Y2CJ41
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Southwood and Northridge are an hour and a half apart!
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You can add not having class wrestling to your list of why we are killing ourselves.
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There are a lot more positive affects than there would be negatives. Wrestling at the small schools is not healthy right now, should we let it die there?
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The IHSAA allows schools to bump up a class for I believe two years at a time. Based on enrollments, Yorktown would be a "big school" in a two class system and Mater Dei would be a small school. The cutoff for two classes would be about 700 students(meaning about 150 teams have 700 students or less and 150 have 700+). Yorktown has 801 students and Mater Dei has 529 per this year's release. There are more potential wrestlers walking the halls than you want to admit. Remember you don't have to be tall, big, athletic, etc to be a wrestler. Wrestlers are all shapes and sizes, which makes it very enticing to smaller kids especially. When a school starts having success and other kids see it, they want to be a part of it. It is drastically harder to recruit kids for a struggling program, than a good one. When kids start qualifying for state or getting a lot closer to going to state you'll see more buzz about the program within the school. That will lead to more participants at the high school level and even at the youth and middle school levels.
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There are two things that could and probably would happen if we went to class wrestling. 1. Good coaches would be more likely to stay at smaller schools. Right now there is no incentive to stay at a smaller school when an opportunity arises to move up. See other sports that have very talented coaches that have stayed at their smaller schools as an example. 2. More wrestlers would get state credentials earlier in their career. With that they will get attention from college coaches earlier. I'll use Eli Stock as an example. If he would have been a placer in a small class he would have been able to market himself to college coaches last spring and already have some interest from college coaches. However, he has only one placement(a pretty good one) in late February. Most college coaches have allocated their roster spots(note many college have roster limits) and even more so scholarship money a long time ago. Having even a state qualifier credential would have been very beneficial to him coming into this season. He is just one example of many that has to compete with kids in Ohio, MIchigan, Illiniois, etc that already have state credentials on their resume. Whether you like it or not, those kids are getting attention from college coaches much easier due to their "watered down system."
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3A 100/102 2A 96/103 1A 85/103 Total 281/308 Data is here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1krfJOL8VwuS33WW30KkI6rtHlL-lhu2QhNUcp4Hw8AM/edit?usp=sharing
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If more kids are wrestling at small schools won't they have more chances for a state qualifier/placer? Right now there are over 400 forfeits at the 1A level. Participation numbers are obviously hurting at the small school level when the teams average 4 forfeits per team. Only 18 out of 103 1A teams have a full lineup, with 71 having 3 or more forfeits.
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Considering there are 400 open spots at the 1A level vs. 100 at the 3A level, we can get a very good ROI on the small schools. Once there is even a little success at a school that has had very little success the positive attention brought to the program will result in many more new people exposed to the sport. I'm sure there are many people in Shenandoah that made their first trip to semi-state and state the past couple weeks due to their success. Those people will now tell their friends and family about the experience and even talk to the young boys they see about the fun they had. 84 of the 3A schools have had a state placer in the last 10 years, while only 29 of the small schools have.
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From last year's Wisconsin tournament The three-day attendance total was 39,456, including a tournament-record 13,966 on Saturday. I think it's closer to happening than people realize. The IHSAA Has stated that they really think adding the 6th class to football was beneficial. There have been other individual sports that have proposed classed state tournament recently also.
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I forgot facts don't faze you. What was a I thinking. Here are some more facts There are 20 schools that have yet to have a state qualifier, 18 from 1A, 2 from 2A....believe it or not, none from 3A Guerin Catholic 2A Salem 2A Attica 1A Carroll (Flora) 1A Covington 1A Cowan 1A Crawford County 1A Faith Christian 1A Hebron 1A Indiana Deaf 1A Indianapolis Lutheran 1A Lapel 1A Mitchell 1A North Judson 1A North Putnam 1A Paoli 1A Switzerland County 1A Tri 1A Tri County 1A Westview 1A Since 2000 1A 73 of 102 schools have had a state qualifier 2A 94 of 102 schools have had a state qualifier 3A 99 of 101 schools have had a state qualifier Since 2008(10 years) 1A 59 of 102 schools have had a state qualifier 2A 88 of 102 schools have had a state qualifier 3A 96 of 101 schools have had a state qualifier Everything is fine, nothing to see here.
