warsawwrestling Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It doesn't happen in a class system either. Kids still do a ton of work to become state qualifiers/placers/champions. So again, why should we have a system designed that kids must be one sport athletes? Even you posted an argument against this. Most of ours are not......they do freestyle also....lol I said this back on probably page 6.......I have no problem with 2 classes (8 in each at state), as long as there were wrestle backs in regional and semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It doesn't happen in a class system either. Kids still do a ton of work to become state qualifiers/placers/champions. So again, why should we have a system designed that kids must be one sport athletes? Even you posted an argument against this. So if your goal by classing wrestling is to make the state as a whole better at wrestling wouldn't it become even more necessary that kids become one sport athletes because now its even more difficult than before to be elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Lol no i completely agree if you want to be elite you have to put in the dedication... Big school or small... and like you have said at small schools because of various reasons they do not do this... but classing wrestling wont increase the time that kids with dreams of being elite will spend wrestling.... those kids are already doing it... I'm saying that at one point you say this "work harder" mentality is stupid but at the same time you agree thats what it takes to be elite A small school kid like you gets pulled in many directions in their off seasons, such as football, wrestling, and maybe track or baseball. He has to make those choices on what he does. When a kid has extra motivation for one of the activities they will find extra time for it. Maybe they'll skip out on some football or baseball activities to attend a camp or an offseason event. These kids work hard, they just are spread out with other sports and activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 A small school kid like you gets pulled in many directions in their off seasons, such as football, wrestling, and maybe track or baseball. He has to make those choices on what he does. When a kid has extra motivation for one of the activities they will find extra time for it. Maybe they'll skip out on some football or baseball activities to attend a camp or an offseason event. These kids work hard, they just are spread out with other sports and activities. So they are becoming more specialized and taking away from the other sports like you were completely against a few pages ago? swain358 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Because as you get a smaller and smaller skill set, that set of skills is not found in all of the populations. So at each level we are looking at you would actually be eliminating some small schools from the equation at each level. Back to the height idea. If we said 6 Foot tall= sectional roster. It would be expected that all schools regardless of size would have 14 six foot tall kids. If regional s= 6'5'' Then it is probably safe to assume that most schools have at least 1 kid walking the halls that is 6'5". You would naturally expect there to be more 6'5'' kids at a big school, but most schools would still meet this criteria. Semi-state- a bigger jump so lets say 6'10, at this point most big schools would still have a 6'10'' kid, or maybe a few walking around. Several small schools would too, but now you would start to eliminate several small schools entirely, because they simply do not have a 6'10'' kid walking around their population. The pool of schools at this point is lessened, this is why you would see the drop off. Now instead of 100% of the 13% we are dealing with 75% of that 13%. At the same time we are probably dealing with lets say 90% of the 24% (2A schools) and 100% of the 63% (big schools). State= 7' Now we would see that not even all big schools would have a 7' kid walking around. Small schools it would be very rare, but there would still be some schools with a 7' kid. So now lets say were are looking at a populations of 30 % of the small schools, 45% of the medium schools, and 75% of the big schools. I could keep going on with this, but the point is that as the skill set becomes smaller, the % of schools that had a kid with that skill set to begin with gets lower, thus why we see the small disparity in qualifiers, and the larger on in placers. Your posts gets longer and make less sense. This is the critera you selected. 13% is the number that YOU decided made the most sense. Now that 1a isn't close to that number suddenly that skill set has vanished from the 1a population. If all is equal then the percentages would fall in line, the fact is that they don't, and your useless comparisons prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm sorry I shouldn't sound so condescending. I just want to put this out there again I completely respect your opinions and truly appreciate the fact you are putting this much time and effort into making the sport better. Whether i agree with you or not wrestling is an amazing sport and taught me many great life lessons. Hell it made me the person i am today. Thanks for your hard work and dedication to the sport! warsawwrestling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So they are becoming more specialized and taking away from the other sports like you were completely against a few pages ago? I forgot I need to draw everything out for you. Say a kid has 100 hours to put off season work in and is in two sports. So maybe right now he splits it 70 for football and 30 for wrestling. With a little EXTRA MOTIVATION maybe he starts putting 40 or 50 hours in for wrestling. He is still doing off season work, just putting more work in for wrestling. That helps WRESTLING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Your posts gets longer and make less sense. This is the critera you selected. 13% is the number that YOU decided made the most sense. Now that 1a isn't close to that number suddenly that skill set has vanished from the 1a population. If all is equal then the percentages would fall in line, the fact is that they don't, and your useless comparisons prove that. You obviously can't follow along with his logic... Whether it's because you truly don't understand it or just don't want to. Just take a minute and walk in his shoes and try to see the other side of the arguement. It might help you prove your point even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 You obviously can't follow along with his logic... Whether it's because you truly don't understand it or just don't want to. Just take a minute and walk in his shoes and try to see the other side of the arguement. It might help you prove your point even better. It's not logical to think that while this magical "state qualifier" gene is spread out evenly, but the "state placer" or "state champion" gene is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 You obviously can't follow along with his logic... Whether it's because you truly don't understand it or just don't want to. Just take a minute and walk in his shoes and try to see the other side of the arguement. It might help you prove your point even better. By the logic that he himself injected into this conversation, 13% would be from small schools. His argument makes zero sense based on his own logic. Correct or incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 You obviously can't