jordan Rader who had 3 state finals appearances, beat 3x SQ/4th placer Swank, then beat one of the best to not win a state title in recent years Zack Fattore(was winning handily before losing on a controversial Defensive pin in the semis vs Rader in the Semis coming off a pin and tech going into the final 4) who had placed 4th and 3rd.. Also beat Tavonte Malone who was a 2x State qualifer and always highly ranked. Making the biggest jump in the rankings ever, going from unranked to ranked 3rd...He ended Up losing in a heart breaker to eventual 7th placer Jake Ruberg (who Allred has beaten multiple times that year)in the ticket round before Penola went on to place 3rd his senior season where he was a OT loss to State champ Lucas Davison away from being in the finals and more than likely the 2ns best 95 pounder that year. As you know, you hardly ever see a a wrestler place once in HS and then go on to have a successful career in the Big Ten like Penola and Lydy. Lydy also was a rare case with him winning a state title in his only trip to the big show.. He had a great Freestyle pedigree that he developed in HS and was a multiple time All American as well in HS as well, but was the opitome of what relentless work ethic in a Room like Purdue's and he became one of the best in the country and now helps youth wrestlers become the best they can be and a great role model to that kids.. All I'm saying is I don't know if those guys being so wrong the very noticeable growth at that next level being in a Big Ten room. I'd be intrigued to see how blue chippers like Mendez,Allred,Parris etc all would have turned out at Purdue.. I'm not saying those big guys only succeeded a Purdue because they were just scratching the surface on the talent but I'm saying I don't know if we would see as big a jump in the technical department as the more raw big men listed above.

Looks like awesome competition, very high level squads!

Yessir, can't complain, same to you as well coach! O'Brien and Nate Moore is very underrated when ppl bring up all time greats IMHO that's happens though, when you have Paris, Allred, and Carroll level athletes.

I posted exact thing up above You're exactly right, could you imagine winning a semi state title and thinking"At least I won't draw the defending champ my first couple Matches and should have a great draw" and BOOOOOM you're bestowed with 2 all time greats.

Poor Parkinson, he was arguably the 2nd best 70 pounder that year.

Danny Williams and Jake O'Brien both did it.. Danny Williams was nursing an ankle injury, he pulled out a nail biter in the ticket round to Eastern Hancock's Joe Levering(unfortunately was killed in a crash few years later) in an instant classic.. Then was pinned by my team mate and dear friend,T Coatie(beat both the champ and runner up Conkling that year but was beat by Bellmont 3rd placer Tim Ortiz who fell 5-3 to Williams in the semis) and back then they didn't wrestle back to 5th so Coatie placed 7th) and Injury Def the 3rd place match at MC Semi state.. Setting up a Unreal OT win in Friday night match vs Justin Mora who went on to be the state Runner up The following year, after this horrific draw vs the defending state champ Williams who went 3rd,1st,1st... And went on to wrestle in the big 10 for the Minnesota Gophers. Jake O'Brien was also not 100% and was the 2x defending 215 state champ and 2 x FA All American who qualified for state and chose to Inj Def to 4th ensuring a horrible draw for an unlucky Semi state Champ..

Congrats, that young man went on one hell of a run at tourney time!

Was cool seeing two 8th graders from this list on the finals of the 126 16U division... Evan Stanley is a monster.

At 16U /126 incoming New Castle Freshman, 2026 P4P #18 Tylin Thrine pinned all 4 to the finals in a 32 man bracket and was on a terror Pinning #23 Ranked Floyd Central stud Vince Kessinger who was a Semi state qualifier this past season... Then Ty Pins The IHSAA State placer Neil Mosier who is coming off a incredible state run placing 6th a few weeks ago at 120 with big wins at state over Demarco and Noah Lykins.. He then faced off against the highly touted and nationally ranked Evan Stanley who's also an incoming freshman, with Stanley coming out on top 5-2 and looked incredible in his win over Ty.. We are s very proud of his runner-up finish and very happy to congratulate Evan Stanley and his family.

Ben is a stud, had the pleasure of talking with him after he beat Thrine in a wild match at frosh/sophmore state semi finals a couple years ago.. Great competitor and all class regardless of the outcome.. Congrats young man, have fun and give em hell!

Great post and list.

And watching everybody else eat was the best.