base

This had me fired up

I don't know what extent local college coaches are going through. I also don't know their budget, time, manpower or recruiting rules. I am suggesting that since your theory is that making early contact with wrestlers may lead to said wrestlers being interested in going to college and finding out more about scholarships and admission, AND since colleges would like to expand their net beyond just our current state tournament, AND that some smaller universities in Indiana would like to expand the number of walkons so their team is larger -- that perhaps they could find someone on their staff or associated with their staff to attend a more local venue where they will see some high quality wrestling and can make "early contact" with a relatively local set of wrestlers (and their coaches)

Not trying to be offensive here, but I can't understand why you are simply dismissing my thoughts on this. You said in an earlier post that if kids are shown attention earlier, then they may think about college wrestling more, and get better grades/testing/etc. I'm not even disagreeing with you here -- I'm saying that if that is a legitimate outcome, then why not show this "earlier attention" to wrestlers at events that are relatively local to your university. The odds of getting a local kid to "walk on" (because you did say they would love to increase their numbers, correct??) are far greater than recruiting a kid from 6 hours away.

Yeah, seriously, Trine and Manchester would love to have 30+ more kids on their roster? I can solve that one pretty easily. Trine and Manchester are both approximately 45 minutes from the Fort Wayne coliseum Both are about 1 hr 20 minutes from Mishawaka high school Send a representative (Assistant to the Regional Manager) to the Fort Wayne semistate and to the Al Smith tournament. Talk, hand out flyers, pass out t-shirts, whatever -- to every single underclassman there. Also catch some great wrestling, and promote how great your university is. The odds of a person from a relatively local school attending your small university would be (I think) FAR greater than the odds of landing a "small school state qualifier" from southwestern Indiana.

Per statistics from the NCAA, in fact only 2.6% of HS wrestlers are *PARTICIPATING* at college level. That's not a scholarship number, that is PARTICIPATING NCAA Participation by Sport

I do understand the part about college coaches seeing "two-time state champion" and giving that more credence than "two-time semi state qualifier". I didnt' consider adding another round to the tournament as "watering down" only because you are still taking the best kids. Watering down is adding kids to the tournament that would lose to kids that are not at the tournament. I'm starting to come around to the classed state idea a bit more -- i disagree with the entire premise of it really, but the fact that there may be college coaches out there who are scanning the list of Indiana wrestlers looking for "state placer" / "state champion" is causing me to reconsider. How about we get some small college coaches on here to give us some insight as to how they go about recruiting? That would be an excellent article. Trine, Wabash, UofIndy -- all would be fantastic to give their opinion on this and how class wrestling could have an effect versus, say summer wrestling results.

Well stated....I get what you're saying I'm still not convinced that the classing would lead to the results you are expecting. But, it is possible. I still argue that a wrestler of Crary's skill level "deserves" college wrestling attention moreso that a less skilled wrestler that just happens to go to a smaller school. But....if that's the high level look that college coaches are giving then maybe we should indeed put some names on the "small school state champion/placer" list that doesn't exist within our state now.

My argument is that I can't understand why some feel that it's necessary for an inferior wrestler to get "exposure" over a superior wrestler, and only because the inferior wrestler was a "disadvantage" because their school is small and they don't have the same resources / practice partners / etc We could apply an arbitrary label to a kid saying he's a 4-time small school champion, but if he still gets his butt kicked 8 out of 10 times by the large school kid that can't get out of the semistate ticket round, then why do you feel he's more deserving to get that exposure and college attention? Why not make 6 classes, so we have 6 kids that can apply the "state champion" label every year and get exposure? Joe, you mention that a college coach will want to come and watch 672 kids instead of 224. That sounds like a 2-day event to me. So why not keep the same 672 wrestlers, but expand the state finals by 2 rounds, or add 1 round and add wrestle-backs (32 kids per weight class = 448 wrestlers). Now, the "best" wrestlers are there for the college coaches to watch. Cody Crary from Munster didn't make it to state this year -- lost in the ticket round to Jack Tolin. So with your premise, it would make more sense for a college coach to see a small school guy (not the small school state champ, who would likely make it to state under any format, but those #8-16 small school wrestlers) to have college exposure more than Crary. Again, I say we focus on raising the technical abilities of all wrestlers, keep the classed team state, and expand the individual state to see Indiana wrestling really take off

