DrunkJoeNamath

1 hour ago, blueandgold said:

It's wild to see that three years in a row, Griffith owned the 130 lbs weight class.

think they still own it, I’d go 

1. Tsirtsis

2. Escobedo

Outstanding!

10 minutes ago, MattM said:

The other hair splitter here is weather to just take the wrestlers for only their HS career (in-season) or count their HS career  off season,  or  also add in all their post HS accolades as part of this argument.  Depending on which matrix a person chooses to use it would completely  reshuffles the list.   

I just like to celebrate guys, one could make a great argument for them all. I grew up watching Tsirtsis, Angel, Mauer, Coughlin, Howe. They, and the others I haven’t named, are the motivation the future ones will use. 
 

There’s never a clear winner & there never will be, which is what makes this topic really fun!

2 minutes ago, MattM said:

Yes, thus the “I’m not directing this at your Howe argument specifically” statement when replying to Gasman.  I was there, I followed it, and I still point out its one of the most impressive runs I’ve witnessed first hand.  The point was that some of these other guys are still worthy of being in the discussion too and shouldn’t just be discounted based on the perception that they lost a match or two in their career or didn’t run up the score to TF everyone through state.  But rather to also look at who all they have faces in and out of state and their pedigree too. 

Yeah, I agree with ya. Wasn’t taking it personal, just saying how impressive it actually was. Maybe I shouldn’t have directly replied to your post. Honestly though, there’s a small group that is in the argument. They all have 4 titles besides Howe. 

23 minutes ago, MattM said:

But if you are going to make that argument then you have to also bring in  the reverse side of that too. What was the level of the top field of competition they faced during that time.  You can look a lot more dominant when some of the possible top competition moved to a weight class above or below you, or you can look a lot less dominate in the box score when you try to find a way to face the top guys. Sure you have to face who is in front of you, but the word dominate can’t work in this discussion without the context of the level of competition.  I’m not directing this at your Howe argument specifically, and agree he was very impressive.  But you have to consider the level of the of competition they faced, and in some cases went out of their way to compete with outside of the regular HS season. 

Howe beat Nick Walpol, teched Briar Runyon and Braden Atwood, tech falled his way through the state finals his jr and sr year, aside from majoring Michael Duckworth 22-9 in his final high school match. 
 

Those guys weren’t slouches. 

2 minutes ago, Gasman said:

Ha cool okay I fixed it to what it should have said. 
 

like I have said before- for Howe- winning the way he won, only loss coming to Humphrey, hands down to me makes him the best of all time. Full disclosure I have only been around Indiana high school wrestling since 1995 so I don’t know how Howe would stack up against Ellis but since 1995 I think Howe is the clear leader, especially when you factor in college and post high school stats. Howe took David Taylor and Burroughs all the way to the final seconds, Howe arguably would have medaled at the Olympics if it were not for Burroughs being in his weight. The way I look at multiple state championships is this- you win 4 - obviously your the best of the best elite- but if you win all of those matches in overtime then your elite but you’re a takedown away from the competition/the second best guy that year. There was everyone else, then a very large gap, then Howe. 

I think we are on the same page.
 

Howe was a monster! Always the hardest working guy in the room. I remember him saying “I take control everything that I can control, that’s all I can do.”  

2 minutes ago, Gasman said:

Did Mauer ever dominate the field though? Was there ever a clear difference that he was on a different level? If so please give examples

 

ha good point- I’m saying for comparison sake- give examples where he would be ranked higher than Howe- he won in overtime twice, and by decision twice in his championship matches. At the same time, Howe loses once in his career to a 3x champ (5-1)  - mind you there were a total of NINE state championship medals between FIVE different state champions (4 future champs in that weight that year) in his weight class his freshman year. To me someone with one loss in the finals his freshman year and someone with no loses but close wins throughout makes Howe ranked higher. It’s the same reason we don’t have discussions that Josh Harper could be in the mix- Harper won close matches and almost was a 4x as well but didn’t dominate the competition. 

