maligned

1 hour ago, The Genius said:

I would say Yazdani has the superior resume overall but they both have excellent wins

Yes, for sure. They're equal in Olympic and World golds--but then Yazdani has 5 additional medals compared to only 1 for Taylor. Plus, Yazdani took worldwide Golds at 2 different weights. (I think, too, that if there had been an in-between Olympic weight class like 79 or 80kg, Yazdani might be undefeated since 2016. I think Taylor's body naturally fit 86kg better than Yazdani; but if both would have stayed down 6 or 7kg all these years, it would have been a better fit for Yazdani than Taylor.)

But the "who was better" argument is obviously going to come down to what you prefer: overall resume vs. apex quality level. For a 7-year period from the U.S. trials in 2017 to the U.S. trials in 2024--Taylor was 70-1 across all freestyle matches in a traditionally very crowded weight class. As with all American wrestlers, he was not originally a freestyle wrestler--but there is a strong argument that once he fully adapted to the style and the 86kg weight class, he was at a level attained by only a few freestyle wrestlers historically. And part of that argument, obviously, is that he handed an all-time legend like Yazdani himself 5 of his 8 career losses (4 during that 7-year period, of course).

18 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Some fun trivia:

 

Tsabalov is the only wrestler to have wins over both Hassan Yazdani and David Taylor (Tsabalov is 1-2 against Yazdani and 1-0 against DT).

 

Yazdani has wins over every wrestler he has faced at 74kg and 86kg. The only guy he wrestled and hasn't won against is Gazimagomedov (Yazdani lost to him 3-1 in 2015 worlds at 70kg in Yazdani's last match at 70kg, when he was only 19 years old).

 

Yazdani has lost to 4 wrestlers in his career (Gazimagomedov, Shabanau, Tsabalov, and Taylor) and DT has lost to 6 non-American wrestlers (11 total) (Tsargush, Tsabalov, Nurmagomed, Rochniak, Lasghari, and Yazdani) in his career.

Yazdani has definitely been more consistent across all weights in his career. Of course you can point to some of DT's losses in his own country as understandable (Burroughs, Dake, Cox); but Yazdani reached the top level at a much younger age, and Yazdani developed consistency at 86kg much more quickly than DT did. It's almost funny to read some of DT's results from 2015 and 2016.

2 hours ago, Thor said:

David Taylor was announced as the head coach of Oklahoma State late last night, I think his competition days are now over. 

@Thor and @The Genius, I'm actually seeing a lot of people on other boards insisting DT would wrestle the Olympics as his last tournament if Brooks can't go. It seems insane to think of in the middle of the transfer portal, needing to move across the country and probably selling a couple of local businesses. ...and probably leaving his training camp.

But people insist it would do so much for the notoriety of the Oklahoma State program that he'd do it.

They say, "John Smith wrestled in the Olympics while coaching. Cael Sanderson made a freestyle comeback while coaching. Why can't DT?"

I hear them, but in this day and age of 24/7/365 recruiting and training demands for D1 coaches--seems crazy. To be his best, he needs 6+ hours per day for training, eating, and recovery activities and 8-9 hours of sleep. He then uses 9-10 hours per day for a big-time D1 coaching job, plus family, business, moving, travel, media appearances, etc, with none of the downtime that a high-level athlete's mind needs in preparing for an elite event?  

Let me be the first to predict DT doesn't get gold if he is our rep.

3 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Have to imagine Dake will do something similar after Paris. Changing of the guard.

 

Any idea why no news about Gable returning to compete at 125kg? Odd that he returned to compete at Worlds last year, pulled out last minute, then we never heard from him again. 

I guess you saw Steveson had been re-signed to the WWE and had more appearances. But he wasn't successful at developing a following and he was just released from the WWE a few days ago--too late to cycle off of WWE special sauce, train, and compete at Olympic trials. No word on if he'll try to get signed with another professional wrestling show or possibly go an MMA route. 

39 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Damn. At least Americans can stop acting holier than thou and blaming PEDs every time they lose to an Iranian or Russian wrestler.

