Rookies03

I understand the concern that Football coaches are not supporting kids going out for wrestling but how many wrestlers do wrestling coaches encourage to play other sports?  I ask because if we are only concerned that 3 kids out of 70 from the football team are wrestling and not that 3 kids out of 35 from the wrestling team are playing football then we are no better than the football coaches. 

And I would bet that if more wrestlers were multi-sport athletes we would see an increase in participation because those wrestlers could start to recruit kids from other sports.

One of the biggest problems with this is the fact that everyone wants stalling called, as long as it's not against them. More stalling should be called, especially in the first two periods, but coaches have accept that it is going to get called against them and stop complaining so much when it does.

One of the funniest things I see in gyms every weekend is the Coach that immediately wants a stalling call for backing up in neutral, not coming off the hips on top, or not coming up on bottom but when their wrestler does the exact same thing and stalling is call its the worst call the ref made all day.  If coaches want refs to be more consistent at calling stalling maybe coaches should be more objective in their views on stalling calls.

Wasn't there a new rule or emphases on change in situations giving time to recover from situations.  Something to the extent of giving the more aggressive wrestler the advantage.  For example a defensive guy on bottom does a move that takes him to his back, the count doesn't start till the bottom guys secures him.  Not sure if that is even correct, but thought it might have some ties to this subject.  A few years ago we had a kid do a roll through cradle, which was like slow motion but never stopped and got called pinned. 

I would say the tech fall wins.  In order for the guy spladle to be pinned there would be a change in position with would stop the match because of the tech fall.

If the defensive wrestler initiates a move and puts himself in a precarious position the offensive wrestler must "control" him before a nearfall count can begin.  I do not believe this to be a new rule but one most people don't seem to know about.

Of course "control" is always up to the judgment of the official.

I was told by the people running it that it will be the same weekend in 2016 (Jan 8th-10th).

Hopefully more Indiana wrestlers will be able to attend.

One thing a very wise person pointed out was the age of kids as incoming freshmen these days. More and more kids, especially boys, are starting kindergarten later and thus they are 15 before they enter high school. I know many kids who were 17 when they graduated including myself. Now it seems extremely rare that a kid is 17 when they graduate.

 

On top of that you have the "redshirting" that occurs, which again lead to older freshmen.

You posted this as I was posting my comment.  Amazing how close our posts are about this.

i think in general we are seeing better athletes in all sports because of the focus on only one sport in so many cases.....the superstar 3 sport athletes are far and few between now compared to 25 years ago.........they're still out there but just not as prevalent......the kids that do start focusing on one sport at a younger age see the payoff earlier in high school now.....

I would disagree that a kid is a better athlete because he specializes in one sport.  I would argue that the opposite is true.  A multisport athlete developes more athletic ability overall because of the different athletic skills learned in different sports.  A very easy way to see this is to watch a non-baseball athlete throw out a first pitch of a game. 

Probably the biggest question I would ask regarding the freshman and sophomore state champs is what is the actual age of these kids now compared to 15-20 years ago. More and more we are seeing parents wait to send their kids to kindergarden or first grade.  I was 17 when I graduated high school and now you see kids turn 17 before wrestling season their junior year. 

Im sure I missed it somewhere, but what happened to sopko during the hs season?

He lost in the ticket round of semi state to Bates from SBW.  Bates got an early lead and Sopko earned several TDs to take the lead.  With about 15 secs Bates hit a head lock and got the pin. 

I think there is a difference between losing weight(weight that will come off from practice) and cutting 

Agreed!

I would advise parents and coaches to not let kids step on a scale during the week.  This takes the emphasis on what you weigh and more on working hard.  I would guess that if you put most younger kids in a wrestling room for a week and change nothing else they will lose 1-2 lbs.  If you cut out fast food and sugary drinks then probably closer to 2-4 lbs.  Thats not cutting thats just being healthy. 

I also think we should get away from elementry school duals.  This creates a need to cut weight to make a lineup.  Keep it to individual tournaments and whatever you weigh at weighins is what you weigh. 

Instead of classing the individual tournament what about expanding the number of qualifers per weight class?  32 man bracket.  This would make the first round of semi state the ticket round and at least help out with the bad draws at semi state.  Can 8 mats fit at Bankers Life?  If so you run first 2 rounds of state on 8 mats on Friday night with all losers eliminated.  Saturday runs the same as it does now. 

This would bring 16 additional kids to state and Id imagine at least some of those kids would be from 1A and 2A schools.

