AndyStJ

In that case, single elimination everywhere is the way to do it None of these weak top 4 moving on. Send on the one champion from semistate and the other 15 can watch from the stands. At least only the best wrestler on the day would go on, and everyone would have an equal chance to advance as champion. Single elimination is harsh, but is actually more fair than the way IHSAA does wrestling now.

I am also in favor of this. And the best way to find out the best wrestler on the day is to have wrestlebacks. Now it is to some the degree the wrestler whose dice roll best. And it might surprise you that I am also in favor of evening the playing field for small schools.

The 4 wrestlers who would beat the other 12 wrestlers in the bracket, if given a chance. Or have already beaten them.

I will have to say that this was done during lunch break, so may have errors, but this shows my objections to the current semistate setup. Let's say that we want the best 4 wrestlers to qualify from each weight in each semistate. (If we don't, then why not?) Under the current setup with random draws, assuming that the better wrestler always wins, the odd of the top four wrestlers actually qualifying for state is: 100% all 4 qualify if all 4 are from different regionals. Because they are in different pods. 33% all 4 qualify if 2 of top 4 are from one regional. 50% all 4 qualify if 2 of top 4 are from regional A and 2 of top 4 are from regional B. 16.7% chance that only 2 of 4 will qualify. This is horrible. 33% all 4 qualify if 3 of top 4 are from one regional. 100% all 4 qualify if all 4 are from same regional. This is unlikely. I think that these odds are stupid. If you had wrestlebacks, the chance of top 4 qualifying goes way up, although I have not done the math.

Adam, I have seen you wrestle on several occasions and you always came looking to score, even though you did not always come out on top. Best of luck to you in the future and all of the LC wrestlers this week.

To give another measure of how easy it would be, you would go from 16 matches per weight class to 18 matches per weight class. Dirt simple.

In IHSAA world, where both seeding and wrestlebacks are evil. I can understand not seeding SS as you have regional 1 vs 4 and so on, but adding wrestlebacks would make it closer to having the best wrestlers advancing, not the luckiest draws.

The obvious answer, used by literally every other state in the United States except for the state of IHSAA, is wrestlebacks.

ECSS 150. Smith-Nowaczyk in ticket round. Two potential state placers. Uncool, IHSAA.

EVSS 120. Haines-Henderson in ticket round. Not cool to have a State Semifinal in the ticket round, IHSAA.

Let me ask a slightly different question: How many SS weights will have one ticket round match in a weight with 2 top-16 wrestlers meeting, and another ticket round in the same weight with zero top-16? I bet this happens at least 4 times per SS. If you seeded, the number would be close to zero, and if there were wrestlebacks it wouldn't matter. But we are going to see good wrestlers staying home in two weeks because IHSAA doesn't do basic things that every other state does. We will be able to answer this question as soon as brackets are released.

Looking on the bright side, there are almost certain to be several retirements among South Bend HS coaches over the next couple of years. An ambitious young coach willing to take it on the chin for a while would have an open field to work with.

If you have 3-4, there would be 2 additional matches per weight class, but it would need one additional round of wrestling. It is more fair, but I guess the question is now what can be done. I am really in favor of anything better than now that can be pushed through IHSAA.