 

Seems weird to give DT the place if Brooks is suspended given DT went 0-2 in the trials. What about Valencia? He should probably wrestle DT to determine who gets the place if it comes to that, he was robbed against Brooks to begin with.

 

But Twitter talk is that the Brooks side is confident they will be able to compete. Presume Brooks passed all the tests since U23 worlds last year. 

The substance Brooks tested positive for was adderall--the same stimulant prescribed for ADHD that Simone Biles was taking that became a news story. Both of them have prescriptions, but Brooks didn't file for a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE). If he has ADHD, a stimulant like that doesn't interact with his brain in the same way to provide "enhanced" focus and performance like it does for a non-ADHD brain. That's why they allow a TUE. But it's admittedly very, very irresponsible, at best, not to apply for a TUE--and obviously is cheating if he doesn't have a verified ADHD diagnosis.

32 minutes ago, Disco said:

Purdue University, Indiana University minor league, developmental league for the big boys. 

That's taking it too far, but there are definitely tiers to this game. Big Ten lower feeds Big Ten upper. Other lesser programs feed the lower Big Ten some too. 

18 hours ago, MattM said:

To keep the female side of the sport progressing and growing the girls will need mat time.  In certain areas of the state there are going to be a limited number of girls at certain weight classes to compete against.  Similarly for certain teams there will be a limited number of coaching availability to travel to meets.  If those issue create a lack of mat time I feel  we may see a situation where some girls decide to quite, team sizes drop which further perpetuates the issue, and some schools decided it’s easier to just focus on the boys side of things.  

 

Due to those concerns I wouldn’t mind the IHSAA allowing female wrestlers at least have the option to also compete against boys at JV events for the next few years while still remaining eligible for the girls post season event.  Now I mention the boys JV not a slight toward the girls ability (as some have shown they can hang at the boys varsity level), but rather an opportunity for the IHSAA to allow female wrestlers to gain mat time without it creating some questions or confusion on how to handle boys varsity records relate to sectional criteria or impacting boys varsity dual results.  This seems like a reasonable compromise that i wouldn’t mind the IHSWCA perusing before we get to close to the season for the IHSAA to want to  listen this logic and then after year this year be to set in their ways to want to adjust later.  

 

 If numbers continue to grow and enough competition exists in a few years then I’d be fine splitting things permanently, but I’m not sure we are there yet if we want get these young ladies enough mat time to improve and feel that this grueling sport is worth continuing with.  

 

I get we should see some continues growth next season, but if you look at girls regionals this year a few things stand out:  The lack of entries at certain weights at some of the girls regional, the total matches some girls had a these regionals, and the idea that some girls wrestled over 1/3 of their matches against the same single opponent during the season. Then notice that at a regional level where some teams there would be over an hour away from each other during the season.  
 

I have no problem with the IHSAA deciding to take a chance a girls wrestling, but provide some opportunity where the female can gain mat experience while the sport is grow to a sustainable level in all weight classes and in all areas.   I’m just not sure we are there yet if a full split occurs and they don’t allow e the option for girls to at least pursue in season match the boys JV level. 

4 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The biggest potential issue I see is if the girls are limited with events like the boys. Currently there are 18 points allowed with a minimum 6 duals and a maximum of 6 tournaments(3 or more teams). Currently most teams don't have enough girls for a dual meet and the girls are better off going to "tournaments" in which there are 5+ teams there so everyone can get matches.

With the above questions: Anyone know if the IHSAA will consider adopting the 12-weight NFHS model (or even less..is that allowed?) for girls in the short-term to work toward getting lineups more full and creating more matches at events?

19 hours ago, The Genius said:

You mix up random matches from all sorts of years for no apparent reason ... No idea what your point was there. My point was DT is the only one who couldn't score on Brooks (in two matches) which suggests DT was off rather than Brooks was amazing. Brooks was very lucky to be gifted the win against Valencia too. 