IMO all this talk about Lee is because he is non stop offense.  Doesnt matter who he wrestles.  Im sure he could have wrestled a 3-2 match with Micic if he would have wrestled a different type of match but he just keeps coming and Micic was too much for him.  People love this style of wrestling so he has a ton of fans. 

Will Lee beat Micic?  Well we know that answer.  Will Lee beat Red?  I hope we find out.

So another freshman could win a title Lee place third and Lee wins freshman of the year base on "how he wrestles"? Would you also then have to consider which freshman is better looking? My point being you are putting subjective opinion before objective fact. JMO

There is a good chance that 106 will be won by a freshman but that would be against mostly underclassmen.  Getting beat by a nationally ranked senior is a little different. 

Related topic... does anyone have info on how to get full brackets of the state finals going back to the 90s or 80s?

Thanks,

Pete Peterson Pike over Antoine Neal from Lawerence North 152.  I think it was in 96 and Antoine was ranked 1 or 2. 

Has anybody figured out what it is about ISWA tournaments that makes everybody automatically forget how to park their car?

Same as how people magically forget how to count to 12 when they enter an express checkout lane at the grocery.  Some things just cant be explained. ;D

2. So many great matches will be happening, a couple rematches of last year and some new freshmen to make some noise, as in one to watch micic and Lee if it happens in the finals.

With so many great match ups... it got me thinking would this be the most competitive championship finals in the last 10-15 years.  When I went back and was looking at past results I noticed that 8 out of the last 10 state finals have had at least 1 pin in the championship round (5 with 2 pins).  I didnt count TF or MD but thought 8 out of 10 was a lot. 

Interesingly 2010 had no pins and 4 OT matches and 1981 had 7 pins.

From a fan of HS Wresling's perspective, I would like to see one class to crown the best in the state as a state champion and see the very best match ups possible.

 

From a fan of College Wrestling's perspective, I would like to see classed HS wrestling to allow our state's individual wrestlers to seem more accomplished on paper and therefor more easily recruitable. To most recruiters a 1x state qualifier, 1x state placer, 2x state champ sounds a lot better than a 3x state qualifier, 1x State placer.

 

In Conclusion, class wrestling in Indiana would dramatically improve the number of kids wrestling in college. With a scholarship more readily attainable more kids would want to be involved in the sport. Class wrestling is better for the kids and the sport. Quality of the state tournament for the fans be damned.

This is by far the best arguement to multiple classes that I  have heard.

or am i not supposed to have enough brains to know that. It is easy to know there are some small school state champions. what may make an affect is better coaching and ability to go and train places after season as in camps RTC or even a wrestling room all year long and need a say a "GOOD COACH" thats what play the factor not hey its not FAIR for some kids well guess what wrestling is fair step onto the mat get your butt kicked hey that kid is better and probably works harder than you haha with FAIR being said just sounds like a word that is always used for SOCCER

But this has been my thought on class wrestling all along.  Why does size of school determine how well an individual can compete.  You can say practice partners but kids from small schools can find a way... Marlan Stewart from Brebuf, Ryan Pribble Turkey Run, Matt Hurford Culver Community, Jeremiah Harvey Culver Community, Cody Phillips Union County, Michael Duckworth Union County and there are tons more of kids from small schools that worked hard despite being from a small school.

That makes perfect sense.  But you're assuming that each sectional has the top 4 in the correct order.  And that isn't true because sectionals don't have "true" 2nd's.  Say a #3 in sectional A didn't get a chance to beat sectional A's #2, then he has to face B's #2 who he has a 50-50 chance of beating.  And say he could easily beat B's #3 as well as A's #2.  But he didn't get a chance to face either one.

True 2nds should not be an issue at the Sectional because the wrestlers are seeded.  Yes we all know that some seeds arent correct but they are seeded based off of actual data and not a random draw. The idea for wrestlebacks is to eliminate the luck of the draw not to give a kid another chance. 

That being said, I agree there should be wrestle backs in regionals. One bad match should not end a kids season.

So what happens if a kid has 1 bad match in wrestlebacks?  Should he get a do over?  I am just not seeing your logic.

Only one that should have wrestle backs is Semi-State.

 

The reason being is because you have to be a regional champ, or beat a regional champ. If #1 and #2 in the state are in the same regional. That means a regional champ is gonna get beat by #2, even if that wrestler might be #3 in the state! Does that mean the guy that is thought of as the possible 3rd place finisher at state doesn't deserve to go? He did everything he could besides beat a Guy he wasn't "supposed" to beat.

Bingo!

If a Regional champ is "unlucky" to draw into a top 2 kid or for that matter a #2 at a Regional draws into the #1 ranked kid in state it was more about the "luck" of the draw.

If a Sectional runner up draws into a stud first round well he was only given that draw based on how he wrestled at sectional and his sectional seed is based on how he wrestled all season.  Then only luck involved is which school district you live in.

True ONLY when both sectionals are equal which in most all cases that is not. Therefore, wrestlebacks are needed. So while I disagree with you on that one, I agree they also need to be added to semistate. For the same "excuse" "reason" "argument" that they are eneded at sectional and at semi state, the same goes for regional...simply put.

Im not trying to say that the current format gets the 4 best from Regional to Semi State and there are occasions when a Semi State Level kid loses first round of Regional.  I am simply saying that the draw is not random since only 2 sectionals feed into 1 regional.  Your draw is based on how you performed in the Sectional not based on a random draw.  At the Semi State, who you draw is based on the same 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 but since 4 regionals feed into 1 semi state there randomness factor. 

There is way more justification for wrestlebacks at Semi State then Regionals.

In Theory...

Sectionals is seeded with wrestlebacks so the top 4 should advance based on proven ability (seeding) and with actual ability (actual placement).

Regionals is 2 Sectionals coming together with a 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 model.  This is basically seeding.  So the top 4 should advance based on proven ability (sectional results) and actual ability (actual placement).

Semi State is 4 regionals coming togthere where you need to win 2 matches to advance.  Since 4 regionals come together the random draw becomes a factor.  At the Regional it is not random.  Before the Sectional you pretty much know what you need to do to avoid a certain wrestler.  How many times is it better to be 3rd at Sectional then the 2nd or even 1st??  But at Semi State it happens all the time where a kid who finished worse at the Regional qualifies for State because he got a good draw.  So the top 4 often advance based off luck (random draw) and actual ability (actual placement).

Semi State is where you need to focus your energy on Wrestlebacks not Regional.

Nate beat Jake during Jake's junior year.  Jake's senior year he went undeafeted and I am pretty sure he didnt give up any offensive points. 

Pretty sure Jake O'brien was beat by Nate Moore at the Capital City Classic, County, and Conference his senior season.  He gave up offensive points that year (not sure about his soph and junior years).

Nate beat Jake during Jake's junior year.  Jake's senior year he went undeafeted and I am pretty sure he didnt give up any offensive points.

The purpose of the weight management is to reduce health risks associated with cutting weight but we all know that cutting weight is apart of wrestling and is going to happen so putting in rules and guidelines that can be followed and makes sense is hard to do. 

The scenerio of weighing in at 145 then cutting to 132 just because the weight management system says you can doesnt make it safe but neither does weighing in at 132 then gaining 9-10 lbs just to cut back to 132 the next weigh in.  We all know this happens all the time. 

A lot of people critize the new weight classes because it eliminated a middle weight but I think it helps encourage kids to put on healthy weight vs cut weight which is a good thing.  Kids like LeCount, Stevenson, Hughes all had pretty big jumps in weight from last year.  I can only hope it shows kids you can have success without cutting weight.

This would basically cause very match to be won with one TD.

 

Takedown >>> Stall ride >>> choose down >>> stall on bottom for the win or get kicked loose and roller skate for the 3-0 win or stall then give up late TD for 3-2 win. Fans would hate this for at least one reason; refs would inevitably throw some otherwise whack stall calls in the second to give the guy trailing a chance to tie with a TD. This already happens with the current match format. If we changed to 3-2, you'd be manufacturing that situation in every tight match.

Lets face it... it will never be changed to 3min/2min but what you described itsnt any different than how it is now if no stalling is called.  If a kid gets a takedown and rides a kid out in the first period then there is a really good chance that the final score will be 3-1 with the kid who is losing going hard for a takedown in the last 30-45 seconds. 

I think the 3min/2min is an intersting concept because it could really reward the wrestler who scores first.  Stalling is whole other issue.

Two periods. A 3 min first and 2 min second.

I like this... First points scored in 1st period gets choice of position to start the 2nd period (no points score = flip the disk).  It could cause wrestlers to pick up the pace early in the match to secure choice in the 2nd or not want their fate decided by the flip of the disk.  It would also take away those 1-1 matches were each kid just gets an escape.