I don’t think he’s better than Howe. I think he’s better than you, and you should rephrase your question.  

Why is Howe the GOAT? That’s a better question. 

10 minutes ago, Gasman said:

Did Mauer ever dominate the field though? Was there ever a clear difference that he was on a different level? If so please give examples

4 state championships should suffice.

how many you got? 

15 hours ago, Galagore said:

Fair warning, long post with mostly just fluff that we all agree on already:}

 

Today our MS team participated in their conference tournament. My son made the finals battling two really tough kids in the quaters and semis to get there. He wrestled to a tough 2-2 tie in regulation, losing in OT. At first, both of us were really disappointed and let down with the day. After some reflection, it happened again. I fell in love with wrestling. Someone wins, someone loses, that's the way it goes. You can do everything in your power, and if the other wrestler is doing the same, sometimes you just have to tip your cap and say, "good job," and move on. No hiding, no time-outs, no substitutions. Maybe this will always be the way for my sons. Maybe there will always be someone who is a little bit stronger or a little bit quicker, or who is just plain a little bit better. And you know what? That's OK. Climbing to the top of the podium is fantastic. However, climbing to anywhere on the podium can be valuable. This sport teaches things that no other sport does. Someone (non-wrestler, actually) once said to me that wrestling seems even harder than boxing or MMA because, in those sports, you at least get to hit someone. If you are so frustrated you are freaking out, you can (at least attempt to) strike someone to release some pressure in your brain. Not wrestling. Wrestling makes you take it, and take it, and take it. You can't fully promise someone that it will eventually pay off because maybe the other person is in the exact same situation you are. And that's OK. As hard as this sport is, it is probably the easiest sport to clearly define the benefits of participation. In closing, there is honestly no real point to this post except that this is the one place where I know people understand what I am saying. So, thank you to Joe and to everyone on here for creating a community for people in Indiana who love wrestling. And thank you to anyone who read to the end of this rambling post. Typing this out was very cathartic.

Thanks for posting. The “climbing”, that your boys are working at, is gonna set them up for success in their future. Not just in the sport!

You’re kicking butt as a wrestling parent, even if you support class wrestling!  

15 hours ago, greco165 said:

Genius, I'm not referring to you, I'm speaking generally. Privilege affords many opportunities the average person can't access.

I’m gonna speak generally and call you a sore loser.

19 hours ago, Galagore said:

There's nothing wrong with promoting off-season wrestling, building youth programs, and having a fair post season individual tournament. Sounds like a recipe for some great wrestling in the Hoosier State to me.

People on both sides agree to this statement.  

Just different opinions on what’s “fair”. 

7 hours ago, greco165 said:

Smart guy I am, and I won't back down from a fight. 

** So long as we class the fight according to city size, to be fair.

7 hours ago, greco165 said:

There are some privileged individuals who start life on third base and feel like they hit a triple.

Privileged? In the sport of wrestling. What is happening in this world?
 

If I was privileged my old man would not have worked in a steel mill 70 hours a week and I’d have played golf at our summer home in FL. Give me a break.

I hope you don’t coach, if you do I REALLY hope you don’t drag this talk into your room. I don’t hate what you’re fighting for, I just disagree, but I hate your argument.

48 minutes ago, Galagore said:

Same with girls state. We will not, and should not halt efforts to sanction girls wrestling, even though IHSWCA puts on a girls state wrestling tournament.

I agree. 
 

Some people just disagree with classing individual state, and I’m one of them. I say this because we were talking about results at the tournament this last weekend. 

Classing an IHSAA Team State Series, having IHSAA Girls State, and wrestle-backs for placement at individual state are awesome topics to discuss! 

Just now, Mattyb said:

Again… IHSAA is not going to do this for individual state. We have classes team state and now we have 1A and 2A state. We also have frosh-soph state. So more opportunities are being created. 