follow along with his logic... Whether it's because you truly don't understand it or just don't want to. Just take a minute and walk in his shoes and try to see the other side of the arguement. It might help you prove your point even better. No it doesn't. 13% of the 7 footers should still be at 1a schools/ bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I forgot I need to draw everything out for you. Say a kid has 100 hours to put off season work in and is in two sports. So maybe right now he splits it 70 for football and 30 for wrestling. With a little EXTRA MOTIVATION maybe he starts putting 40 or 50 hours in for wrestling. He is still doing off season work, just putting more work in for wrestling. That helps WRESTLING. And the fact of the matter he is simply working harder or longer... which is what you don't belive in. You stated before kids in small schools shouldnt give up other sports. Kids at small schools are already working hard and so on... Yet now you say they need to dedicate more time (Work Harder) in order to become elite... Which is what we have been saying the whole time...This is the students choice. They all know if they want it they Is being the "ONLY" state chapion at your weight class not enough motivation? swain358 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The "semi-state qualifier" gene however is spread out unevenly For Semi State it comes out to 18.5% for 1A and 28.2% for 2A and 53.3% for 3A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 and we are a few percent from being at that 13% maybe if we simply offer money to these schools to start wrestling clubs year round we could give them the "motivation" needed to get kids to work harder in the off season? I'm not disagreeing that the PLACERS number is slightly off but i don't agree that classing wrestling is the BEST way to solve this problem. It is ONE way try to fix it but would have more issues that other EASIER fixes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And the fact of the matter he is simply working harder or longer... which is what you don't belive in. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 and we are a few percent from being at that 13% maybe if we simply offer money to these schools to start wrestling clubs year round we could give them the "motivation" needed to get kids to work harder in the off season? I'm not disagreeing that the PLACERS number is slightly off but i don't agree that classing wrestling is the BEST way to solve this problem. It is ONE way try to fix it but would have more issues that other EASIER fixes... So his logic is correct or incorrect then? It's not slightly off, it's way off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And the fact of the matter he is simply working harder or longer... which is what you don't belive in. You stated before kids in small schools shouldnt give up other sports. Kids at small schools are already working hard and so on... Yet now you say they need to dedicate more time (Work Harder) in order to become elite... Which is what we have been saying the whole time...This is the students choice. They all know if they want it they Huh, never said I don't believe in working harder. They will put more time into wrestling, which will help them achieve their goals in wrestling. You are failing to see this or comprehend it. Is being the "ONLY" state chapion at your weight class not enough motivation?Must not be at the 1A level and for a super heavy dosage at the 2A level this year. and we are a few percent from being at that 13% maybe if we simply offer money to these schools to start wrestling clubs year round we could give them the "motivation" needed to get kids to work harder in the off season? I'm not disagreeing that the PLACERS number is slightly off but i don't agree that classing wrestling is the BEST way to solve this problem. It is ONE way try to fix it but would have more issues that other EASIER fixes... The "state placer" gene is not evenly distributed 1A 5.80% That isn't slightly off in my book. 2A 24.11% 3A 70.09% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My point is simple. If 1 school can do it other can also. You guys are not using the correct multiplier. More students = more people that grow up to come back to teach, coach or whatever. Which means, since programs are not started by the little kids (current population) that are in it and by coaches and people (combination of past students) who care about wrestling, "your stats" are skewed. Once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So we are about 7% off.. Could we simply offer RTCS at these small schools? Could we fund raise at the state event to support year round clubs at these small schools? Could we offer special national events for these small school wrestlers to go compete in? There are lots of differnt ways we can give more motivation for small school wrestlers that are already dedicated to the sport reach the podium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) You guys are figuring it on the product. So we are about 7% off.. Could we simply offer RTCS at these small schools? Could we fund raise at the state event to support year round clubs at these small schools? Could we offer special national events for these small school wrestlers to go compete in? There are lots of differnt ways we can give more motivation for small school wrestlers that are already dedicated to the sport reach the podium. We have RTCS, this is how some kids end up in those "bigger schools" and skew the "smaller school" numbers. to make up the difference you are not talking about that many kids. Edited March 6, 2015 by warsawwrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Humble Jr. Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Two class system. One class for red heads and one class for the rest Super_Fan, bog190 and Y2CJ41 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So we are about 7% off.. Could we simply offer RTCS at these small schools? Could we fund raise at the state event to support year round clubs at these small schools? Could we offer special national events for these small school wrestlers to go compete in? There are lots of differnt ways we can give more motivation for small school wrestlers that are already dedicated to the sport reach the podium. The best way is to find out if this "state placer" gene is on the mother or father's side. We are 7% off with 6 years of data, that is less than HALF of what SHOULD be happening if our "state placer" gene was evenly distributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Two class system. One class for red heads and one class for the rest short or long hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So you think if we classed wrestling for 20 years and then suddenly unclassed it that we could increase the placers that 6% we are lacking now? Becuase to me it wouldn't do anything. 3A wrestling would now be even MORE dificult than before and they would STILL have to out train 1A kids in order to be a state placer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So you think if we classed wrestling for 20 years and then suddenly unclassed it that we could increase the placers that 6% we are lacking now? Becuase to me it wouldn't do anything. 3A wrestling would now be even MORE dificult than before and they would STILL have to out train 1A kids in order to be a state placer... no way.......with open enrollment kids would move all over. Super_Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts