Zen_Wrestler
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I think the discussion is great. I just don't care for the idea of having two varsity teams. I certainly see it as an advantage for a team that can and is allowed to do such a thing. I don't fault them for doing it, but I believe it going to cause damage down the road if more teams start doing this. This practice is great to give you kids not in the true varsity lineup get varsity experience, however they are not the best on their team. I wasn't aware that other sports are doing this and perhaps I am being short sighted. I can just see five or ten years down the road schools like Penn, Carmel, Ben Davis, etc fielding two, three, four teams and sending them across the state. Then it is not a far fetched idea to have many tournaments move to an open format where a single school takes several places. I don't believe it is a great environments for other teams to grow their programs and thus the sport.
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I am not connected with any team losing to a "JV" team. I am just a huge fan of the sport that has been involved in many levels. Take a program that cannot field two teams or an athletic program that won't send a second varsity team out to a tourney, where does that leave them? A team may have three kids in similar weight classes that are all competitive, but are unable to field or fund an alternative. Also, if you don't think it will cause seeding issues, you probably have never sat in on a seeding meeting for the Al Smith Classic. From what I hear, Clay had an issue where they did not wrestle Penn "JV" at a tournament. I do believe that the coach had the best interest of his team in mind. I believe this trend, if it continues will hurt "JV" programs and thus the sport in the majority of schools that cannot or won't be allowed to create the extra team.
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Maybe this has been discussed already and I am late to the game but I need to toss in my thoughts. The recent trend of sending "JV" teams to compete in varsity sports is not good for the sport in Indiana. My first question is how the world schools have enough weigh-ins to pull this off without going over the limit? If a team sends two teams to two varsity events that count as two weigh-ins how is their schedule structured to absorb 4 weigh-ins on one weekend? Then do it again in a few short weeks? What is the impact on seeding of sectionals, conference, and tournaments? How is the IHSAA viewing this trend? Why is wrestling allowed to do this? Are other sports to follow? I believe this is a case of wrestling being its own worst enemy again... team state is another example. I do think it is important for getting quality matches for elite program's reserve team, but there has to be a better way. Maybe this has been happening for some time and allowed to go unchecked the major programs are going to have two to three teams competing every weekend and I can't see how that helps the OVERALL sport. Perhaps we can move more to have a few open style tournaments instead. Ideas, comments?
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What in the world are you talking about? How did they "set" up the tournament for him to win?
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Great respect for Brad and his program, but those are the rules. I am sure he will not make the mistake again. It is a shame for him and the program. He has coached his kids well all year and that will pay off for the kids this weekend.
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TAE.... ready to retract your statement? Or do have evidence you are correct?
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I was reviewing the list of former state champs ( http://www.ihsaa.org/dnn/Sports/Boys/Wrestling/IndividualStateChampions/tabid/687/Default.aspx ) and notice the runner up at 103 in '89-90 and '91-92 were disqualified. Anyone know who they were and why they were DQ'd?
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The point is that team state is not needed to ensure sacrifice to the team. Team state is great. Not a necessary component to building a quality program where kids give 100% for the team. I am not questioning Coach Snyder's program, but don't see how a connection to last night's excellent match is a testament of a great dual match because of team state. Just not valid. I will never believe that last part. Great job last from two great teams and two outstanding coaches that I have the utmost respect for.
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Self-serving yes, not something to be ashamed of... I agree that Team State is a fantastic experience. My point is that a vast majority of coaches cannot and should not use that as an excuse to "buy in." Only a handful of teams can realistically set sights on Team State so their coaching of "team" comes from a different place. It is your task as a coach to find the point to get kids to be a part of the team and sacrifice for the team. I don't want to see Team State eliminated. Having team state does not make most wrestling coaches jobs harder or easier. Good coaches want to win, want kids to grow and mature, want a kids to learn they are a part of greater whole, and whole list of other life lessons... the belief that your ability to accomplish that hinges in team state is frustrating to me.
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If there is a decrease in sacrificing for the team... completely poor coaching. I am at a loss on how losing team state translates into less team sacrifice... my high school coach was the legendary Al Smith and we had no team state format. This argument implies that we couldn't have cared as for the team as much as wrestlers do today. Absurd. As for teams that wrestle their JV and team regional is an example of horrible coaching. I would not want my children to wrestle for a coach that would do something like that. I disdain that, but it is not the kids fault their coaches are cowards. I also, think that coaches that avoid Wednesday matches because they may or may not see their opponent on Saturday is also doing a disservice to kids and the sport. Wrestling is in sad state if coaches are using Team State as a reason for building TEAM concept.
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No offense Coach, but to say "team sacrifice and mentality will be lost if we lose team state" is absurd. Most teams in the state have no chance of advancing in the team state tournament and many have an equal amount of sacrifice and intestinal fortitude as a excellent team like Penn or Mishawaka. The team state has NOTHING to do with it. Are you to say teams today care more about winning then teams then teams of earlier years that did not compete in the current format? Coaches cultivate team belief. It is a philosophy of the coach, program and kids. Your advocacy of team state is self serving. With that being said I like the team state idea, but if coaches rely on that format to create a team concept something is wrong.
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Chesterton coach suspended
Zen_Wrestler replied to friendofrunningwriter's topic in Past Discussions
Coaches should be aware that if they wrestle an athlete at a higher weight class in a match/tournament immediately prior to another competition there will be other coaches watching where that athlete weighs in the next time. People don't get caught more often on this violation because they understand that people are watching. What they are not watching are the weigh-in sheets in the wrestling room. I would bet 85% of participants today started the week at weight that they would not be able to make-weight for the State Finals today by following a strict observation of the 1.5% rule. Anyone disagree? -
Chesterton coach suspended
Zen_Wrestler replied to friendofrunningwriter's topic in Past Discussions
This rule violation happens in nearly every room of the state. It makes no difference if a wrestler loses 6% or 1.75%... still a violation. -
The IHSAA has not been wrestling's best friend and their involvement in many issues have been self serving. With that being said, overall the organization seems to function rather well, albeit not perfect. Would be better off without them? Maybe. Maybe not. Bureaucracies are constantly asking us to change and rarely listening to the people when asking for change. There is a great danger in scrapping something that works to a certain degree, but change can be good. Personally, I think just adding some oversight would be good a thing. I am not convinced the DOE is up to that job. As a fan of wrestling I see the arrogance of the IHSAA rather bothersome. Here is a link to the House Bill http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2009/HB/HB1733.1.html
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I have got to agree with a few earlier posts. Deron Phillip's "Chilly Philly" was THE signature move. Everyone knew that was his ACE and he got it anyway. Ask Lehman from Memorial who he pinned in the finals at state. They happened to be in the same conference so they wrestled a few times. Or Billy Terry who was handing it pretty good to Deron at state then fell victim to the Chilly Philly! Robert Miller's side headlock was brilliant as well! However he didn't hit it on Gil Journey in the finals!
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The wrestlers, coaches, fans, officials, and the sport DESERVES better. These are legitimate complaints and should be remedied. Merrillville Semi-State needs and should have a better venue and it is time to realize that this is the ONLY semi-state that has this discussion for a reason. It is not complaining for complaining sake. From what I gather the the other semi-states treat the event with respect and professionalism that it deserves. I know this is the case for Fort Wayne. We need just a few questions answered.... Is there a another venue that is willing and capable of hosting it? Can it be moved to a new venue? If no. Why? Who would run the tournament (Merrillville can if they like)? Why isn't this happening?
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Merrillville is a horrible place to host Semi-State! Some people (guess who) running the tournament are the most arrogant people you will ever meet. The show is ABOUT this person... just ask 'them. ' Coaches are not welcome in the hospitality room after the morning meeting. The venue is awful and has NO business being the site of the semi-state. The wrestling staff as Merrillville is awesome and they in no way have any responsibility to the poor choice of venue. It is a disgrace considering the other venues on semi-state weekend. I have only been present at two different venues... Ft. Wayne and Merrillville so I really shouldn't compare it to the rest of the state. There is no area for wrestlers to warm up, very little fan seating, terrible vantage points, poor hosting, uhh.... I could go on.... and on...
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state champs getting beat at state the next year.
Zen_Wrestler replied to D-train's topic in Past Discussions
I had a few whippings at the hands of Dwone! He was a heck of nice guy, I thought he was a senior when he won it. We grappled a few times in freestyle as well. One other that comes to mind for me for losses was Rob Pavletic from Hobart, won state then the next year he didn't get out of the first day at Mishawaka. note: I did find an old newspaper article mentioning not being able to wrestle as senior, but it said he had to repeat 1st and 4th grade. Math seems fuzzy.. that would make him 20? No wonder he pounded me!