Bingo! Wrestling is more accessible now then it’s ever been and we need to do our part so that trend continues.
 

5 minutes ago, Galagore said:

Why so many from big schools, then?

I was wondering why there was so many from small schools. Crown Point needs to pump their numbers up! 

27 minutes ago, greco165 said:

Whatever makes you feel better bro. It just seems more logical to acknowledge that inequities exist and people benefit from them.

Inequities do exist. 
 

Some people are state champions, lots of people are not. I personally don’t think the size of your school *negatively* affects your ability to become one. I believe it’s a multitude of things, and that’s why it’s difficult to accomplish. 

1 minute ago, KBCclan said:

It ain’t as easy as some would think and it doesn’t always mean the commitment of the athlete is lacking. It’s just hard. 

Which is why everyone can’t win a state championship. 

1 minute ago, base said:

I think I understand that you're shaking your head because there haven't been academy-type opportunities in NE Indiana.

Is this a school-size issue? I don’t think so. 

45 minutes ago, greco165 said:

Not everyone has the same support system. My family did not have the means or time to transport me for hours on weeknights and none of my teammates were doing that. I had to work year round junior and senior year to afford a car. Having these things local to you makes a huge difference.

i bought my first car for $1200 after bussing tables for a summer. I’m sure there are dozens/hundreds of guys on this board who have the same exact story.

We piled into that thing for years!
 

if there are several like-minded guys around, they’ll end up where they need to be. We would stop in just about every town along the way to pick guys up. All of us came from different backgrounds, and none of us were wealthy. 
 

Looking back, that was one of the toughest rooms to ever exist in Indiana, yet only a couple guys were from the school we practiced at. Everyone wanted to be there and wrestle the best guys they could during the off-season. It showed when we competed.
 

In high school, when there’s always a guy on the team who has access to a car, “no accessibility” is just an easier way of saying “I wrestle 4 months out of the year. 

25 minutes ago, blueandgold said:

I finally understand why large schools dominate small schools in Indiana, and it’s because of the lack of resources or opportunities as other kids. Last night, at a club practice, there was a family that drove over an hour from Terre Haute to get some work in with some quality kids. To say, everyone has the same opportunity is a bit of a lie. Yes, equality is important, but equity is the thing we should be focusing on. Some kids need MORE than what they have, so as a state we should aim to give more in some way, but I just don’t know how yet. I’m guessing it would depend on coaches and how much they’re willing to expand. For example, Contenders has two different locations in West and South Indy metro areas, maybe a club like that could expand to other cities  depending on demand to help kids get better.

I went to a “big school” in an area “known” for wrestling.. Drove an hour away for practice anyways, because the best in the area end up in the same room outside of school wrestling.

Not sure my school size had anything to do with me chasing down the best rooms and coaches in the area.

Just my thoughts. 

Wrestlebacks are for losers!

12 hours ago, Danny Bell1 said:

Lucas Anderson from Chesterton. The kid is tough, but still a little green. I’ve watched him beat some significant wrestlers the past few years on the national level. 
 

Quinton Buckmaster CP He is long!! Legs for days and rides em too! Nationally he been banging for a while now with Kevin English and Also with Fleeger, so watch out for him too.

Who is Kevin English and what are his wrestling credentials? 

On 4/17/2021 at 8:04 AM, Thor said:

On 3/6/2021 at 12:01 PM, GenHeavyHandz said:

Veazy over Gunner Henry today 7-1. I see why you wanted me to drop it.  I again was correct change this PP rankings and start giving our guys their due.  He is the best period.

Pre-high school rankings are the standard for how these young men will do in high school.
 

Fight for their due, Sensai Heavy Handz. 

2005 State Runner Up Danny Zemlik passed away this past week. 
 

Thoughts & prayers to his family, friends, and the Portage Wrestling Community.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.legacy.com/obituaries/nwitimes/obituary.aspx%3fn=daniel-michael-zemlik&pid=196319852&fhid=4979