NickS

Here's a letter from Rob Koll, President of the NWCA, providing an update on the proposal today: http://www.nwcaonline.com/nwcawebsite/News/2012/09/11/division-i-national-duals-update Sep 11, 2012 To: Wrestling Stakeholders Fr: Rob Koll, President/NWCA Re: DI National Duals Update Date: September 10, 2012 On behalf of the NWCA Board of Directors, we want to provide you with a status report on an NCAA DI National Duals proposal that is going before the NCAA Championship Cabinet for a vote on September 11. If it passes there, it must still make it through the Presidents Council in November. I?m guessing that many of you have heard bits and pieces of this because it has been quite controversial among our DI wrestling coaches and extended community. As a matter of background, National Wrestling Hall of Fame member, John Graham, initially created this national dual meet concept in 1981 by forming Virginia Duals. In 1989, John Graham asked that the NWCA assume control of the event so it could eventually become a true National Dual Meet Championship. The National Duals was eventually titled, the NWCA/Cliff Keen National Duals in honor of one of the founding members of the NWCA (Cliff Keen). Over the years, the event enjoyed considerable success but never really became the true national dual meet championship it was intended to be because one or more of the top teams would routinely abstain from participating each year. It has become apparent to us that the only way a true National Dual Meet Championship will ever be realized is if the NCAA sanctions it. For this reason, we have been communicating this strategy to the wrestling community for a period of time. The need for a national dual meet championship has never been greater as evidenced by the following: 1.We need a way to make intercollegiate wrestling more relevant on every college campus. Here is our DI trend from 1982 to 2012 operating under the current individual NCAA Championship model: 147 teams/1982, 110 teams/1992, 87 teams/2002, 77 teams/2012. We believe growing our spectator base during the regular season around exciting dual meets (that lead to a post season championship) will substantially grow our spectator base and make wrestling more relevant on each college campuses. 2.The DI wrestling spectator base has been stagnant for over a decade. Ten years ago, we had 3 teams with an average fan base of 4000 or more and 10 other teams with 1000 fans or more. Ten years later, it is relatively unchanged. A careful analysis of every mainstream spectator sport in America tells us that they have one thing in common. Essentially, the outcome of every regular season competition ultimately determines advancement to the post season. This dynamic is critical for creating fan and media excitement in intercollegiate wrestling. 3.The new duals concept provides an opportunity for more student athletes to participate in a national championship who otherwise would not have the opportunity to compete in the individual championships. 4.Our sport needs and deserves to have a second marquee event that is nationally televised (ESPN is interested in televising NCAA National Duals in addition to an NCAA individual championship). 5.The NCAA has conducted a demographic study of the spectators who attend the NCAA DI Championships and has discovered that we have an aging fan base we need a strategy to attract a younger crowd and/or new fans to our sport. We believe the dual meet format will be much more attractive to school alumni and non-wrestling fans. 6.Historically, university administrations have not hesitated to eliminate intercollegiate wrestling programs even though they have placed high in the NCAA individual championships. Some recent examples would be Fresno State, UC Davis, and University of Oregon all had recent Top 25 finishes and NCAA champions within a few years of being dropped. Examples of smaller schools are: 1.Liberty University dropped wrestling after advancing 4 wrestlers to the NCAAs 2.UNC Greensboro dropped wrestling after advancing 5 wrestlers to the NCAAs that year (most ever). 3.Slippery Rock dropped wrestling after advancing 5 wrestlers to the NCAAs (most since 1973) The NCAA will continue to completely support the NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships as is (recognizing All Americans, providing per diems, etc.). The one caveat that has clearly created the most controversy among our coaches is that the official team champion would be crowned at the dual meet championship and no longer the individual championship. While the NWCA hoped to have team scores at both championships, it became clear that the NCAA can?t bend on this. On August 3, 2012, the DI representatives of the NWCA Board of Directors (Brian Smith/Missouri, Rob Koll/Cornell, Mark Cody/Oklahoma, Chris Ayers/Princeton, Mike Rogers/F&M, Jim Zalesky/Oregon State, Tom Ryan/Ohio State, Steve Garland/Virginia), discussed the caveat of the NCAA no longer keeping team score at the individual NCAA Championships. The discussion ended in unanimous support of the NCAA National Duals concept with the following strategies to overcome the team scoring concern at the individual championships (should this get passed): ?The NWCA can keep team score at the individual NCAA Championships much like the independent BCS group keeps a national ranking for football teams. ?The NWCA can sponsor secondary national dual meet championship (like the NIT for basketball) for all teams that do not advance to the NCAA DI National Duals. Immediately following our August 3 Board meeting, this concept was presented in its entirely to all DI coaches who were in attendance at our convention. Approximately 2/3 of our 77 DI wrestling programs were represented at the NWCA convention. As you can imagine, there was some very spirited debate but when all of the dust settled, we were able to get unanimous support from every head/assistant coach in attendance. Over the past few weeks, numerous coaches called for yet one more vote so that EVERY coach could voice his opinion. We subsequently conducted a vote where all 77 DI coaches voted and the measure passed 39-36-2. In addition to being supported by a majority of DI coaches, we also have the support of some very prominent and influential administrators such as: ?Bob Bowlsby, Big12 Commissioner and former athletic director at Stanford & Iowa. ?Col Billy Walker, Deputy Athletic Director at Air Force and former chair of the NCAA Wrestling Committee. ?Dave Martin, Associate Athletic Director at Oklahoma State University and current chair of the NCAA Wrestling Committee. ?Derek van der Merwe, Deputy Athletic Director at Central Michigan University and former chair of the NCAA Wrestling Committee. ?Jim Fallis, former Athletic Director at Northern Arizona University and former NCAA Championship Cabinet member. ?Dan Gable All that said, the NWCA has decided to lend its full support to the proposal as the NCAA Wrestling Committee puts it in front of the NCAA Championship Cabinet for a vote on September 11. Of course, it is impossible to speculate how that vote will turn out. We recognize that the new National Duals concept is NOT a ?silver bullet? by itself as it relates to saving college wrestling teams. That is why the NWCA is contracting with Dr. Coyte Cooper at University of North Carolina to develop/implement a comprehensive marketing kit for FREE to all college programs. We must also dedicate considerable time to addressing our DI conference infrastructure challenges (football and basketball conference realignment have made numerous wrestling conferences vulnerable). Further, we must continue to improve intercollegiate wrestling?s overall ranking with the NCAA?s Academic Progress Rate (APR) so we have better eligibility and graduation rates. Moreover, we have also invested heavily into coaching development so that our coaches are the absolute best stewards of their respective programs. Needless to say, we still have a lot of work ahead of us but we are making great progress on all fronts. Simply stated, growing the spectator and media support and convincing the key decision-making administrators on each campus that there is a huge community outpouring of support for their wrestling program is imperative to protecting the precious 77 DI wrestling programs we have remaining. It?s hard for many administrators to justify spending $300,000 to $500,000 per year for a wrestling program with home dual meet crowds of less than 50 and multiple forfeits in the lineups (despite whatever success a few wrestlers might have at the individual NCAA Championships). While there are some calculated risks in this move, we believe it pales in comparison to the risk of doing nothing. We believe Albert Einstein said it best. ?The definition of insanity is when you continue to do the same things and expect a different outcome.? We have lost over one half of the DI wrestling programs since 1975 under the current NCAA Championship model. We believe that if we don?t act, we could end up like men?s gymnastics with 16 college teams remaining. For us to think we can transform intercollegiate wrestling into a mainstream spectator sport under our current NCAA Championship infrastructure is to suggest we can accomplish something that no mainstream spectator sport in America has been able to do. In summary, I believe legendary wrestler and wrestling coach Dan Gable said it best: ?I am for moving forward whether it works or not, especially if there is little risk that it can set us backward. Going from there, I am not a status quo guy. If this works, we will have improved college wrestling 100% by going from one great event to two. There isn?t much in life we can improve by 100%.? One thing is for certain. We have a passionate wrestling community that will NEVER let wrestling fail. If this concept doesn?t pass, we will find an alternative. We will be sure to keep you abreast on our progress of the National Duals proposal as well as other important initiatives. Please don?t hesitate to call if you have any questions. ?National Duals Proposal

This was just a coaches' vote and there seems to be a few more steps that need to be gone through before this format is instituted. However, if this gets passed, we could be seeing a dual tournament determining our NCAA team champion as soon as next year. http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/10572 On Saturday, 39 of 77 Division I head wrestling coaches voted in favor of a proposal to have the NCAA team championship decided by a 16-team dual meet event. Since the majority voted in favor of the proposal, it will now be reviewed by the NCAA Championships Cabinet during a three-day meeting that gets underway on Monday. If the proposal passes, it could go into effect during the 2013-14 season. NWCA president and Cornell head wrestling coach Rob Koll sent a letter on behalf of the NWCA Board of Directors to the Division I head wrestling coaches with the results of the vote and what needs to happen for the proposal to pass and go into effect. To: DI Wrestling Coaches Fr: NWCA President Rob Koll on behalf of NWCA Board of Directors Re: Vote on National Duals Proposal On behalf of the NWCA Board of Directors, I want to thank everyone for sharing your thoughts and concerns regarding the National Duals proposal over the past 4 weeks or so. All 77 DI head wrestling coaches did vote and the results are as follows: ?39 in favor of moving forward with the National Duals proposal ?36 opposed ?2 abstained Please know we have listened closely to all concerns and they have been communicated to the NCAA Wrestling Committee (the committee that will shepherd the National Duals proposal to NCAA Championships Cabinet for review on September 11). In light of the recent DI coaches affirmative vote, we are going to maintain the NWCA's endorsement of the proposal but we will be sure to communicate the recurring concerns that many of you have expressed so they can be considered by the Championship Cabinet. This National Duals proposal still has a long way to go before anything is finalized. It will championed by the NCAA Wrestling Committee and NCAA staff members from this point going forward and will be thoroughly reviewed and discussed by conference commissioners, athletic administrators, NCAA staff members, and ultimately a group of Presidents. This vetting process takes time and I believe whatever the outcome might be, it is clear that many more coaches now understand the importance of being much more involved with the NWCA initiatives, our Board of Directors, and our committee infrastructure. In fact, I will do everything possible to facilitate an initial meeting with all DI coaches in Chicago (October 23/24 assuming that works with everyone's schedule) so we can begin talking about wrestling challenges, committee assignments, and so forth. In summary, our sport has many challenges in front of it. Now, more than ever, we need to be united and committed to rolling up our sleeves to develop viable solutions to our sport's greatest threats. I will communicate back to everyone with an update of what happens at the Championship Cabinet meeting next week.

I agree. Any wrestler that has the privilege to compete in both events will definitely be battle tested for sure.

http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,21576.0.html ^This thread will give the answers to 1. and 3. 2. A committee was put together in order to select the wildcard teams. A consensus was quickly came to for the 3a and 2a wildcards because only a few teams were even eligible for those positions. However, the 1a class was difficult because there were around 10 teams involved in the process and very little separated many of these teams. 4. I believe it's going to be the first Saturday before Christmas. Which makes it December 22nd and will be held at Westfield High School

Since you're tinkering, how about putting up a link to the IHSWCA site from your homepage... ;D I do like what you're doing with the sidebar though.

Based on Rule 50, it looks like they are fine with us using "creative scheduling" but are against us sending JV's to varsity meets to free up scheduling points. I don't know... :-\. Maybe next year for a proposal we can try having a weigh-in exemption added to the IHSWCA team state so this rule would become a non-issue.

This is what I've gathered. Going through the IHSAA by-laws, before this last meeting, there was nothing to Rule 50 that said that we couldn't overbook our scheduling points. ^^^ This language appears to be a provision (labeled Section 5) for Rule 50 that officially reinforces what we already knew. Before this section was put into effect, Rule 50 could've been interpreted in a way that teams could've put together 50 scheduling points as long as they competed in only 18. Hypothetically of course. I don't think it's anything to be alarmed about. I'm guessing the IHSAA was alerted to this situation when we put together our IHSWCA team state and were looking for a weigh-in exemption.

Plans were changed when the weigh-in exemption was taken off the table. Without that exemption, teams would be making scheduling modification in-season. That's a position that'd have been unfair for the teams that would've been potentially selected.

I can't dispute this. We are under a 18 point system now. So let's say we have 9 points set aside for FK, and 9 points for FS. I'm sure alot of coaches have a schedule that they've made and don't want to tangent away from drastically. This is something that would be inevitable under this system that you've proposed. Coaches are going to have to find schools to wrestle, then find out what style they want to wrestle, then find an open date to set up a match. This is just for a single dual. What about for super duals like Bellmont's? Would the entire super dual be wrestled one style? Several of those teams might want to (or need to) wrestle FS, so they'll bow out of that. Now replacement teams need to be found for those events. For tournaments, especially for those around the holidays, how would these be effected? Let's assume they all are FK tournaments (which may not be the case). There'll probably be many currents schools that will need to drop out because they've exhausted their FK points at various other parts of the season. So replacement teams will be needed for these events. This system would be asking for major overhauls for regular season schedules, nevermind the post-season. I'm all for Indiana being a trend setter, however the collegiate season is also a single folkstyle season. I'd think that states would be more inclined to keep their seasons closer to the format of the NCAA's than of some random midwestern state.

While I do like the premise of having 3 disciplines, I do think this may be unrealistic. For starters, how many coaches are actually interested in the FS/GR styles? Since the rule changes, FS/GR participation has dropped. If wrestling participation has dropped, I think it's only safe to assume that FS/GR coaching participation has dropped as well. On top of that, from what I've gathered, we have a ton of lay coaches just for folkstyle. Now we want these coaches to teach FS/GR, styles they may not be interested in teaching anyway? Also, how would we incorporate the other 2 styles into the season? How would duals and super duals be ran? What about tournaments during the season? Running a 1-style tournament is a marathon of an event right now (ex: Connersville, Al Smith). How would the IHSAA go about running the post-season? We can't even get wrestlebacks because they said that would add time to the events. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the international styles. If we could somehow pull off a 3-style season, that would be interesting. However, I think those styles are tailored to the more serious wrestlers who want to expand their abilities. Also, do we really want to be having a 3-style season when every other state would still be in a folkstyle season? Should we want our wrestling season to be more in line with every other states' wrestling season? or should we want to be treated the same as the other individual sports in Indiana? Just some of my thoughts.

Coach Harmon, I know you're comments are primarily directed towards Coach McCormick, but since they are being made on a public forum, I do feel compelled to reply to the comments in the above quotation. I don't understand how you can say the IHSWCA team champion "doesn't mean a whole lot," but in the same breath say "most teams have bought into it." These are two totally conflicting viewpoints. Maybe it's your own personal opinion that the upcoming IHSWCA event won't mean alot. However, whatever apathy you may feel for it, there will be schools that'll feel honored and will put alot of emphasis on it. The field isn't set yet, but check out the caliber of the teams involved already (which is at the start of this thread) and that should give you an indication of the talent pool of the event. In regards to teams having to drop tournaments and the impact on other events. I'm not going to pretend to know each individual schools particular situation. Maybe some will have to drop tournaments, maybe none of them will. I like to keep my hands in my own cookie jar on that front. But at one point, 2 of our toughest regular season tournaments, the Al Smith and Spartan Classsics were in their infancy. Obviously the only way that these tournaments became so prestigous was by inviting teams away from other events that were going on at the time as well. Which, in essence, must of hurt the integrity of those other events. So let me ask you a question Coach Harmon. Do you feel that the Al Smith and Spartan Classics have helped or have hurt Indiana wrestling since their inception? Your answer to that question should determine what your feelings should be towards the IHSWCA team state. Nick Strub East Central

Coach Harmon, Coach McCormick has brought attention to this already, but there will be no weigh-in exemption for teams participating in this event. It will be up to each individual school to use whatever creative measures they need to stay within the 18 scheduling points allotted (which doesn't necessarily mean having to give up a tournament). I hope this helps.

John Smith apparently says classless wrestling is hurting Indiana. Yet, according to your Indianamat Preview magazine, this year's senior class is "arguably the best to ever come out of Indiana." I really want to side with you and your magazine, but quoting John Smith (and with his resume you've posted) has made it very hard to do so. What are your thoughts on this?

John Smith?

This is our chance to get one of our "minds" onto the IHSAA Board. Who's interested!?! http://www.ihsaa.org/dnn/Home/tabid/38/Default.aspx "IHSAA Accepting Assistant Commissioner Applications The Executive Committee of the Indiana High School Athletic Association, Inc. announces a vacancy for the position of Assistant Commissioner as of June 4, 2012. Interested parties should submit a letter of interest and request for application to Bobby Cox, Commissioner, Indiana High School Athletic Association, Inc., 9150 N. Meridian Street, Indianapolis, IN 46260 or via email at bcox@ihsaa.org. Upon receipt of the letter of interest, an application will be returned to the applicant. Completed applications must be received in the IHSAA office no later than March 23, 2012."

