GrecoCoach

After watching the first half of Michigan's first game, I'd say all that extra practice the players did on their own is working. Tom, how does it feel to be "relieved" that your team made it past Navy? If (t)OSU doesn't improve quick, they're in for a loooong season. Tressel better take the locks of the practice facilities!

I'm not opposed to raising 103, so long as it's not too much. The smaller guys need a place to compete, even the freshmen. Keep in mind that the weight changes also apply to JV and Freshmen teams, so they would be left with no way to gain experience for when they become juniors and seniors. I am opposed to lowering heavyweight. Dropping it to 250 or below would keep football players away, and football coaches would discourage their guys from wrestling because they'd have to lose weight instead of bulking up. Once a few football players stop wrestling, others will follow. The 3 proposals did a great job of using extensive data to balance the number of wrestlers per weight class. At first I was wary of eliminating a weight class between 125 and 145, but as the data suggests, it would be more balanced. I really like the additional weight class between 171 and 189! Remember when they changed the weights back in 1995? It failed badly so they changed them back the next year (with the addition of 215). One reason it failed was because the middle weights were spread too thin - 8 pounds between each class. I prefer the proposal that keeps that difference down to 6 pounds. In any case, if it doesn't work out, we can always make adjustments until it works.

Best of luck to both Joe and D'Marcus. I had the pleasure of coaching D'Marcus at Cadet Duals. He is an amazing athlete and a smart wrestler who has a knack of winning the close matches. I've gotten to work very closely with Joe for the past 3 years in high school and have seen him grow as an all-around wrestler (and in size). Both of these young men will be a benefit to Lincln's wrestling program. rdrodd1 - Brad debated about wrestling in college up until graduation. He ultimately decided to attend Anderson University majoring in Education and beginning his coaching career.

Correct - Greco State will be at the Fairgrounds on that Sunday. Junior State will be at Lawrence North.

Lisa is a lucky woman!

ccbig, Welcome to Indiana... We have regional training centers spread out across the state that are open to all wrestlers with a USA card. We do encourage wrestlers to compete at regionals and honor their qualification for nationals without counting against our number limits. We're just finding it difficult to get kids to actually go to regionals because for the past few years it has been on Memorial Day weekend. (You'll soon find out that it is kind of a big deal around here) We have always hosted a camp before Fargo, and it is mandatory to attend. Our whole coaching staff is there along with extra clinicians. Some advice, though, don't use the phrase "pick the best wrestlers for the teams." We already give as much money as our budget allows towards lowering the costs of our trips. For the past few years we have had our Cadets and Juniors competing at state on the same weekend. Before that, they were on different weekends. Next year we are going back to seperate weekends again to give those Cadets that opportunity. I agree that Minnesota has a great wrestling program. The thing that got it all started was kind of interesting... Their state high school athletic association actually made the rules MORE STRICT! They claimed that freestyle was too similar to folkstyle, so high school coaches could not teach folkstyle or freestyle. I don't know if this is still the case. What happened was coaches realized that the only way they could work with their wrestlers was to coach Greco. And, wow, did they ever get good at Greco. The techniques they developed in Greco carried over to freestyle, which in turn carried over to folkstyle.

Keep the ideas coming - Today is the last day, since the meeting is Saturday. The discussions are great! For the most part, we already know what the problems are - We are looking for ideas on solutions! I'm compiling a list of everyone's suggestions and taking it with me to the meeting. REX - I'm not including any of yours since you already submitted it and will be there. TAE - the next time you tell someone to "just come to a meeting" I'm going to pull on your white beard! This thread is an opportunity for them to give ideas (good, bad, and everywhere in between).

I love the discussion going on. I agree with many of the things stated about the length of the freestyle and greco season. However, the state tournament dates for next year were set in June. So, all this discussion would have to be applied to the following season (2011). Keep the ideas coming - especially related to the 16 questions I listed above focusing on policies, programs, and events.

