OldCoach

After reading several of the comments about the IHSAA situation I am sadden by those who are in favor of the IHSAA being replaced by a state controlled body. Yes, I realize you have your right to make that decision. Let's not make it too quick. The IHSAA is a governing body that has been in existence for almost 100 years. One of the first of its kind in the United State. Sure there have been some bumpy rides along the way in that tenure. What do you think will happen if the state government gets hold of it and makes a change of leadership every four years based on politics? Do you think the person in charge at the DOE will understand athletics or even care at all? Yes, the IHSAA is the governing body that represents all sports, school, and coaches as equal as possible. Will that be the case if the DOE takes over? Yes, the IHSAA listens to the principals, athletic directors, and coaches and coaches associations throughout the state. Sometimes not very well. Will that be the case if DOE takes over? Sure you can call your sport rep at the IHSAA on the day of a IHSAA tournament about an interpretation. Will that be the case if DOE takes over? Yes,I can see nothing but negative coming for all high school athletics if politics take over. As mentioned earlier, the IHSAA has been recognized throughout the US for its outstanding athletic innovations, tournament set ups, governing rules, athletic calendars, etc. I have been involved with Indiana high school athletics since 1958 either as an athlete, a ref, or a coach. During that time I have watched the IHSAA grow from an all male organization to one that includes numerous sports for both male and female. They have stood head and shoulders above other states for years. Check out the others and see if they haven't modeled themselves after the IHSAA. The IHSAA handles or deals with 100's of legal and non legal issues weekly. They have made some real lousy decisions from time to time and great ones also. As a coach I have had my share of conflicts with the IHSAA. I written praised letters as well as letters of anger to several of the commissioners during that time period. Was I always happy with their comments or answers? NO! That is the beauty of the IHSAA. You are writing or communicating with people who understand sports. They understand Indiana high school sports. You are trying to get rule changes from people who have constant contact with others at the IHSAA headquarters who understand how athletics work. This may not and possibly will not be the case with the DOE. The the DOE is mainly concerned with education. You can bet on that. I think all coaches, not just wrestling coaches, should be thankful they have the best at this time with the IHSAA.

As mentioned earlier, a survey was out from the IHSAA, to coaches or to AD's concerning wrestling. When the survey results are taken from Indiana to the National meeting there will be many different surveys and requests from other states being presented about rule changes, point changes, and other hot topics in wrestling throughout the US. The rules meeting will determine which ones affect the most people or are the most pressing items at that time. All surveys will be covered and presented. Some will be given more attention than others. There have been times what comes out of Indiana will sometimes fall on deaf ears. States like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Michigan, etc. carry big clout. They usually are very vocal and do get results. At that time, if it is determined weights are to be changed, another survey or study will be conducted. This may take two or more years. This was the case in the past when they changed the weight classes and also added one more to make 14.

Y2, I agree with you also if that was the way you presented it to your team from the very beginning of the season.

This type of situation only exist because the coaches allow it. From day one there has to be some ground rules for parents and athletes. This can be done at the very beginning of the season with a parent/athlete meeting where the expectations of the coach are delivered. If the administration, parents, and athletes are aware of the coaches desires about what is to of them then it will make the job easier for all.

By no way am I suggesting we go back to those days. Nay! I was only pointing out how badly changes were perceived then as changes are being perceived now. One setup suggestion for class made some time ago: 1) Have 4 classes 2) Only champion and runner-up advance out of Sectional and Regional 3) Eliminate the Semi-State 4) State finals would involve all four classes at same location

That's how coaches and wrestlers felt when the runner up was allowed to advance to the Regional and State. Before Semi-State of course. When it was felt then that a true champion was recognized.

I think you are still fighting the issue of not really wanting a class with your proposal of the realignments. You are still setting the stage for the big schools to have the advantage. Let's say the IHSAA use the same type alignment with football or Basketball. Can you imagine the results if Tri West were to play Penn in football playoffs - sounds like the old basketball sectionals and regionals when we had those so-called Cinderella teams. Everybody remembers that--when the big schools literally cut to ribbons the entire state of small schools just to get them whittled down. So they wouldn't have to play another big school at the very beginning as they do now. Oh, occasionally one maybe two of the small schools might survive the onslaught but not often. Again one can check to see what size of school wins the state title year in and year out. Say why doesn't the NCAA use a non class system? What would happen if Butler could play Ohio State or DePauw(of Greencastle) to play Oklahoma in football. Not a pretty sight I bet. It is simple. The smaller schools do not have the resources, the coaches, the facilities, the numbers of athletes to choose from and the community support to draw from to compete day in and day out. Again some can and many can't. You just have to check past records to see for yourself. As I mentioned earlier, check out the state finals in Iowa. Not only in wrestling but in all sports. It is quite a scene. The whole state gets charged up for the finals. The sports section of the Des Moines paper is full of article after article of all levels. I have witnessed this many times and find it very rewarding and wondered why Indiana could not duplicate such an event.