Those aren't random matches. They're all the matches involving a matchup between Taylor, Yazdani, Brooks, Valencia, and Amine since 2022. I didn't leave any out from that time, so they're not random. I included Amine and I keep mentioning Amine because he's exactly the same level as Kurugliev (1-3, 3-2, 1-2 last two seasons) and because a guy like Valencia beats Amine just as badly as Yazdani. I wrote out the scores so we can take away bias and see that past scores would clearly predict not only a very tight match between Brooks and Yazdani--but also not 10-0 results very often between Yazdani and the other guys Brooks wrestled at US Trials.

Not believing the young, improving guy can beat a healthy Yazdani is like if I didn't believe Massoumi could give Steveson a very good match and possibly beat him--just because Massoumi is the new guy. The evidence is there and he looks fantastic. I think Steveson would beat him, but the results are there to say it would be a great match.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get so far into this topic. I love watching Yazdani. He is a great champion, and I mention my admiration of him to Iranians I meet any chance I get. If Brooks doesn't win, I hope it will be Yazdani in Paris. Peace, brother

7 hours ago, Bulldog89 said:

Hopefully they let the ones who started in the boys finish.  

Or at least give a year for adaptation where girls can compete for the boys' or girls' teams during the regular season as long as they meet scheduling rules.

19 hours ago, The Genius said:

you are extremely biased if you think those first two guys wouldn't get teched 10-0 by Yazdani in 3-4 minutes 90% of the time they wrestle.

In the sequence they happened:

Taylor over Valencia, 4-2 (when fresh...and 10-0 in match 2 an hour later)

Taylor over Yazdani, 7-1

Valencia over Amine, 6-0

Taylor over Brooks, 4-0 & 5-4

Yazdani over Amine, 7-2

Taylor over Yazdani by fall after leading 9-3

Brooks over Mirasola 11-5, Dieringer 8-4, Valencia 7-6

Brooks over Taylor 4-1, 3-1

Then Yazdani 10-0 in 3 or 4 minutes over the phenom Mirasola & Dieringer??

...and Kurugliev over Brooks??  Come on. Kurugliev has been a 1 or 2-pt match with Amine the last three times in 2 years, with Amine winning one.

I think you didn't watch the U.S. Trials matches. Dieringer has fully adjusted to 86kg, weight-wise now. He and the super dynamic young Mirasola would be clear favorites over Amine, for example. We know the American-born Amine very well in the U.S. No American would put their money on him over Brooks, Valencia, Dieringer, or Mirasola. Look at the scores above!! You're way over-valuing the imaginary separation between Taylor and Yazdani and the top guys that can't compete at worlds because of the 1-country limit.

If Yazdani is healthy, he deserves to be considered the Olympic favorite. Brooks is inexperienced, and I admit he could make a naive mistake and lose a match to someone other than Yazdani. But he has evolved into a monster that you're way undervaluing. If he's wrestling smart at the Olympics, Yazdani is the only one capable of beating him.

Too much negative feedback about non-destination super bowl locations and northern weather for it to come back to Indy. It maybe makes it north for a new stadium situation occasionally--but seems it will be rare.

One small devil's advocate counterpoint to the idea that a tech is now too easy:

Making techs and majors easier moves team scoring closer to representing actual difficulty of earning each type of win.

Pins have always been rightfully worth more team points than a tech. However, tech falls have always been much better indicators of the superior wrestler. Upsets by tech don't exist. Rematch victories by someone who previously got teched are very, very rare. However, pins can happen in a variety of circumstances and are not always earned by the season-long best wrestler. 

What we saw in college was that tech falls were way up, but that a rematch could be a good match despite the first match having been a tech. This was not the case before. 

Related...close duals will now have points more accurately assigned to the deserving team. Before, a team could have 3 dominant wins totalling only 9 or 10 team points, while their opponent had 3 close wins but also got 9 points. Now, those dominant wins can rightfully be 12 or 13 points compared to the 9 for the close wins.

On 4/24/2024 at 3:47 PM, Thor said:

Purdue is going to look nearly identical to this year's squad. Hopefully they can bring in some transfers to plug some holes. Right now, the only guy leaving the starting lineup is Marcos Polancos at 149. 

 

125 - Matt Ramos, once again should be an AA/possible national title threat. 

