Deadlock37 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I've seen a decline in this conference and is wondering what happened ? In the 90's Northrop and Snider were good programs ( Snider lasted a little longer than Northrop ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 No middle school programs, except for Blackhawk. Also there is a lack of club programs within these schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSBeatReporter Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 A few things. Snider went down hill right after the coach incident in Indy. There used to be a lot of football players that would wrestle but now they work year round whether it is practicing or conditioning and there is also a lack of interest. Like it is said above the middle school stuff in Fort Wayne isn't as big because there is either AAU basketball or AAU baseball year round to go along with school sports. Middle school kids aren't interested as much because they have oppurtunities in other sports which leads to a lack of club wrestling. The only way a kid will get in it is because of a brother or a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 The decline started about 8-10 years ago and it has happened for many reasons. The main reason is no middle school wrestling, but on that same token they had success(and a ton of it) without it for many years. The first "sub" reason is because wrestling has become a year-round sport the past 5-10 years. There are many, many more off season opportunities these days, and that's not just tournaments, its camps and clinics too. The second "sub" reason is the turnover in coaches in the SAC. When the SAC was in their prime, the coaches were very good and had been around for a while. The decline started when those coaches started to retire. I coached at Northrop my first year out of college(2002-2003) and saw the talent in the room, but my kids at Garrett are now coming in as freshmen with 3-4 years of experience at the middle school level. That is including about 15-20 matches in each of those seasons. Its hard to make up that experience with athleticism and just pure talent. It is definitely not easy to coach in the SAC and I give props to all the coaches that do, because its a constant uphill battle every year, every week, every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2212 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Y2, I have to disagree with you (I hope I don't get banned now Benito!). Athleticism and talent does make up (for the most part) with experience. Why are wrestling coaches beginning to see the light on strength and conditioning programs like BFS. I can go on and on where wrestlers relied primarily on athletic ability, at least as underclassman. Obviously they wont be three or four year place winners, but by the time they are juniors and seniors, they can become elite wrestlers. Look at some of the Northrop and Snider wrestlers: Woodson and Brownlee(not sure how much they wrestled before high school), Jamarcus Shepherd (played bb for a year or two), Starks, Brooks, Luther, etc... In 99 Northrop nearly beat an excellent belmont team on sure athleticism. The reason is consistency in coaching. The only coaches that have been around for awhile is the Dwenger coaches (J. Tone and Bennett). Props to them. There are not coaches in the SAC like Ester, Condon, Isaacs, Diprimio, Humble (was a SS), Ragle, Schwartzcoff, AJ, or Fred Tone in Fort Wayne anymore that spent time developing a rich tradition. Time may show the coaches in the SAC now are just as good, they just don't have the longevity. You put any of these coaches back in the SAC and these schools would start making some noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet130 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 8-10 years ago the SAC was on a decline? I don't think I have enough fingers to count the number of state champions and state placers/qualifiers from 1999-2003...My honest opinion is the decline started approximately 2003 (at the earliest), if not 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet130 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Y2, I have to disagree with you (I hope I don't get banned now Benito!). Athleticism and talent does make up (for the most part) with experience. Why are wrestling coaches beginning to see the light on strength and conditioning programs like BFS. I can go on and on where wrestlers relied primarily on athletic ability, at least as underclassman. Obviously they wont be three or four year place winners, but by the time they are juniors and seniors, they can become elite wrestlers. Look at some of the Northrop and Snider wrestlers: Woodson and Brownlee(not sure how much they wrestled before high school), Jamarcus Shepherd (played bb for a year or two), Starks, Brooks, Luther, etc... In 99 Northrop nearly beat an excellent belmont team on sure athleticism. The reason is consistency in coaching. The only coaches that have been around for awhile is the Dwenger coaches (J. Tone and Bennett). Props to them. There are