First off, I am strongly in favor of full wrestlebacks, but that is not going to happen soon, or probably ever. I also think that the worst aspect of the IHSAA wrestling tournament is the four-wrestler Semistate pod, where it is single elimination to qualify for state. A little while ago, someone gave the situation at 120 in Evansville, where one regional has three top 8 wrestlers, and another has one top 8 wrestler. These four seem on paper to be the strongest, but there is only a one in three chance that it will even be possible for the four of them to qualify for State because there is a two in three chance that two wrestlers will be in the same pod. Completely luck of the draw, with nothing that can be done. Other Semistates and weights will also have top-16 matchups in the ticket round, with one wrestler staying home for State, and other pods having more favorable draws. I think this is blatantly unfair to our wrestlers. My minimalist proposal is that everything stay the same except: Instead of the 3-4 match we have two repechage matches. Match 1: Ticket round loss to finalist A vs semifinal loss to finalist A Match 2: Ticket round loss to finalist B vs semifinal loss to finalist B Winners of Match 1 and 2 qualify for the state finals. This will only require one additional match per weight class, so 14 total per Semistate, and the matches would be held at the same time as 3-4 now, so it would not take any longer. I think that this solves a lot of the Semistate draw problems, although not all. It is a bit like the Olympic procedure but simplified. Good points: 1. the "I have the state champ (or state top in my ticket round so I have no shot" problem goes away. Once you make the ticket round, you would have to lose two matches to not qualify, but only if your ticket round is against a finalist. If you lose in the ticket round against someone who loses the semifinal, your claim to top-four in semistate is not very strong. 2. It would take zero extra time, and only one extra match per weight class. 3. It is really simple. 4. It is better than what we have now. Bad points: 1. You would have two SS 3rd place, like the Olympics. You could have one additional final 3-4 match, but that would take more time and one more round. Or, you could say that the wrestler who lost to SS champion is 3rd and the wrestler who lost to SS runner up is 4th. Or you could pick out of a hat: IHSAA likes that. 2. Losers in the first round are still short of luck. But even with full wrestlebacks, I think that very few 1st round SS losers would qualify for the State Finals. So what do you think?

This exact thing happened at a Northern Indiana HS a few years ago. I don't know if it is still happening. Their wrestling team remains extremely bad.

Two in three chance that top-8 wrestlers meet in the ticket round and one doesn't make State finals. Indiana having only 16 spots is tough enough, but the lack of wrestlebacks means that top wrestlers will be staying home. This scenario is also likely in other Semistates where certain regionals are deep in certain weights. WRESTLEBACKS!

I have said this before, but wrestling is completely different from other individual sports like track or golf. In track, you can practice the high jump, or shotput, or 400m perfectly well without a high level partner. Golfers spent inordinate amounts of time on individual skills like putting, chipping and driving. It is literally impossible to improve much at wrestling without a practice partner near to your size who is at a good enough level. A few small schools (Way to go, Rochester!!) get a critical mass, but without it you are in trouble. And outside practices or camps are banned in-season. How do the small schools compete then?

Here is an alternate reality that is insane, but maybe fair. It is also the most metal way to do things. What about a seeded single elimination state tournament? Let every school in every class enter TWO wrestlers, but only one can be seeded. Sectionals: you can handle up to 64 wrestlers in a single-elimination tournament to meet the six match limit. 32 would be a more likely upper limit and would give a max of five matches in a day. One winner per weight class. Everyone else is done. Skip regionals and semistate. State is a 32-man single elimination: reseeded! Two matches day 1, three matches day 2 to get a champion. Or if people are complete wusses, you could take two per sectional and have a 64 man State bracket. Harsh, yes, but to me it seems more fair than our current unseeded partial-knockout, partial consolation bracket system. And way cooler. Yeah, and I guess we could consider class wrestling.

Consider this official notice that my joking percentage is now reduced to zero. I just wish that he and Hockaday would go at it.

This scoring looks fair except ... I think that a tech fall without nearfall points should get you 3 bonus points. That is the hardest thing to accomplish in any wrestling match!!! Way harder than a pin!

The most interesting thing here, aside from the top 4 seed being strong, is that 9 of 14 number 9 seeds made it to day 2.

Leading late in the match and walking backwards out of bounds is the definition of fleeing the mat: "Going out of the wrestling area or forcing an opponent out of the wrestling area, by either wrestler at any time as a means of avoiding wrestling, is a technical violation ". Similarly for wrestlers who hug the edge of the mat and then dive out of bounds to avoid a takedown. Fleeing the mat does not require a warning but is never called. I wish refs would call it as it would make some matches much better.

FSU Football agrees with you.

The issue of "second placer at regionals" vs "1st place State Champ" in the ticket round is in my opinion the worst feature of IHSAA. If there is an unbeatable State Champ in your semistate from another regional and you placed lower than 1st in yours, you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting him. You are better off being in the same regional as State Champ, where it is impossible to hit him at semistate until you have qualified for State. The solution is obvious: full wrestlebacks.