133 - Dustin Norris, it will be his third year in the starting lineup. Hopefully he's healthy, I think his a qualifier last year if not for shoulder issues

141 - Greyson Clark, national qualifier as a true freshman back in the lineup, should be improved

149 - Jayden Reynolds, probably Reynolds as the starter, wouldn't mind a portal pickup here

157 - Joey Blaze, had a bad tournament, but an very good season for a true freshman at a tough middle weight. Should be an AA threat the rest of his career. Hopefully his brother joins him

165 - Stoney Buell, national qualifier as a sophomore, should be better as an upperclassman

174 - Brody Baumann, national qualifier as a redshirt freshman back in the lineup, should be improved

184 - James Rowley, highly regarded recruit, hopefully shows a lot of improvement. Still young for an upperweight

197 - Ben Vanandia, really want a portal pickup here. Heard he's lazy and shows disinterest in wrestling and Purdue could use an upgrade. 

285 - Tristan Ruhlman, wouldn't mind a portal pickup here. I like Ruhlman, but he's not developing to the kind of guy you need manning heavyweight in the Big Ten. Maybe Hayden Copass can make a comeback, but I think he's medically retired from wrestling

 

Purdue could definitley use some portal help in spots. The problem is there's no one in the portal that would be a noticeable upgrade that Purdue could actually afford. And hopefully another year in the room gets these boys a lot better. Hopefully this young core works out. 

I really don't see Marcus Blaze heading to WL.

He barely remembered he did the Purdue visit when he's talking top schools (near the end):

5 hours ago, The Genius said:

 

Brooks beat Mirasola 11-5, Dieringer 8-4, Valencia 7-6 then DT 4-1 and 3-1

All 3 of those guys could also score points on Yazdani, but would lose. They are all very dynamic in moments.

Valencia obviously just beat Azarpira up at 92 (i know you say it was the weight cut, but conditioning is not Valencia's strength either). He also was ahead of Taylor almost the whole first match (but lost 4-2) at Final X in 2022 the last time he met Taylor. 

I don't think Brooks is as good as Taylor was 2 years ago, but he's very, very good, and he will be the biggest challenge Yazdani has to face in Paris.

On 4/21/2024 at 4:29 AM, kmrabr said:

What’s going on with Taylor, I’m not an expert in American wrestling so maybe Brooks is that good, but he seemed to have no penetration? Internationally can’t remember seeing him get that deep on a leg like that and get stuffed. Maybe Brooks has the heaviest hips ever seen at 86, his defence was amazing, but had a quick look at some of his other matches and didn’t seem like other wrestlers couldn’t finish on him…

 

And don’t wanna get armchair expert here but physically Taylor looked way softer than he’s looked last few worlds.

I agree Taylor didn't look as fit as in the past. His endurance looked fine,  but I agree he looked less chiseled. 

Brooks is legit, though. He's just raw at freestyle, so he can still be scored on more easily the way Taylor was domestically when he was younger. Also, getting scored on by a motivated Valencia doesn't mean much. Valencia scores on everyone in the world in the first minutes. 

I agree that Brooks is a more desirable opponent from Yazdani's perspective. The underhook game should work better for early scores and Brooks won't be the same threat to score from par terre. But Brooks is very big and has ultra-high conditioning and athleticism for the whole match. If Yazdani is up by less than 5 with 1:30 remaining, he will be in big danger.

The big tragedy is that Brooks doesn't have ranking points, so this match could be early in the tournament.

51 minutes ago, TysonNisley said:

Different Larkin, but Hockaday nevertheless had a great run. Beat the Penn State kid that upset Braeden Davis the round before. Also beat Cory Land who I believe has a medal at an age group World Championships and will contend for AA honors in D1 in the next couple of years.

Oh, good call. Brain fart. 61 K Larkin...not 65.

21 hours ago, The Professor Morgan said:

Can’t believe there’s been no chatter about this.  Hockaday going for 3rd in U20, Cressell had a great run, Lemley for 5th, Barkett for 5th.

