ENoblewrestling

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/high-schools/Grappling-with-growth-11266579

We placed 1st, 2nd, and 5th in the first three years of the team state. I am not really worried about our team getting in, we will be fine. This past season we debated accepting the invite because we knew we would be down, at the end of the day the alternate was a team that we beat fairly handily the year before so we accepted. If you think we want to get in and get beat down like we did this year you are totally wrong. We may be down for a few years, we will be up again someday, so will all of those teams you mentioned, you act as though teams that are down should just write themselves off and quit working to get better. In your view whats the point of counting teams out of the top 20? They don't have a chance anyhow? We should actually take the top 36 teams by genius rankings and divide them up, that would be more competitive. There are several reasons that I voted how I did, none of those reasons have anything to do with how it would effect our team getting into team state. 1. I have told you that I believe in an all in format. I want this event to help all of the teams in Indiana. I don't see how telling the smaller schools that your so bad, you don't count will help them at all. All-in also seems like the most fair way to do it in my opinion. 2. I feel that changing the classes every year based on the number of teams is confusing and takes away from the event. Its much "cleaner" if you have your classes for two year periods, and then re-class with the new enrollment numbers every two years. 3. If we want to define schools as being "small, medium, and large, then we would be better off classing by saying schools under 550 are small, 550-1250 are medium, 1250 + are large. That in my opinion would make much more sense than counting up the teams each year and recreating the classes. 4. Some of the teams that were effected were already competitive in the class above. Southmont for example was a top 4 team in class 2A, now they go to to 1A and of course are one of the top teams. As they come down that means that another, smaller team will be left out. Who gains more in this situation? Southmont, or the smaller team that may get into team state for the first time? To me that is a debatable question. 5. 1A was the class that had the most turnover over the years, I feel that this is a good thing, the more teams we get involved the better. By making 1A more difficult you are also making it more difficult for those smaller teams to get in. Whats better for the sport, having a group of 4-5 teams that dominate a class, which is what could happen, or having multiple teams via for a spot? So there is my thought process behind why I voted the way that I did. With all of that being said, I still see and understand your points. There are some good things that would come and did come from cutting teams from the process. You had a much tougher class 1A, the tournament had added excitement, it may push 1A schools to get better, etc, etc, etc. I am just not sure that is what is best for the overall aspect of the event, and still don't know. It added somethings, took away some others. If we voted again today, I would think the process through and see what I felt was best for the most teams again.

I agree a classed all in team tournament would be awesome. A couple of things to consider that would be major hurdles- 1. Does any other "individual" sport have anything like this? I don't believe that they do, the IHSAA from what I have been told likes to treat the individual and team sports on sort of the same page. Maybe we could find another sport with similar circumstances and go in with them? I don't know enough about the other individual sports to answer that. 2. Scheduling- I have seen a few versions of this purposed tournament that could be ran in a week or two, if we could find a version that could be ran and finished in a week, it seems like that could be doable. 3. The cost- I am not sure about the in's and out's of this one, but the IHSAA pays for gas mileage for their tournament events, or something along those lines. The more IHSAA tournament teams that compete the more they would have to pay, so I assume we would have to prove that this would be very profitable. Good discussion, it would be awesome if we could get this done at some point,

I don't know what to tell you. If I coached at the biggest school in the state I would have voted the same way.

Come on man... LOL . I love that because I believe that the team state should be an all in tournament, you feel that I have some sort of nefarious plan to water down class 1A. You act like I alone made the decision to not set the cap at 7, and that I am the only person in the state who sees the merit in having an all in format for the tournament. It was a group decision, and obviously I wasn't the only one who felt that way. I don't get how you can think that because I don't agree with you on this that I am somehow out to not do what is best for Indiana Wrestling. I voted for what I felt was honestly the best for the team state. That doesn't mean that I don't see a lot of merit in what you are purposing, but at the end of the day I voted for what I felt was the best compromise given the choice that we had. Honestly do you really see no merit in having an all in format? Do you feel that anyone who feels that way only wants to waterdown the lower divisions?