not coaches in the SAC like Ester, Condon, Isaacs, Diprimio, Humble (was a SS), Ragle, Schwartzcoff, AJ, or Fred Tone in Fort Wayne anymore that spent time developing a rich tradition. Time may show the coaches in the SAC now are just as good, they just don't have the longevity. You put any of these coaches back in the SAC and these schools would start making some noise. Don't forget coaches like LeBeau in there, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 8-10 years ago the SAC was on a decline? I don't think I have enough fingers to count the number of state champions and state placers/qualifiers from 1999-2003...My honest opinion is the decline started approximately 2003 (at the earliest), if not 2004. There was a peak at around 1999 or 2000, when the SAC was very well represented at state. After that it started a very drastic decline. It didn't happen overnight. It started happening when the coaches like ace mentioned started to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2212 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Good call on "fast" Eddie Lebeau, but there was a definitely decline beginning around 00-01 as a whole. Pull some of the results for SAC championships. How much did Snider win by, 100? That is about the time Northrop started to decline, and since they were the other power besides Snider (dwenger had some nice teams in there too), I would have to say there was an overall decline. I think that is what y2 was referring to. I blame the decline in the SAC on him anyways, that is around the time he started coaching at Northrop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlock37 Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 No middle school programs, except for Blackhawk. Also there is a lack of club programs within these schools. Don't village woods middle school have one anymore ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 No middle school programs, except for Blackhawk. Also there is a lack of club programs within these schools. Don't village woods middle school have one anymore ? It's now Prince Chapman...they still have a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesnar45 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 SAC State Qualifiers from 99 to present: 1999-2000: Jonathan Brownlee, Snider (SQ at 135) Jarald Ridley, Northrop (3rd at 140) Kamal Macon, Concordia (SQ at 152) Josh Booker, Luers (8th at 160) Pat Ayelle, Luers (2nd at 171) Josh Buuck, Dwenger (4th at 171) Chuck Geyer, Elmhurst (7th at 189) Josh Lepper, Snider (4th at 215) Stacy Beaty, Concordia (SQ at HWT) Greg Wagner, Snider (2nd at HWT) 2000-2001: Andrew Buffalino, Snider (5th at 103) Gralan Early, North Side (2nd at 112) Brian Tun, Wayne (5th at 125) Joel Peters, Luers (5th at 130) Tom Reifenberg, Dwenger (SQ at 135) Brownlee (3rd at 140) Jamarcus Shephard, Northrop (8th at 152) Jamie Holman, Northrop (SQ at 160) Jason Woodson, Snider (2nd at 160) Buuck, (3rd at 171) Geyer, (2nd at 189) Beaty, (5th at HWT) Wagner, (1st at HWT) 2oo1-2002: Graham Hayden, Luers (7th at 112) Early, (4th at 119) Brian Tun, Wayne (2nd at 130) Bennie Hatch, North Side (SQ at 135) Joel Anderson, Concordia (SQ at 140) Brownlee, (3rd at 145) Doug Bush, Snider (4th at 160) Woodson, (1st at 171) Buuck, (3rd at 189) Matt Brown, Dwenger (SQ at 215) Marcus Wagner, Snider (SQ at HWT) 2002-2003: Jeff Papiernik, Snider (SQ at 103) Early, (1st at 119) Ryan Lineberry, Snider (SQ at 125) Adam Brueggeman, Luers (SQ at 130) Luke Waikel, Dwenger (SQ at 171) Wagner, (SQ at HWT) Chase Gorman, Dwenger (SQ at HWT) 2003-2004: Brandon Andrews, Snider (4th at 103) Papiernik, (SQ at 119) Qualyn Boone, Snider (SQ at 135) 2004-2005: Tynan Wilson, Snider (SQ at 125) Papiernik, (SQ at 130) Boone, (6th at 140) Alan McGee, Snider (SQ at 145) Devin Martin, Snider (8th at HWT) 2005-2006: Tanner Martin, Snider (SQ at 171) Adam Greene, Snider (SQ at 215) 2006-2007: Richard Barrett, Northrop (SQ at 125) Ben Reifenberg, Dwenger (7th at 130) Jordan Quinn, Snider (8th at 135) Aaron Myers, Luers (SQ at HWT) 2007-2008: Tony Lovejoy, Luers (7th at 119) Dan Nix, Dwenger (SQ at 145) Ryan Monce, Concordia (SQ at 152) (I apologize if any names were left off) I think it is clear to see that the drop off began to progress after the 2001-2002 season. Although guys like Brownlee, Early, and Woodson were incredibly athletic, when you look at 1999-2002 all of those guys were some of the best WRESTLERS in the state....It is hard to argue that afterr the couple of years when those classes graduate was when the SAC began to fall off the radar....just some info to take in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2212 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 And I think y2 coached in the SAC in 01-02, which eventually led to their destruction. Glad the Garrett kids have been able to overcome against all odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Nope it was 02/03, I was in college in 01/02! Ha, Fooled again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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