The ISWA is meeting this weekend for our annual budget meeting. This is when we make some decisions on the next season's tounaments and membership (clubs, athletes, coaches, and officials) along with ISWA trip planning and budgeting. Each ISWA Board Member was given a list of questions to get us thinking about specific issues. We would like some input about certain areas from the wrestling community as well. You can respond to any or all of the following by posting here, sending me a PM, or emailing me at jharreld@hse.k12.in.us NOTE: This is not a place to argue about ideas - this is simply to get some ideas for the ISWA to consider. We'll do all the arguing in a proper meeting setting. 1. What can we do to improve numbers in Freestyle and Greco? 2. What can we do to improve numbers of athletes and coaches (USAW membership)? 3. What can we do to better prepare our National Teams for competition, or raise the quality of Freestyle and Greco in our state? 4. What is the best method to select our duals teams? 5. What can we do to bring down the costs of our National Trips? 6. What can we do to better market our National Teams (i.e. get our best to go)? 7. What can we do to make our State Tournament run more efficiently? 8. What can we do to increase the number of Women wrestlers in the state? 9. What can we do to increase the number of officials in our state? 10. How can we improve our website? 11. How can we improve our Publication, and yet control or lower the cost? 12. Do you think Folkstyle season is too long, or at the right time of year? 13. What can be done to improve our Cultural Exchange program? 14. What ideas could help solve problems with our State, Regional, National, and Camp venues? 15. How can we bring back the honor of making TEAM INDIANA? 16. What are your ideas about anything else? All ideas are welcome, even outside-the-box ideas. Again, please don't argue the ideas here and please don't put down anyone else's "strange" ideas. Post them here, send me a PM, or email me at jharreld@hse.k12.in.us Jake Harreld ISWA Cadet Director

Just to clarify (not to start another argument)... In most of the cases where a wrestler did not place at state, he usually qualified in the other style and there was an opening. So, it's not just letting some random kid go. The wrestler did qualify to be part of the overall Team Indiana. This year was the 10th time I've gone out to Fargo to coach. I also went 4 times as a wrestler. I've seen it go from a huge honor to make the team with all of the studs attending to where we are now. The cost is not the biggest obstacle - the raise in price is comparable to inflation from when I was going. I would like to see the cost go down, and the ISWA will be examining ways to do this. A bigger obstacle is the expanding list of opportunities throughout the summer. I would have loved to have participated in Folkstyle Nationals, Disney Duals, Cadet Duals, Fila Cadets, and Fila Juniors but those tournaments didn't exist back then. Kids simply do not have the time and/or money to do everything, so they have to make choices. We need to find a way to promote Fargo as the best choice for our elite wrestlers.

You two are terrible for the image of wrestling. It makes sense that moms are scared to have their sons wrestle if they listen to you. Like all sports, injuries can occur even with legal moves. However, there is a huge difference between "things happen" and "brutality". If you're teaching your kids to be brutal while wrestling, then please stop coaching. The Brands were definitely very physical, but they still followed the rules and were penalized if they crossed the line. JTM - you said it yourself - wrestling is "controlled combat". That control is what makes wrestling NOT brutal. Physical and rough, yes. Brutal, no.

Have any of you (other than InfoLady) ever been part of the ISWA budget meeting where we set the overall budget and each individual trip's budget/cost? Check the ISWA's budget that is in the Annual Report that every club gets. The ISWA gives $40,000 in athlete assistance that goes to help all ISWA trips. The largest expense for Fargo is transportation. Have more wrestlers spreads that cost thinner for each individual. Having FEWER wrestlers makes it MORE EXPENSIVE. Pennsylvania does give a scaled "scholarship" where their state champs go for free. The IHSAA does not allow us to do this, though. We cannot give assistance based on performance. PA's high school organization allows it. The ISWA used to give a discount to Triple Crown winners, but the IHSAA has said that we can't do that anymore. Our hands are tied. Our only chance is to try to reduce expenses in some way. (Fancier singlets doesn't help with that). On that note, Team Indiana's singlets were among the most popular to wrestlers from other states. I liked it's simple design, and I told the coach who did the design that I and the kids like it. Don't bash something as trivial as a singlet design that you only saw on a small, fuzzy video on youtube.

If the wrestler had done a back arch, then definitely a 5 period over. However, he just fell back straight with all his weight landing on the kid's chest and face. That's pretty brutal. JTM - wrestling is NOT a brutal sport. Ultimate fighting is a brutal sport. We don't allow punching or kicking, why this? There was zero technique displayed in this move.

