RASSLER4LIFE

Craft may be going 126, he was at county.

We wrestle at the Spartan, wrestle several 3A schools. We plan to strengthen our schedule but right now we have 8-9 freshman in our line up so you also need to balance it out so they don't get too discouraged. Build them up a little too. We work hard in the off season, attend RTC's, camps, and wrestle even thru the summer. Not all of our kids are that committed but the opportunities are there if you take advantage of them.

Sorry misunderstood your question. They definitely face better competition than we do. Every week they are battling state caliber kids where we only see that competition a couple times per season. We as a program are not there yet as a whole.

Well, the gentleman who started the thread has quite a wrestling resume. State Champ, college wrestler, coached state placers, parent of state caliber wrestler. I coached along side this guy, have been involved in big school feeder programs, Jr. high coach, high school assistant & father of a 3x sq. so we know what it takes.

Some are coaches, assistant coaches and parents.

This is a football statistic, explain why these states are so talent rich in football compared to Indiana or the bulk of the nation for that matter. School size? Class sports? Culture? Better Coaching? Deeper talent pool? I don't know why but statistically they are head and shoulders above most states. I think it's kinda the culture. This was compiled from 2010-2014. "This isn’t news. California, Texas and Florida have been and will always be the most fertile recruiting states in the country. Of the 1,000 players studied, 404 of them hail from one of these three states. Of the 162 five-star signees during the span, 71 come from either The Sunshine, Lone Star or Golden States. So a staggering 40.4 percent of Top-200 talents come from these three states and 43.8 percent of five-star recruits come from The Big Three. The SEC can claim both Texas and Florida as “footprint” states and is this is why many are so bullish on Kevin Sumlin and Texas A&M as a sleeping giant. Florida tops all states with 156 top-200 prospects and 31 five-star talents over the last five cycles. Texas is second in both categories with 132 and 24 respectively. Georgia has delivered no less than 13 top-200 prospects and at least two five-stars in each of the last five classes. In all, Georgia ranks fourth in the nation with 78 top-200 players over the last five — well ahead of Ohio, which ranks fifth with 47 signees. The 13 five-star prospects to come from The Peach State are just three behind the state of California (16) despite having a significantly smaller population base - See more at: http://athlonsports.com/college-football/state-recruiting" Anybody care to take a stab at how this could correlate with Indiana and wrestling?

I think the Spartan Classic is slated for the 29th and 30th.

FormerHornet: all of your points are well thought out and you response seems valid as well. I would agree that population alone does not dictate success. Isn't Texas relatively new on the wrestling scene? I also think culture and the mentality of your state's population play a huge roll in their success. The top states take pride in their wrestling prowess. Where as Indiana has always been known for its basketball and Florida and Texas for it's football. Changing our state's culture would be a daunting task. I do agree that athletes that have wrestled collegiately and have returned back to Indiana have given our sport a very big boost in the quality of our wresting. Over the course of the last few years I think Indiana's best have probably never been better and it shows on how we perform at national level events. I thank you for your input and your extended knowledge but I personally like the one class state champ. Maybe a new topic about class wrestling where actual coaches from all corners of our state could weigh in on their preference of the system.

My son had a good SAT score, had around a 3.4 GPA, was national honor society and was a 3x state qualifier and BSU was substantially cheaper for us. It does seem as though state ran universities tuition has gone up more drastically versus private institutions over the last 10 years. That is the time frame he was pursuing a degree.

Never said that the sport wasn't struggling for participants, especially at the small schools. I get that. I just said I wanted to be able to compete against everybody at individual state. If you don't think I want forty kids in my room, you are sadly mistaken. We are working very hard from the ground up to build up the program. We want the same mindset the community has for football in our wrestling program. We encourage kids to try it out for a couple of weeks and don't look down on them if they don't like it. I have been involved in large school programs as well and still struggled to get and keep kids interested in wrestling. The large school, I assisted with has always had a deep tradition in wrestling. I know Brownsburg is a large school but I like what they are doing to promote the sport. Getting the fan base to grow from parents to the entire community is huge. I applaud them! I also want that opportunity to compete against them at individual state. I don't know the answers but I don't think classing the individual is the answer. Am I wrong? Maybe, maybe not. We must find ways to promote our great sport but even on a national basis it's not. We need sponsors to get our sport on ESPN more than just the NCAA's. Even the BTN network will show a rerun versus showing live wrestling at times. It's not just our state but a world wide problem if they were going to take wrestling out of the Olympics.

Ok, my kid went there for a year, so I think I know. They can get it down to the full cost of a year for a state ran institution. The same financial help you get at Wabash you can get at the state institutions. In turn Wabash was around $17K and by going to Ball State it was down to about less than $10K. Take that times four years and there is a substantial amount saved.

How can you state that cost isn't a factor. That it's all recruiting. To me spending $35k+ a year to go to a school like Wabash to wrestle versus half of that to go to Ball State is a huge factor. Most wrestling families are middle class families and money is always an issue, if they can get a quality education for less $'s that could sway a kid to hang up his shoes. On top of that, there is a lot that goes into college recruiting, not just showing up at semi-state or state to 'judge' the talent. I like the class format for team just not as an individual, that being said you missed your calling. A guy that has all the answers like you should move on to a higher calling like a political office for the greater good of all of us.