As a guy who voted for the three number I can tell you that it felt like a compromise in someways. There were a number of coaches who wanted all in, there were a number who wanted 7 or more. Through the process it came to light that the IHSAA only counts the score for teams with three or more kids, so that seemed like a good compromise for me, that is why I voted the way that I did. You make this seem as though it is a black and white issue, as with most topics on this board (and in life really) it is more grey. What is the goal of the event? To me, in classing the tournament we are creating an event where all of our teams have the opportunity to qualify, and be rewarded for their hard work. It doesn't matter how big you are, or the tradition of your school, everyone has the chance. That is why I feel that an all in tournament is the correct way to go. If the goal is to set up an event that showcases who is best out of schools that we feel should be considered "small", "medium" and "large" then I dont think that creating the classes in the way that we do makes sense anyhow. If that is the case then we should simply say 1A is schools under X number of kids, 2A is X to X, and 3A is above X. Also either way you do it someone is getting hurt. All in, hurts those tough teams like Southmont, and Delphi, etc who would be invited if they were 1a. Changing it to 7 hurts teams that are on the boarder the other way. I don't see why one group is more deserving than the other. I get that adding Delphi, and Southmont made for a stronger event, but it also took away opportunity for other teams. We could argue about who "deserves" to be there, but as long as we count classes the way we do there will always be a team that gets in, or left out based on just a couple of kids.

We wrestled Central Noble when they only had they only had 3-5, they made the team state in the past, and looked to be in contention this season. I have been told Knightstown used to have about 7 kids. Tecumseh doesn't strike me as a team that traditionally had a ton of kids. Look at Pioneer, they have had teams that have been very good, and are down a bit now. Churubusco used to have teams with only 8-10 kids, and they were competitive. Numbers and teams change, a team with 6-7 strong returners could sell team state as a way to grow their programs.

He was a regional qualifier as a freshman so will be able to get injury points. That is a good idea. Ill email Ginder.

Just a heads up for the data manager for the Carroll Sectional and Regional. J.T. Kilgore from Busco is a junior. He is listed a senior on the brackets on track, just wanted to make sure he was counted. Thanks

Kilgore is a junior, he is listed as a senior. Not a complaint, just a heads up.

So they have about 3.08 ff per school, while we only have 2.83?

They grow 'em big here in 'Busco, We can never find more than 1 or 2 of those little guys. Coach Dock's weight program is too good to, all of our 106/113 lbs kids are about 160 by the time they graduate haha.

