Sectional Numbers Question

[SteveThePirate]

I was looking at the numbers of wrestlers entered in the previous seasons sectionals and comparing sectional sizes.. If you go based on last years team numbers for this years sectionals, you'll see that the Tech sectional will have approximately 72 wrestlers entered and the Southport sectional will have approximately 120 wrestlers entered. Like I said, this isn't exact, but going off team sizes last year for the Sectionals this year.. So more or less, around 14 or so wrestlers will not advance to regionals from the Tech sectional and around half of the wrestlers won't advance to regionals from the Southport sectional. Just going off the numbers, you have a greater chance of advancing through the state tournament if you go through the Tech sectional versus going through the Southport sectional. Shouldn't the votes on these changes be public record? If so, where can they be found? And do they state their reasoning's for changing the sectionals and what teams go where? Seems a bit lopsided where there are 48 more wrestlers (give or take) in one sectional versus another.

[ghughes1974]

Here's the data you're looking for.  I came up with 74 in tech but did that by roster and not by bracket, so perhaps 2 of the 74 ended up forfeiting...not sure.

 

 

The 2023-24 wrestling sectional realignment swapped 4 teams from the former Arsenal Tech sectional (Mount Vernon Fortville, North Central, Lawrence North and Lawrence Central) with 4 teams from the former Southport sectional (Indianapolis George Washington, Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter, Indianapolis Crispus Attickus, Providence Crystol Rey).  In evaluating these changes, it appears they may have been made in error or without critical information. 

 

The participation rate is polar opposite among the group of schools moved to Arsenal Tech vs those moved to Southport.  If we put last year’s teams into the new Arsenal Tech sectional, there are 74 total wrestlers in the sectionals.  This creates a scenario where:

·       4 weight classes would have 4 or less wrestlers.  This means 16 of the 56 advancing wrestlers, 29%, would advance to regionals without having to wrestle a single match. 

·       1 of those 16 spots would be a forfeit that advances instead of a wrestler.   

·       As many as 17 additional wrestlers, another 30%, only have to wrestle one match to advance.  ~60% of wrestlers either don’t have to wrestle or only wrestle once to advance. 

·       If a forfeit moves on to Regional, a wrestler will qualify to semi state without having to wrestle at regionals.  Also, if there are weight classes with 4, there are no alternates should a wrestler drop out.

 

If we do the same thing with the Southport sectional:

·       There are now 120 wrestlers in this section.  Almost double Arsenal Tech.

·       80 of the 112 (71%) regional qualifiers from last year’s two sectionals are now in Southport.  56 wrestlers advance to regionals, so 24 of 80 of last year’s regional qualifiers would be eliminated at the Southport sectional.  24 more skilled wrestlers would lose a week of their season and the experience/accomplishment of advancing to and competing at regionals. 

 

Regional and semi state implications look negative. 

·       For example, if we look at last year’s 220 weight class at the New Castle Semi State, 6 out of 8 “blood round” wrestlers from last year would now be in the same regional.  This means that 2 wrestlers who completed in the “blood round” (one round away from making it to state) would have been eliminated at the regional level.    

 

We checked drivetime and the change in these sectionals creates longer drivetime for schools overall, with significant greater milage for schools moved to the new Southport sectional without saving the schools moved to Arsenal Tech significant mileage.  The four schools added to Southport will literally drive by Arsenal Tech on their way to Southport. 

 

Our coaches, wrestlers and parents are uniformly unhappy and frustrated by these changes as they can’t see how they are good for our student athletes or Indiana wrestling.  

 

 

APPENDIX

 

New Arsenal Tech Participants Per Bracket using 2022/23 Participants 

	Providence Cristo Rey*	Indpls George * Washington	Indpls * Crispus Attucks	Indpls Cardinal Ritter *	Brebeuf Jesuit Prep	Indpls Arsenal Technical	Indiana School for the Deaf	Indiana School for the Blind	Indpls Bishop Chatard	Indpls Cathedral	Total in Bracket
106	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	1	1	3
113	0	0	0	0	1	1	1	0	1	1	5
120	1	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	1	1	5
126	1	0	0	0	1	1	1	0	1	1	6
132	1	0	0	0	1	1	1	0	1	1	6
138	1	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	1	6
145	1	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	1	5
152	0	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	1	1	4
160	0	1	1	0	1	1	1	0	1	1	7
170	1	1	0	0	1	1	1	0	1	1	7
182	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	1	1	4
195	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	1	1	5
220	1	1	0	0	1	1	1	0	1	1	7
285	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	0	1	1	4
Total Wrestlers	9	5	1	0	10	11	10	0	14	14	74

 

Bracket Size Notes

·       4 wrestlers in each bracket advance to regionals.