Please explain how class will help our depth. Some of the states like Illinois, Pennsylvania or Ohio have a population that is twice ours. So therefore maybe that's the reason they have classes in wrestling or could be why they have more depth of talent. Kind of like it should be easier for you to find 14 dedicated wrestlers with 2200 students versus say a school with 500 students. I guess the law of averages takes over. So a state placer in Ohio or Penn. would be desired over some of our state placers because their talent pool is deeper. Doesn't mean that one of our placers couldn't defeat one of their state champs but since their state is bigger we shouldn't be given a chance to compete in the same national tournaments with them then. Getting more in state programs started like Indiana Tech and the new one at Ancilla is a start of getting our kids into college programs. Division 3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships: i.e. Manchester & Wabash. Cost could become a factor where a kid may choose Ball State over Wabash so they end up hanging up their shoes instead of competing at college level. Common sense, says I wouldn't ask my kids a question that requires critical thinking. So I wouldn't ask them such stupid questions and think I would get a logical answer. Not all choices we make for kids are the right ones, as a parent you will figure that out someday. I want my kid to compete against any and all, not just the "small school" or the "big class". Wrestling is different than many sports. It pays to be athletic but I have seen many wrestlers that weren't exceptional athletes fair as well as anybody. I went to a small school, was a semi-state qualifier and wouldn't have wanted it any other way than to compete against all comers come the state tournament. I guess I have lots of confidence in myself, my wrestlers and their ability to compete at a high level. There is more satisfaction in beating the doubter and naysayers as well!

i agree, Indiana wrestling is better than it ever has been, ever! That's proven by the number of top quality wrestlers we have in the national rankings and wrestling in division 1 wrestling programs. So how is class sports going to improve that! I don't believe that it can or will. It goes back to getting coaches that have college experience back in our state sharing their knowledge, starting many wrestling clubs where top quality kids from many different schools seek out the best partners, and of course hardwork and dedication. I went to school in the 80's and every county school around carried close to a full roster. Oh by the way we were still in one class then. There are many things that could be considered for our sport to be 'dying'. Maybe it's being tied up every Saturday from before sunup to sunset every week, having to turn in on a Friday night at a decent time, the weight management or maybe kids find other things that don't require the hard-work and dedication. Our team has very many dedicated kids that do work hard. Some because we push them and some do it without our urging because they are self motivated. We run a pretty tough practice and don't see many teams that are any better conditioned than ours. Our kids aren't afraid to battle. I asked 2 tonight if they would be satisfied to wrestle in a 2 class system or stay with the one class system we have now to compete against the big schools and neither hesitated to say they wanted to be tested in a one class system. As far as kids not working hard, I was referring to kids that won't come out or some that come out and quit after one week because it is so hard! You should be able to find 14 kids that are dedicated to wrestling. We have a roster of roughly 20 kids. All but a couple play multiple sports. Only 1 does nothing but wrestle. How many kids go to Carroll? Your have more in one grade than we do in the top 4 so surely you can find enough to fill your roster like most large schools. If you think society isn't softer you're sadly mistaken and I never said that all kids won't work hard. I also be named a few large schools that were having trouble fielding full rosters because you said ""Many" is a rough word when you can't back it up with stats and facts." Like I said we will have to agree to disagree.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree. The lack of an opportunity to wrestle at state is not killing wrestling. The hard work and amount of effort that goes into becoming a state quality wrestler might be. Kids are different today and that's a fact. Many would rather have it handed to them than to get any satisfaction from the effort it takes to get there. You want numbers, check Ben Davis wrestling numbers, how about Southport and Decatuer Central are a few big schools that I have seen this year that aren't carrying full rosters. It's easy to see in your results page with the large amount of forfeits from these schools. The inner city Indianapolis schools have trouble fielding full teams. Attendance at basketball has dropped for years, to say it's thriving, I would say is a stretch.

I will always want to compete in a one class system. If you look at basketball for example: I have seen a rather down turn in attendance since they went to classes but then again I live near New Castle and I was around in the hay days when we filled their gymnasium with 9500 people during the sectionals. They are lucky to have a quarter of that now. Many large schools are finding it difficult to field full teams. Wrestling is hard, it's a grind and kids have so many outside distractions so I don't think classing wrestling is gonna see a huge explosion in numbers. Small schools only have so many athletes and many that might turn to wrestling at a big school are often basketball players at these schools. I think expanding to 32 might get a few more thru to state but I don't think that's the answer either. Why change a good thing if it's working. We are one of 2 states that have one state champion and I think that's pretty awesome. Crowning state champs aren't the best thing about wrestling anyways, it's the life skills we want the kids to pick up. You know dedication, hardwork, responsibility, the drive to succeed and being accountable. Outwork your competition is what we preach. Get to a premium club, compete in the off season, do what it takes to make you successful.

I like being the underdog and over achieving, it creates a challenge which I am always up for. I remember an undefeated state champ from Turkey Run, 2 state champs from Union County and 1 from Winchester, last 3 all in the same year. So I know it can be done. Once again, we have confidence in several of our guys and their ability to compete against the best. I would never tell them that they aren't on a level playing field.

@Y2, why are you so worried about classing individual wrestling? For a big school you sure seem worried about it, I don't see many small school coaches pushing for it. Why because to be the best you have to beat the best and like I said that's what my guys want. To compete against the best.

Individual state should not be classed, but I do like the idea of team being a class format. A school the size of say Carmel who has roughly 2400 boys in the top four grades definitely has better odds to put 14 solid wrestlers on the mat versus many 1A schools being able to do the same. That being said a small school can produce 2-3 really solid kids that can compete at a high level on an individual basis. Those boys want the opportunity to compete against all comers at least I know mine do!!

I am sure cost would be a factor but what about the convention center downtown Indy.

Yea and I believe Campbell from New Castle had an appendicitis prior to the semi-state that year as well.

The Connersville AD said that he will likely set up a criteria as the class 1A was a tie as well with Shenandoh and Benton Central.