On the contrary, every team does have an opportunity to be invited and compete in this event. Check out the official team scores again: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,21576.0.html You'll see the teams in these standings are the same teams that are listed in each and every IHSAA sectional. Every team had an opportunity to prove what they were capable of throughout the individual state tournament. The only differences between what the IHSWCA is doing, and what the IHSAA had, are qualifying criteria and scoring systems. To advance to the team portion of the IHSAA tournament, a team had to score the most points in their particular sectional. To advance to the IHSWCA tournament, a team had to score the most points in their particular semi-state or win one of the wildcard spots. (The only part that can be considered remotely arbitrary is the coaches' vote for the 3rd and 4th wildcards. But to even qualify for a coaches' vote, a team has to be within 30-35 points. In other words, they still have to perform well.) At this time, Penn is in position for the 4th wildcard. Along with Franklin, Lake Central, and Center Grove.

Smooth, the only clear facts about the IHSWCA event will be that it's going to be the toughest tournament to compete it in outside of individual state. No super dual will come close to the talent that will be seen next year here. This event will be whatever the wrestling community wants it to be. That's all that can be said about it. Instead of arguing over the perplexity of split champions, or who's event will be recognized as the truer champion. I choose to look at this as being an exciting time for Indiana wrestling. We have an opportunity to show that duals are a very important aspect of this sport to the coaches, fans, wrestlers, and ultimately to the IHSAA. This is why this plan was put together. Again, this event will be what we make of it. Kind of open-ended, I know. But that's the exciting part of it for me personally. All the while, we'll be putting a good product out on the mat. If we give up on this now, we show the IHSAA that we are disfunctional and nonchalant towards the whole dual idea. We'll give them no reason to change their mind on wrestling being only an individual sport. Looking at states that surround us: Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio. All of them have state duals. Their culture speaks for itself, so they must know something about a team state and its impact on the wrestling community.

I just want to give some context to how talented our IHSWCA event will be next year. The 2 toughest regular season tournaments, Al Smith and Connersville, have 23 and 15 returning SQ's from this past year respectively. Of the 19 teams that have secured bids for our IHSWCA event, there will be 36 returning SQ's. That's almost as many as the Al Smith and Connersville COMBINED. With 5 selections pending, that number will only grow. Bellmont Duals is probably the most anticipated and talented dual event on a yearly basis, outside of IHSAA team state. There are 15 returning SQ's from that event. The teams that advanced to IHSAA team state, the dual event that crowns our champion of Indiana, have 20 total returnees. Our IHSWCA 3A event, alone, will have 24 returning SQ's. With 1 selection pending, that number will only grow. Take a look at the teams that are actually in the event. In 3A, you won't find a team that is or has not been a team state caliber/contending team. At the 1A and 2A levels, there will be at least 10 new teams that'll get to experience a "team state atmosphere." These teams will get to wrestle side-by-side with Perry Meridian, Mater Dei, Cathedral, Crown Point and feel the electricity from their fanbases. Which is something that never happened under the IHSAA model. We have something that has the POTENTIAL to be better. I put alot of emphasis on potential because it's up to us as an Indiana wrestling community to make it what we want it to be. If we want it to be "just another super dual" then it will be just that. If we want it to be our Team State, then it will be that. If we are going to be apathetic, then it will fall apart.

Karl, is there a link to the article in which Mr. Cox made this "somewhat circumvent some rules" comment?

I see Lance Ellis bumping up 4 weights to get the fall.

After 113 PM 12-0 CP 7-6 Phone dying. Have to turn it off.

After 106... PM 9-0 CP 6-4

Penn down 10 with 2 bouts to go...

PM and CP both win big... After 182 MD 42 Bellmont 19 MD will win After 152 Penn 21 Cathedral 19 Dual of the round

Scores.... After 160 MD 36 Bellmont 16 After 182 PM 52 WC 15 After 182 CP 52 Kokomo 12 After 145 Cathedral 19 Penn 15