·       106 is a 3 man bracket – all wrestlers advance to regionals without having to wrestling a match and 1 forfeit advances.  There are two total matches at sectionals in a 3 man bracket. 

·       152, 182 and 285 are all four man brackets – all wrestlers advance (even if they don’t wrestle).  There are four total matches per bracket at sectionals in a 4 man bracket

·       113, 120, 145 and 195 are 5 man brackets – The winner of the match between the 2 and 3 seed advances with only one match.  Assuming the 1 seed beats the winner of the two lowest seeded wrestlers, that wrestler also advances with only 1 match. There are six total matches per bracket in a 5 man sectional bracket.  

·       126, 132 and 138 are 6 man brackets – If the top two seeded wrestlers win their first match against lower seeded wrestlers, they also advance with only 1 match.  

 

 

2022-23 Teams Placed in the New Sectionals – Net Change

Result of the Change	Participant Change	Total Participants	Regional Qualifier Change	Total Regional Qualifiers	Semi State Change
New Southport	+37	120	+28	80	+12
New Arsenal Tech	-37	74	+4	32	+1
Delta		46	24	48	11

 

 

 

2022-23 Teams Participants, Regional and Semi State Qualifiers

New Southport Sectional	2022-23 Participants	2022-23 Regional Qualifiers	2022-23 Semi State Qualifiers
Beech Grove	14	8	2
Perry Meridian	14	14	9
Roncalli	14	14	8
Southport	14	12	3
Christel House	9	3	0
Victory College Prep	3	1	0
Lawrence Central*	13	3	1
Lawrence North*	12	8	3
Mt Vernon (Fortville) *	13	8	7
North Central*	14	9	1
Total	120	80	34

 

New Arsenal Tech Sectional	2022-23 Participants	2022-23 Regional Qualifiers	2022-23 Semi State Qualifiers
Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory	10	3	1
Indpls Arsenal Technical	11	3	1
Indiana School for the Deaf	10	1	0
Indiana School for the Blind	0	0	0
Indpls Bishop Chatard	14	8	5
Indpls Cathedral	14	13	12
Indpls Cardinal Ritter*	0	0	0
Indpls Crispus Attucks*	1	0	0
Indpls George Washington*	5	1	0
Providence Cristo Rey*	9	3	1
Total	74	32	20

 

* Team newly added to the sectional

 

 

[HawkinIndy]

More proof as to why someone other than Robert Faulkens should be overseeing our sport. The numbers don’t lie, but he’ll deny that those are the actual numbers. It should only take one year for him to see that and send at least two of those teams back to their original sectional.

[TripleB]

I've heard a rumor the Indianapolis Star is involved and possibly doing a story about this?

 

[MattM]

3 hours ago, TripleB said:

I've heard a rumor the Indianapolis Star is involved and possibly doing a story about this?

 

While Doyle has been in love with chasing any IHSAA related controversy lately, I’m not sure this matter would have the “teeth” for a worthy hit piece on them. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by MattM

[ghughes1974]

Where do you go for help when IHSAA won't listen and appears to answer to no one?

 

The data in the post above was sent to the IHSAA by the coaches association.  Letter was supported and crafted by coaches of all 19 teams in the impacted regional.  The coaches association shared the letter and asked three specific questions and assistant commissioner Faulken's responses as reported by the coaches association were:

1. Can the sectional be changed back?  Answer: No
2. Who made the changes to the sectionals?  Answer: the sectional realignment committee
3. How does it work/why were these changes made?  Answer: the sectionals were updated based on participation rate

I've talked to folks on the sectional realignment committee and what they described suggests the changes were made by assistant commissioner Faulkens.  The data shows that the statement about participation rate is inaccurate.