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So you would just drop the program if we went to class wrestling? More small schools want class wrestling than big schools. You tend to forget I have been at a small school and at a big school. I have seen both ends of the spectrum and had success at both ends too. The big schools LOVE beating up on the small ones and getting easy sectional championships. That is why it was so hard to go to class basketball because coaches jobs were secure when they won 20+ straight sectionals against their smaller neighbors.
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I know you hate facts, but... 4th place finishers by class 3A 34 of 140 24.3% 2A 14 of 62 22.6% 1A 8 of 22 36.4% I'd tend to think those would be the ones most affected by a classed system. There were already buttons made about 10 years ago.
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Thank you for that comment. No one has stated that. However, Carmel and Ben Davis had as many or more state placers than all but 1, 1A school. That is exactly the things that small towns do when their sports teams have success. More towns that do this will bring lots of positive recognition for the sport. Thus more kids will want to be like the high school kids and join up with wrestling.
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So more teams having success won't have an affect on participation numbers? Did you not see or hear the Shenandoah crowd this weekend? They were as loud or louder than teams like Chesterton and Perry Meridian. Have you ever seen a 1A or 2A sectional or regional championship? They literally shut down the town when their high schools have success. This weekend Central Noble had a sign outside the town saying "last one to leave, turn the lights off" when they had a couple state qualifiers and a girls basketball team at semi-state. Imagine if that were more schools. That is GOOD for the sport. More kids and schools going to state will promote the sport in more places.
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Based on the forfeits from this year here are the projected numbers for state qualifiers and placers % of Wrest--# Qual--# Place 1A--28.32%--63.4---31.7 2A--33.59%--75.2---37.6 3A--38.09%--85.3---42.7 Even if we go that route...we are still coming up short. Except there have many that have come over to the good side over the years due to logical thinking and arguments.
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So does having 14 weight classes, why not just 1 or 3? If we are against watering down the tournament how about only champions from sectional, regional, and semi-state advance. Let's make it a real achievement to get to state instead of constantly letting losers advance.
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Indiana State Champs vs Ohio potential champs
Y2CJ41 replied to Wrestling Scholar's topic in Past Discussions
The percentages get worse as you thin the field further. Shouldn't they at least come close to being standard. -
So why do we(and every other state) class things like volleyball, baseball, basketball, etc? Do those players hit or throw the ball harder or something?
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I've seen growth in a program that I was very much involved in. I have seen this very much first hand. It's not unobtainable, but we need to also sit back and see how long it lasts. Is Shenandoah a fly by night program or do they join the ranks of Adams Central and Prairie Heights as a perennial small school power? We'll see and I'm rooting for them to continue the success.
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Class wrestling will level the playing field for small schools. Right now the work they have to put in to be competitive is beyond measure. One of the benefits of class wrestling is better coaches will stay at the smaller schools like they do in other classed sports. There are many of our top coaches such as Jim Tonte and Brad Harper who both started at smaller schools then moved to bigger ones. Amazingly they had success at those small schools, but not even close to the success they had at the bigger ones. Maybe those smaller schools see that success is a little more attainable and start clubs or invest more into their program. Once schools that have had little to no success start having success it can steamroll quickly.
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So the kids in 1A for football are sad because they can't play Carmel? The kids won't care and will go against anyone you put them against. It's amazing to me that these percentages consistently match the percentage of total student enrollment in each class. 63% - 3A 24.5% - 2A. 12.5% - 1A Its almost as if it takes a special kid to make it to state regardless where he goes to school. And when you have 2000 kids walking the halls you're gonna end up with more special athletes. Yet those numbers are not the same in terms of placers....hmmm. Nor do those numbers match the number of entries into the state tournament by each class....hmm.
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I'm sure the buzz around Monrovia right now will help get some more wrestlers out for the program. Many small schools have clubs and have had clubs for MANY years. Simply starting a club doesn't magically make great wrestlers.
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Just imagine if #TheCounty would go to New Castle instead of Evansville. It's a fun game to play.
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State could still be held at Bankers Life. You can add mats or have different sessions like other states do. Lawrence Central had Jesus Mancera qualify for state this year. Picking out random schools and saying "look they have 2000 students and didn't have qualifier" is meaningless. 58% of 3A schools had a qualifier, 37% of 2A, and 14% of 1A.
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Ahhh yes...an oldie but goodie there! Can't stop you now.