One more item before this old guy retires from this enjoyable discussion. Keep in mind this discussion because the same thing is being discussed (not as vigorously)by cross country guys and gals. Currently they are like wrestling in a one class system. The talk now is that the IHSAA is realigning the current sectionals-regionals and dropping the semi-state. A few have mentioned that there may be a class system for cross country next season. Watch out track!! Look out wrestling!!

There are so many things mentioned tonight about the pros and cons of a class system for wrestling. Most have merit. However, it will take several hours, days, and weeks of discussion by the IHSAA before the change is made if it is made. When they change you can bet there will be an out burst from every corner of the state. A change will come for a class system. When? Who knows? Maybe next season. Maybe 5 yrs from now. It will come because some parent will sue the IHSAA because their son or daughter was not treated the same or given the same opportunity in wrestling as they were given while playing football or volleyball. The IHSAA doesn't like to have law suits. Especially those they can't win. I don't think they will win this--maybe they will??

Again I am amused at the replies regarding the thought of a class system for wrestling. I have seen how Iowa has done their class system over the years and it is fantastic. Of course they are divided into classes in all sports. Perhaps something Indiana should have done years ago. But they didn't. After looking at some of the comments, it reminds me of a time in Indiana when only the champion wrestler advanced out of the Sectional and Regional to compete in the State Finals. Another change followed that allowed the top two to advance. Again there was an outcry. How dare them make it easy to get to State. Yet, again another change was made to advance even the third place and add a Semi-State. Many thought at the time wrestling had stooped to an all time low in watering down the effects of being a true champion. I think the changes throughout the years have really added to the excitement of Indiana wrestling. I don't think Sheridan High School would think one moment about giving up the many state titles they have won in football because of a class system. How many would they have won without it?

I always made it a rule to wear them in practice. I felt it gave my guys an advantage against teams that didn't wear them except for meets. Also my guys weren't the ones that were constantly adjusting or aligning headgear during a meet because they wore them constantly. That time of adjustment was a good opportunity to shoot a takedown or make for any possible advantage. Think how long it takes to reach to your head from a neutral stance, if your arms are at waist to chest high, and then return your hands from your head to their regular position. If this is done over and over it makes for a pattern of opportunity to shoot a takedown. Worked for us.

Being disqualified for stalling. Yes, wrestlers have been disqualified for stalling. This has even happened in the state finals. In fact it has happened several times there--even in the championship match. Sorry?

I have had the privilege of speaking with and reporting wrestling scores to newspapers and reporters for several years. Over and over as the years have progressed I have heard reporters speak of how wrestling has been it's own enemy. The papers keep talking about money and time. They are quick to point out the downfall of reporting of wrestling. First we had mainly dual meets and a few tournies-fairyly good reporting; then we went to some duals, a few triple-duals and one or two tournies; then we go greedy and then came the onslaught of 4-ways, 5-ways, super 6's, and 16 team tournies. The reporters with their limited time and limited knowledge about the sport of wrestling are over-taken with stacks of results. Where as the reporting of a swim meet, basketball game, etc. is much easier to report and understand. Then one must throw in another sport to cover and that is girls basketball. So what is the answer with the money and time crunch that it is?

Almost all the colleges and universities in Indiana had wrestling in early-mid 70's. I've added just a few that can be added to the other list already. I believe Rose Hulman added theirs after the 70's--could be wrong. Anderson DePauw Wabash Hanover Manchester

I find it funny and strange how this topic has been around for so very long--changing weight classes. Not being able to fill weight classes has been an on going saga from a time when I started coaching (the 60's) to now. I remember when the complaint was that it was difficult to find 95 lb. wrestlers. Then we changed to add the the number of weight classes from 12 to 13. Then we changed 95 lb to 98 lbs. Followed by boosting the heavyweight class to unlimited. That went down quickly because we had 190 lb. heavyweights (because there wasn't a 215 class at that time) wrestling guys over 350 lbs. A study was done nationally to fix the weights where they are now. Plus they added 215 class and that seem to have stopped the chatter for awhile but I guess it's hard to satisfy all. The state can alter or change the weight classes and not stay with the national rules. All Indiana wrestling coaches have to do is have enough coaches agree (that's the problem) to a given set of weights or altered weights and proceed from there. Work through the coaches association and with the officials association will speed things up. Keep all your ducks in a row and go. I do not think adding a new weight is the way to go. Altering the one or more weights classes used now is the most realistic.