#TheCounty is starting to sound more like #TheKanye

Why is this any different than training kids from different schools at your summer RoadRunner club, then having them go match up at ISWA Folkstyle or Freestyle state? Iron sharpens iron. If a coach/team chooses not to send their kids anywhere else then perhaps they will be the ones that are left behind as other schools work together for the betterment of all. Seems like the RWA kids practice together 60% of the year, why not make it 100% -- wouldn't it improve their overall wrestling level?

I will complain a little, then offer a different solution Football comparisons to wrestling are ridiculous -- you are comparing a classed team sport (football) and projecting that on an individual tournament. We do have a classed team tournament for wrestling. As far as exposure -- the best wrestlers should be rewarded, period. I cannot see how you can justify that a wrestler at a 1A school should be exposed to college coaches over a superior wrestler from a 2A or 3A school. Again, if college coaches want to see more athletes in one setting then expand the state finals to 2 more rounds. You could add the same amount of mats that you would add for a small-school tournament and divide up rounds 1/2 by weight. The most skilled wrestlers should be getting the exposure to college coaches The statistics do show that 1A schools do not get a proportional number of state placers. The statistics also show that nearly 10% of the state's forfeits are from a single sectional. Statistics can show many things, depending on what solution you are trying to beat everyone else over the head with. I know this has been hashed and rehashed over and over on the forums. I've had an open mind about classing the individual tournament, but have moved more towards the single class side of the fence. My solution: Open up in-season wrestling so that athletes can practice with other schools and with academies. Expand the state finals by 2 rounds by adding 4 mats and splitting the first and second rounds between weight classes. College coaches could choose to attend the first day (where wrestlers may be knocked out of the tourney, but may be a great fit for some colleges) or only attend the final day where they would theoretically see the "cream of the crop" Pros: Wrestlers from small schools could find area cooperative training centers where they would receive excellent instruction from skilled coaches (thus increasing the wrestling skill level state-wide) Wrestlers from small schools with many forfeits would have the chance to work out with varied practice partners to alleviate any discrepencies where a school only has a 106, 132, 160 and 250 lb wrestlers College exposure is given to the best wrestlers regardless of school size The area training centers would provide a great transition into freestyle and greco wrestling post-season for those who would continue wrestling Cons: Would need to determine how to staff and coach at the area training facilities, and provide enough of them so that travel time isn't too big of a burden. Could potentially rotate between a cluster of area schools Would the IHSAA ever allow something such as this? Do other states restrict wrestlers to only wrestle within their school during season, or are they allowed to supplement that with Contenders/RWA/CIA/Pride/Red Cobra/Maurer-Coughlin type training?

Making 2 or 3 classes will not help the situation. Small schools have inherent issues simply based on their student population. There is no getting around the fact that ultimately, Carmel has far more potential athletes for any sport than Prairie Heights does. If we want to raise the level of wrestling across the board, then there are other methods other than just inserting a multi class tournament. If the goal is to get more exposure, then expand the current state tournament another round or two and bring in more of the top wrestlers regardless of class. Once a classed tournament is put in place, there is likely no going back. What if this mythical flocking of more youth to wrestling doesn't occur. And if it does, are we benefitting the kids, the schools, or only our sport?

In looking at Joe's forfeit data -- I noted that there are 79 forfeits coming from one sectional (Southport). That is far and away more forfeits than any other sectional -- only 2 others are even over 40 (45 Lafayette Jefferson / 48 Twin Lakes). Out of 860 forfeits across the state, that means that nearly 10% of them are from one Sectional. So, I think you could argue that if we want to see the number of forfeits around the state decrease, a possibility would be to form a great inner city youth wrestling program that will prop up the numbers for this area which is clearly lacking the numbers. Within that sectional, however, Perry Meridian clearly has a great youth program. Do we really think that classing the individual tournament is going to solve the issues with numbers at that sectional? I do not