What are some possible solutions that could help us to have less forfeits? We seem to do a real nice job pointing out problems, but don’t do as well with finding solutions. Here are a few possible ways that I see that could help with forfeits. 1. Combine 106/ 113 into something like 110. Then add in another middle weight. That alone would solve some of the forfeit problems. 2. Create/ push more groups like Beat the Streets. By the looks of the forfeits there seems to be a problem getting wrestlers out in inner city schools, these programs seem like a great way to introduce wrestling into these communities. I have a friend that coach’s baseball, and works with R.B.I and that program seems to be doing some good. 3. Change the attitude about wrestling being an “individual sport”. If the importance of the team is pushed more, then kids will work to get other kids out to help the team get better. 4. Work the hallways. There are very few kids at Churubusco Jr. Sr. High School that haven’t been told why they need to wrestle. We go after them all. We refuse to have forfeits too. Our 106, 113, and 120 had never wrestled at all before this year. They struggled a lot, but I am pretty sure all will come out again next year, and by the time they are seniors hopefully they improve to the point where they are pretty competitive. 5. Change the culture with wrestling around your school. This is difficult but can be done. I was lucky enough to walk into a situation where we had a lot of talent, but not a ton of numbers, we had a pretty good wrestling culture to begin with though, and just tried to grow the team around that. At team state I had a coach from Hagerstown comment about how Knightstown used to have like 6 kids, now they are at team state. I remember when Central Noble had 3 kids in a dual against us, now they are a really solid 1A team. Brownsburg has totally changed the culture there as well, again this is a really hard thing to do, but can be done. 6. Have more “friendship duals” like the Adams, Wells county teams have. I am sure there are similar events all over the state, but these seem like a good way to get more kids involved. I have a lot of trouble getting the youth parents to spend the $15 for a weekend event, which they may get 2 matches at. The friendship duals seem like a good way to get more kids involved at the youth level. 7. Change the Uniform- I have a ton of kids that say they would wrestle if it wasn’t for the uniform. I think that singlet are cool, but it may be time to modernize the uniform, that may add a few kids. 8. Provide more opportunity for JV tourneys- more matches, more importance, the more kids will wrestle. There are a lot of ways to do this, I think some a lot of the changes that would help would come from changing our weigh-in points system. That would have to come from the state. Now a few things that I think hurt wrestling that I don’t know how to address. 1. Sport Specialization- This is fascinating to me, because at small schools our kids are generally 2-3 sport athletes. Wrestling is the 2nd or even 3rd most important sport for a lot of our kids. There are still a number of athletes who just focus on one sport. This annoys me to no end. I think that would actually be a bigger problem/ annoyance at small schools. 2. It’s hard/ weight cutting- I’m not sure there is much you can do with these too. As an athlete I always loved wrestling, but disliked what I felt was the monotony of practice. As a coach I try to mix it up as much as I can to avoid some of these difficulties. 3. Wrestling all day on Saturdays- this is a complaint I get a lot. Not sure how to address it beyond changing out points system. I also think that less 6 ways more quads would be something that could help this situation. My kids for the most part enjoy rounds 1-3 on Saturday, tolerate round 4, and can stand round 5. So if anyone is planning a quad next year let us know.

220 at Carrol Maybe not the most big names, but a lot of solid wrestlers. Might not be the most top heavy, but it might be the deepest. It has 8 maybe 9 wrestlers that I would say are "quality" if there was a way to quantify that. The top 7 by win percentage go: 31-1 33-3 29-4 22-7 23-10 24-11 25-12 The 8-9 are: 10-6 16-14 This group has the SAC Champ (regional qualifier 2 years ago), the NECC 220 Champ (regional last year), NECC 285 Champ (also a state qualifier last year). There is at least one other former regional qualifier in the group. The 6 seed has defeated the past state qualifier this year. The group as a whole has a lot of pretty even matches, should be a pretty interesting day for this weight. Lots of solid evenly matched kids, lots of solid guys will be heading home.

What about Whitner from Northside? 220 or 195?

http://deadspin.com/a-lesson-in-sportsmanship-1753745041 A good reminder about sportsmanship haha. Remind your kids that if they loose their cool this weekend it could cost them the state tournament series.

Isn't Whitner 220?

Well you learn something new everyday. Thanks for letting me know. What conference are they in? Who else is in their conference?

I can't recall this topic ever coming up over the last few years. What is the best wrestling conference in the state? I just saw the Duneland results and that looks like a pretty solid conference. I assume the MIC will get many votes with PM, LN, Carmel, CG, Warren among others.

Yes we wrestled Garrett twice. Yes they smoked us both times.

Did Baumgartner and Gray wrestle?

Thanks, I just asked. Its JV for both.

I just copied and pasted from the meet info sheet. I assumed it was the varsity for both East Noble and Huntington North, though I am not sure. I know that Carroll is their JV for sure.

Several tournaments this weekend. Anyone know who all is at- Woodlan Garrett Concordia Goshen Any other events taking place? Any predictions for these meets? Woodlan Invite- Antwerp, Blackford, Bluffton, Bishop Luers, Carroll, Churubusco, East Noble, Edgerton, Logansport, Fremont, Huntington North, Tinora, Woodlan