doctorWrestling

I totally understand your point and it is messed up, but wouldn't you consider this weight at your sectional a rare circumstance? If a 21-4 kid isn't getting a seed at sectional, someone worthy is definitely not making it to regional. How do you prevent a coach in that scenario from not just bumping kids up during duals to avoid losses? There are other games to play that have the same result as forfeiting. I still think the problem is controlling where the pigtails are wrestled but I may be missing something.

I agree. Just curious if we are talking about buscowrestling where it sounds like if he hadn't volunteered would have left a position empty. Putting a guy on the spot to make that decision or even a group to make that decision may not have been able to come up with the specific scenarios that cause the problem. It appears they would have to assume some coach would be out to screw kids by forfeiting when they had a kid who could wrestle to make the decision everyone wanted them to make. I think they made an honest mistake when pressured for a decision. They should work to correct it, but to beat them up for making an honest mistake doesn't seem right. It still sounds like the only real solution to this is getting the unseeded pigtails away from the #1 and #2 seeded kids. I don't know anything about the iswa stuff. Volunteers in general don't do it to mess it up or screw people over. Maybe they hold on to old ways too long and get in the way of advancement or better ways. If these are leaders and holding things back intentionally, hold them to whatever standard you want.

I have to say this has made buscowrestling come out smelling like roses. I don't know why we always want to assume the worst of someone and the big school guy has to act like Busco's not worthy to make a decision because clearly the big schools should decide everything. All the guy did was volunteer, donate his time, and try to help. Then he is accused of shenanigans and demeaned. I would really hope coaches have more ethics than they are given credit for and there is a good reason why some stuff happens even if it appears bad to those without information on the scenario. I don't know anyone in this drama, but would say thanks to the guy who volunteered. I am sure none of them intended to screw kids over. Hopefully they do listen and make improvements and everyone learns from mistakes made. As a whole (with few exceptions), everyone in the sport ( I will make an exception for the IHSAA who I do believe doesn't care or know about the sport ) is more like your brother than your enemy.

I couldn't disagree more. There are tons of kids who don't want to lose every match as freshmen that can be very good wrestlers as juniors or seniors. I want that kid around to find out what they can become and to give them a chance to be a part of the team. A big freshman can't be treated like a senior - they are two completely different animals.

I guess that makes sense, but couldn't there be an exception made for this case? I can't see how it is fair to eliminate a kid based on a pigtail match. Sorry to have to ask this on this thread, but are there many sectionals like this and are there other sectionals with less than 8 that could be rearranged to eliminate the issue?

Man, I have been out of Indiana wrestling for a while but after finally getting to page six I think I understand why all the fuss. So the loser of a sectional pig tail match is out of the tournament? Isn't this the real problem here? I can't believe there isn't more outrage over that huge flaw in the system if I am understanding this correctly. To address JMILL and the others who say you should always throw a kid out there to take a beating instead of forfeiting, can you please understand that you don't have the same problems as others do and that maybe a coach has a reason for protecting a kid. For example, we have a freshman 215lb kid who will eventually be a very good wrestler but weighs around 195 and has 1 year of experience and is clearly not ready to wrestle a returning state qualifier level senior at 215. He has 1 varsity win and usually does not make it through the first period but fights his butt off and takes his lumps because he is the only option for the team. I want that kid to continue in the sport. If I decide to forfeit a match to protect that kid and keep him from getting hurt or completely demoralized and drive him to quit, I think that is more important than your 1 in 8 chance of drawing into a pig tail bracket at sectional or allowing your kid to get 15 takedowns. The kid is not a snowflake, he is the best lineman on our freshman team. I feel it is my duty to decide what is best for that kid and his retention in the sport. You can't expect a kid with 1 year in the sport to think that getting pinned in the first period repeatedly is fun. He should really be JV but there are matches that kid can compete in at a varsity level, but they probably aren't against a team like Brownsburg. If that means you get a forfeit, that does stink but it is not the end of the world and it will not cause your kid to quit. I can't build a program if I can't keep kids like that, but more importantly we shouldn't run kids out of the sport just because we have a hole in our roster.