When the ISWA first began awarding the triple crown, Juniors were not able to compete at Folkstyle state. So, the ISWA gave them the chance to win the triple crown by including a high school state title. When middle school state first started, it was meant to be a qualifier for our state's middle school national duals teams. I agree that the tournament has grown and developed into an elite event and should be considered for the triple crown. The ISWA will have to discuss this.

This year's USAW Coaching Card gets you in free. A Copper or Bronze Coaching card gets you matside.

The top 4 junior placewinners at an ISWA qualifying (not beginner) freestyle tournament are automatically registered for junior freestyle state by the ISWA Statistics Director. Just show up Sunday morning to registration, and there will be a weigh-in card ready for you. If a junior wrestler did not place in the top 4 at a qualifying freestyle tournament, then that wrestler needs to preregister at trackwrestling.com. This applies for any high school cadets who wish to have the option of competing again on Sunday in the junior competition, provided they are finished with their cadet matches. These individuals will pay a new entry fee and weigh-in again Sunday morning. There is no cost to preregister - you only have to pay if you decide to compete. Sorry Bill, Thanks for catching my mistake.

grecoref and/or wrestlinggods, So just to clarify, there is no longer a choice of top or bottom ever. Is this correct? This would only be a change for the 0-0 situation since there was never a choice when there was a score.

Novice (actually peewee through cadets) don't have to preregister for freestyle state. They have to qualify by placing in the top 4 of a local freestyle tournament. All qualifiers are automatically preregistered by the ISWA Statistics Director (trust me, it's a lot of work). Juniors who have placed in the top 4 at a local tournament are also preregistered automatically. The only ones who need to physically preregister themselves are Juniors who have not placed in the top 4 at a local freestyle meet. This could include high school cadets that want the option of competing in Junior, if they are already finished competing as a Cadet.

Is this a very recent rule change? My interpretation of the wording of the rule was that if the first period did not go to a clinch (i.e., tech or pinning situation), then red would be on top in the second period in the case of a 0-0 score. Also, the wording I read gave choice of top or bottom in the event of a 0-0 score. Is this not the case?

Good point, but then shouldn't this be a rule to be decided by the school systems instead of the IHSAA? The school systems are the ones liable. Fortunately for me, I haven't had to worry about this rule since I've never had alumni before. Next year this may become an issue I have deal with. It's good to know how the IHSAA responds. I'll have to ask my AD how he'd respond.

I posted this in a thread in the Ask the Official section, but thought it would get seen more here. With Greco tournaments starting, it's important for coaches, officials, wrestlers, and parents/fans to understand the recent rule changes to Greco matches. I feel these changes are very good and will help ensure that the correct wrestler wins each period and the whole match. This is from themat.com: March 12, 2009: The following document is in regards to the rule changes implemented by FILA on January 31, 2009. This relates to Article 48 (specifically the Ordered Hold in Greco-Roman Wrestling), which begins on page 44 in the 2009 USA Wrestling Rule Book. The Greco-Roman matches are still won by winning 2 periods of 2 minutes broken down into 90 seconds of regular wrestling and 30 seconds of ordered ground wrestling. The wrestler who takes the clinch will be able to choose between the clinch position (reverse body lock) or the par terre position with his/her hands resting on the opponent?s shoulders and a knee to the mat. USAW modification: For all age groups 14 years and younger, the athlete starting in the clinch position must have both knees on the mat. In all periods, the wrestler who is winning by points after 90 seconds will have the advantage of the clinch and will not be penalized if he/she does not score during the 30 seconds. In such situations, if the top wrestler does not advance his/her position, the wrestlers may be placed in the standing position again to complete the period. At the end of 2 minutes, the winner of the period is declared. If after 90 seconds the score of the first period is tied 0-0, the advantage of the clinch will first be given to the red wrestler. If the situation is repeated in the second period, the advantage of the clinch will be given to the blue wrestler. If the first period does not go to the clinch (technical superiority ended the period before 90 seconds has lapsed), red will be on top in the second period if the score is 0-0 after 90 seconds. When the clinch is ordered after a tied score of 0-0, the top wrestler has to score to win the period. If the top wrestler does not score any point(s), the bottom wrestler will receive 1 point and win the period. If each wrestler won a period and the 3rd period is tied 0-0 after 90 seconds, the choice of the position (top or bottom), will be given to the wrestler who scored the highest number of technical points in the first two periods combined. If the two wrestlers scored the same number of technical points, the value of the points will be taken into consideration (wrestler who had the highest scoring move will have choice). If this still doesn?t allow reaching a decision, the advantage of the clinch will be determined by draw. USAW modification: It is common for this to be done by a coin flip. If no technical point is scored during the 30 seconds, 1 point will be awarded to the bottom wrestler and he/she will be declared the winner of the match. A few points to help clarify:  For the first two periods, at the end of 90 seconds, the wrestler with the most points (example 2-1) would be on top. If the wrestlers are tied (not 0-0), least number of cautions is the first criteria (wrestler with least amount of cautions will be on top), then the value of the points will be taken into consideration (wrestler who had the highest scoring move will be on top). If they are still tied, the wrestler who scored last will be on top.  In the third period, if the score is tied 0-0 after 90 seconds, the wrestler who has scored the most points in the first two periods will have choice of position. If they are still tied, the wrestler with the least amount of cautions will have choice. If they are still tied, the wrestler with the highest scoring move(s) will have choice. If the criteria is still unsettled, the position will be determined by draw.  In the third period, if the wrestlers are tied (not 0-0), the wrestler with the least amount of cautions will be on top. After that, the value of points will be taken into consideration (the wrestler who had the highest scoring move(s) will be on top). If the score is still tied (example 1-1), the wrestler who scored last will be on top.  If a wrestler is in danger at 90 seconds, the match continues without going to the clinch. If action goes out of bounds or the wrestler gets out of danger, the referee can restart in the standing position when action has ceased.  The top wrestler is allowed to have a knee between the bottom wrestler?s legs when starting.  If there is inactivity during the 30 second clinch, the official has the option of stopping the match and restarting in the standing position.  The only chance of a draw (ball draw or coin flip) is in the third period.  The freestyle clinch remains in effect the same as in 2008.