At this point, I am in favor of keeping with the current setup (classed TEAM, single INDIVIDUAL class) To make sense of it, each of the arguments needs to be addressed Goals of classing individual state (as I remember them, let me know if I have left some out): 1. Encourage more participation at smaller schools 2. "Better" wrestling in general as more kids are involved 3. More visibility for wrestlers from small schools to college coaches These specific goals take away the whole "it's not fair" argument because making it fair is not a stated goal of classed wrestling

My advice -- if wrestling at a high level is your utmost goal, then wrestle in the offseason and do conditioning/lifting specific to wrestling (i.e. "specialize") If it is not, then play the sports you have the most fun with.

One more idea -- can I suggest to Y2 that he has the Indianamat feature writer (I think it's Jeremy Hines) possibly get in contact with TheAncientElder and do a story on him and his passion for Indiana wrestling history? I think it would make a great article

Sent you an email Ryan. Really hope I am one of the first 13!!!!!

Thanks for taking the time to give that insight Mr Tucker. I think it's easy for ppl on the board to bash a family for doing something out of the ordinary, but it's easier to overlook all of the behind-the-scenes decision making that goes into it. I have been as guilty as others in the past, but I continue to live and learn. Best of luck to Jake, you and your family with your wrestling and academic futures!

It was a great match. I look forward to watching Mr. Streck manhandle some big uglies in the Big 10. As great of a match as it was -- it would have been even better had they pushed the 132 match to the end and there was a full crowd of 12,000 screaming lunatics present for the heavyweight battle! This was no heavyweight dance-a-thon. This match was 2 incredibly athletic beasts hammering on each other for 6 minutes. They deserved better than the meager audience that remained for their show of skill. If you *still* believe we should end every year with the heavyweights instead of a "showcase" match of the coach's choice, I can't see how you cling to that opinion. Streck and Samuels deserved better

Mr Tucker, now that Jake's HS wrestling career is over I'm interested in hearing about whether or not you have any regrets not keeping him in Indiana? I believe that as a parent, you do whatever you think is in the best interest of your children, so I'm not trying to re-hash all that. Just wondering if you are willing to give some more perspective on why you had Jake wrestle in Illinois. If you'd rather not, thats fine too

Fantastic job by these young ladies. Beautiful rendition - they sang it the traditional way and I love that

My take on the match -- Both nearfalls were equally quick in my mind, but I really feel like at the worst they would cancel each other out. So, I would say they were called consistently which is all I ever ask of a referee. As for the post-match celebration -- I don't fault Chad Red Jr one bit. Sure, he did "flee the mat" but it was to run and show appreciation to his hometown section (and family) which was going nuts. In a normal dual meet, maybe a ref calls something, but in this case, absolutely no way. He might be a little more "Terrell Owens" and less "Barry Sanders" in his celebration techniques, and you may have an opinion on which of those you prefer. But completing a career with a classic match like that, I don't doubt that the adrenaline was pumping and it was all in good fun and not directed at the other wrestler. The one thing I did see that I didn't like was New Palestine's assistant coach looking up a the Mater Dei crowd and giving them a "Shhhhh". Don't see how you can blame a hometown crowd for cheering wildly for their native son. Again, I don't mind celebration at all, but see no reason in that moment to feel like you have to grandstand to the (very worthy) opponent -- should have focused on celebrating Chad rather than denigrating fans. I'm happy I was there to witness one of the most exciting matches I've seen. I hope both of these young men adapt to college life, studies, and wrestling and continue to achieve high levels of success in the pursuit of their dreams.

I've been trying to track down a copy of each of these books -- if you have one that you'd be willing to sell please send me a message Echoes of the Elder Ready, Wrestle: A history of Indiana wrestling

Tickets should be free of charge from IHSAA, not IHSWCA. Who does all the ticket money and concession money go to anyways? More people in the stadium = more concession $$$

I vote that the wrestlers making the list each year should get a free entry into the state finals, and also possiblyadded to the parade of champions if they're not already there as a wrestler. This list is what being a student/athlete is all about. What a great way that would be to honor their achievements in a public way!