Hopefully it is a discussion between coach's and kids. My coach told me to stop doing it to lesser opponents in high school. To tell you the truth, as a young kid all I thought about was more takedowns and didn't event think about it. As an adult and coach, there seems to be no point to it. If it is a necessary strategy to win, then by all means do what you have to do. If it is about getting 15 takedowns against at kid who can't defend himself, then you have to start to wonder what you are teaching your kids. At some point if you consider what the definition of "unsportsmanlike" is, I would have to agree that playing with an opponent to pad your stats probably is not sportsmanlike.

I think you meant Jeff Jordan.

I wasn't lying when I said Penn vs Niles would be fun. Great match that came down to a late third period takedown between the heavy weights to determine the match. Was happy to see Niles get that win. DCC was also as good as expected. I think I was most impressed by the freshman Wagner from Zionsville at 119. He had a really good match with Kamali ( committed to wrestle at Virginia ) from DCC and looked ready to go with anyone.

Our AD scheduled a middle school meet that is at least an hour and a half away during finals week. We would get back to the school no earlier than 10 PM by my best estimate. We also see the same team 7 days later. I asked if it could be moved and he said: I am not sure that exams are that big of deal at middle school, we can leave meet in place but if parents opt to not have their kids go then we can handle it that way.

I know a little about DCC and Niles and think I have a feel for Penn. I really look forward to those match ups. If you don't know Coach Hesson from Niles, you are missing out. He is a true treasure of a coach and person. Niles always has a tough nosed team of kids who are going to compete hard. This Niles team might be one of their best in recent years. Not sure what the score will end up, but it will be a fun match. DCC is loaded. I hope they can be challenged and continue to come back. Even if they sent their second team in the future, they would do very well. They are a great addition to this dual. You won't be disappointed by them.

Here you go. 103 Rehfeldt, Daniel 112 Johnsen, Devon 119 Kamali, Benyamin 125 Trupp, Camden 130 Moscovic, Stone 135 Newton, Rhett 140 Gilcher, Derek 145 Davenport, Kevon 152 Urso, Joseph 160 Amine, Cameron 171 Wagh, Aidan 189 Cox, Rory 215 Turner, Easton 285 Kolcheff, Steven

This starts to get real tricky real fast. I hate to see kids not given opportunities based on their school size. If you are a really good kid on a small team and want to wrestle the best competition and don't have an opportunity at your small school, that is going to cause kids to look for other options. The rich get richer when the kid transfers and a small school just lost a kid they probably wanted to build their program around. I agree duals with large and small schools probably don't make sense, but hopefully there is room for some small schools in tournaments to get a chance to wrestle tougher competition. Sometimes its hard for small schools to get a shot to do that, but I think most really appreciate it. Since we are throwing out ideas, anyone else think 6 points is just too much for a forfeit? It seems like there could almost be a way to check if there is a kid available to wrestle that spot based on certifications or something. If the school has someone and doesn't wrestle them - 6 points. If the school really has nobody - 3 points. Would be a great way for coaches to show kids real life honor in adhering to the spirit of the rule and not try to game the system. Would hate to think its not realistic.

Those are completely fair arguments also. I think I have seen posts that middle schools were moving to the 2 piece before this year. If that is correct, some of the kids who were introduced to the sport with 2-piece could also be making their way into the singlet this year and continuing to wrestle. We have a few in that boat for sure.

I think we all agree it could be a few things coming together at the right time, but if you were running a business and those were sales numbers what would you choose to invest in to grow the sport? I can't see how this is just a counting change or mistake. Something happened and you saw a 17% increase. To me, you have nothing to lose by going to a 2 piece uniform. I have never heard a kid say he would quit if they couldn't wear a singlet, but I have heard plenty say they won't wear a singlet. If you try it and don't get the results you want ( which to me is 1 more kid ), you can always change it the next time. Obviously, you would want to continue with every other way you can to recruit in addition to this.