Everyone but Coach Weimer! Wrestle him at your own risk! The biggest risk of wrestling Weimer is that if, by some fluke, he were to actually get a takedown on you, he will be bragging about it forever!

I agree that the number of state qualifiers should be proportional to the number of students. Y2 always mentions the argument that every school gets to enter 14 wrestlers at sectionals so it should be equal. However, the true first round(s) of sectionals are wrestled in the room as wrestle-offs. Every wrestler in the state has an opportunity to qualify for state - not just the 14 that compete at sectionals. Y2 - When you read this - I don't understand why you dismiss the JV wrestlers with this argument when you emphasize the importance of having many JV wrestlers as partners when you argue the advantage big schools have with the extra guys in the practice room. In my mind, you have to choose one argument or the other. Either is an excellent point for class wrestling, but you simply cannot have both.

Thanks for posting this article so that I could spend 10 minutes of my day reading about how bad of a coach I am. Some of my responses to the numbered statements in the article... 1. College ADs are going to do what they want regardless of any "endowment". The Div. 1 program that I wrestled for dropped it after I graduated even though we were completely self-funded. 3. I fail to see the author's rationale that adding a second class will automatically double participation. Another 20,000 participants in California? Doubtful. Another 3500 participants in Indiana? Very unlikely. 4. We can't all attend college duals because many of us are in the middle of coaching the high school season, a youth program, and sometimes even a junior high program. I've recorded and watched every college dual on the Big Ten Network this year along with the occassional Big 12 dual on Fox Sports Midwest. I've also encouraged my wrestlers at all ages to watch. We simply don't live close enough to any college with wrestling to be able to go. 5. I'm confused. In statement #2 the author talks about how Iowa and its coaches are leaders for the college wrestling community, but now he is saying that they need to stop. 6. Telling coaches how bad they are is not a very good motivator to keep coaches, let alone retaining the youth wrestlers. 7. I'm sorry, but talking on a message board doesn't accomplish much of anything. With that thought, I'm done with this post.

Okay snoopy, you got me. I thought that by posing these as questions, you were hoping for honest, relevant responses. Now that I see that you were trying to prove a point with these questions, my answers weren't very helpful at all. I don't coach at a small school so there is no way I could possibly understand your circumstances with the school, wrestlers, and community. I'm also not old enough to have been around when coaches were not allowed to coach their wrestlers on the mat - I've only heard stories of that - and this is the first time I've ever heard a coach infer that it was better the "old way".