 

u17 Greco Xavier Smith and Hartleroad placed

 

Quite a few u15 and futures placers

 

u17 are coming in strong with Bell and Shephard after texhing 2 seed Youngblut in quarters 

Hockaday looking insane. Kaleb Larkin beat Jesse Mendez when he won a Senior level freestyle tournament in November. He just teched 2-time AA Kolodzik and went to the wire with Yianni D at Olympic Trials. Hockaday falls to him, 8-7. Dude's becoming a bona fide beast

7 hours ago, Disco said:

Does Rini and or Logan  Frazier have the body to go up or down in weight? Seems something is in the plans here. 

Is Frazier headed to IU?

On 4/24/2024 at 2:38 PM, ReformedPoster said:

I have Parris as the GOAT even if he doesn't medal (which would be a huge upset if he doesn't come home with a medal).  

• 3x state champ, 1 loss in HS
• NCAA champ, Hodge winner
• Age group world champ
• Sr world medalist
• US Olympian

Sarah Hildebrant is the women's GOAT without a doubt.  But Parris is the overall GOAT at the moment.  And I do suspect that Jesse Mendez's final resume will place him above Parris when its all said and done.

He's not a huge medal favorite. He'll come in as the 4th best guy and capable of beating anyone--but if brackets work out with him on the same side as 2 of the Big 3, he has to get an upset to medal.

AMENDMENT: I just researched and saw that ranking points should be locked in with Mason and the Big 3 as the 4 seeds. That will mean he can medal without beating one of them and that he's a clear medal favorite. I disagree that a loss would be a "huge" upset because the rise of new, young monsters, along with upsets by savvy vets, are commonplace internationally--but him not medalling would be an upset if the draws hold.

IU picks up 2023 Columbia 133-lb national qualifier, Angelo Rini. He's a grad transfer who was out much of this season with injuries. 

Avon's own Cheaney Schoeff (IU redshirt at 133 this year) enters the portal in a possibly not unrelated move.

Cheaney Schoeff also enters the portal fray at 133, ending his IU tenure.

17 minutes ago, Dingo Brigade said:

Hey there. Just wanted to let everyone know why I was MIA today. I had a health scare last night and I was unable to make it today. Pretty big bummer, but I'm heading home early today. Thanks for those of you who experienced this with me and it looks like we have a great shot at having 3 Indiana Olympians, which is absolutely incredible. I'm sad about Nick Lee but still a phenomenal showing by him. Mendez and Carroll both showed up and got some big scalps. I'll be rooting from afar for our 3 to finish the deal tonight.

Wow, so sorry! Get well soon!

Team sports vs individual sports are very different. If you aren't winning titles eventually as an individual, you're losing matches and can't be considered the best. In team sports, you could lose games but still be clearly the best individual. 

I do agree that being a 4-timer or being undefeated for a career is overrated. Mason Parris losing a match as a freshman at a big guy weight or Howe losing early to a fellow all-timer shouldn't mean anything when compared to 4-timers that were at low weights and/or didn't face royalty as freshmen. 

Iran 190 (5 gold, 8 medals)

Japan 130 (2, 5)

Kyrgyzstan 121 (1, 4)

Kazakhstan 118 (1, 4)

Mongolia 92 (0, 4)

Uzbekistan 85 (0, 3)

India 84 (0, 3)

Bahrain gets the 10th gold and 3 other medals...4 for 4 in medals from their import participants.

CP alum Frazier hits the portal out of Va Tech.. Wrestlestat has him at #49 among all 133s on D1 rosters. He'd have immediate national qualifier potential in the right spot.

Wrestling schools in 3A/4A out of total wrestling schools: 33% (102 of 311)

State placers from those 3A/4A schools: 70% (79 of 112)

Athletes representing those same 3A/4A schools in the T & F list above: 81% (65 of 80)

We see in wrestling too, that there can be a lot of small schools represented in a list of "at least one state qualifier" or "at least one placer" because there are so many of them. But you can see in the list that no 1A/2A school has more than 2 kids, and there are only 15 small-school kids (19%) coming from 67% of the total schools.