Probably not one reason only, but if you look at those numbers and not see decline, decline, decline, better than where you started, you aren't paying attention. The only real change for this year is uniforms. Does it hold up in the future - who knows. I will take getting 1 kid to try it for 1 year though any day.

The second time around was a much more affable affair. The first period had a ton of scrambling, but that usually doesn't end up well for anyone when Meredith is involved. Looked like Mr. Red improved and closed the gap a little, but Meredith was never really in trouble in my opinion.

It sounds like Chad Red vs Bryce Meredith could happen again this weekend at CKLV if they both make it through a loaded field. I think Yianni may be a big problem, but hopefully it happens and we see if the bad blood is still there and if Mr. Red can flip the result. I will let you know if it does since I am now aware that a lot of people who were interested in their first match will not have a way to watch it.

We have used them a few years in middle school without a single penalty. I have seen kids grab the shorts ( pretty much only when getting pinned ) but the ref ignored it, which was fine because it wasn't helping them anyway and as long as the kids have them tied there was no issue. I will say I have seen people grab singlets also - probably at about the same rate as they grab shorts from what I have seen. Even if there are a slightly few more minor issues, I would prefer them over singlets for the future.

I only know from my experience that there seems to be constant camera issues for the tournaments we purchase on track. Maybe I just purchase tournaments from people with bad equipment, but it is consistently unreliable. I have more than one kid and I often go coach one and my wife stays home with the other. I then get text after text from my wife saying the camera isn't working again. Then if I go home and want to watch a match for the tournament, it is either missing or the wrong match. Trust me, we have been refunded multiple times and consistently after sending proof that half the matches are not there. That's what made me say "How are they still in business". I wish it worked like it should, but until I see it I can't believe it. I will concede these are out of state tournaments so maybe it is great in Indiana. I assumed the issues were the same with others, that may have been a bad assumption. It is a great idea. It just hasn't worked well in my case.

Flo is a no brainer for me. You get the live events, but more importantly you can watch archived matches ( all rounds usually ) from any tournament in floarena. I guess I am comparing them to trackwrestling who wants to ding you ( $10 or $20 idk ) for every tournament - that ticks me off. If you subscribe to Flo, you never get charged for stuff in floarena. I guess I don't even notice the ads you can usually skip after 10 seconds. I can't imagine giving Flo up because they throw ads on the stuff they offer to people who aren't subscribed. While I am ranting about trackwrestling, it seems like they don't show you the mats you want to see more than half the time because their cameras are broken. And their archives get messed up so if you wait a couple months, the stuff you paid for no longer exists. How are they even still in business? I tell people all the time about how there used to be 2 hours of wrestling on TV for the whole year. That was an edited version of the NCAA championships and you better know someone who had cable. I will pay for Flo.

I thought for sure someone would have a thread on this by now. It appeared the escalation was probably not warranted to me. Maybe there were some heavy hands, but nothing you don't see in a normal college wrestling match. I thought I saw Red throw a punch after he appeared to start the whole thing. I wonder if he gets a seat to watch the next dual or maybe its no big deal. Hopefully it was a one time thing.

It feels like saying "you can get hurt walking across the street" or "you can get hurt in any sport" doesn't quite live up to what is really happening in football. I feel like with wrestling being 1 on 1 and having a referee only watching 2 kids at a time, it is astronomically safer than football. I feel a kid can defend himself against 1 other person and the ref can actually stop things before they get out of hand. I believe football is 4 to 22 for refs to kids with no chance of stopping a potentially dangerous situation. Whether its a running back who is getting hit high and low by multiple tacklers or a lineman who is engaged while his teammate gets knocked over on their leg, there is a lot that goes on that a kid cannot possibly protect themselves against. Not to mention how many tackles include someone grabbing a leg and rolling.

Does he not usually wear a shirt?

I saw they are adding a new building for wrestling and volleyball. Does anyone know more about it? Hopefully it helps with recruiting. It seems like there are a bunch of schools adding new facilities this year to include Ohio State, Campbell, Maryland. https://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-university-plans-new-arena-for-volleyball-wrestling