ENoblewrestling

I was speaking to the number of kids participating, not the results, that to me seems like the colleges issue not the high schools.

Ya but our kids have the choice to reply to them or not. I would bet if our guys really showed some interest in the schools that the schools would really be interested in some of our guys. My guys thus far have made the decision not to wrestle in college. Some have chose to go to big state schools, the military or to participate in other sports. If they wanted to get the discussion going with those schools they could have, but again chose not to. Also if letters from schools are so easy to get then why do only my top kids get them? Wouldn't they be addressed to me, or to the A.D. and not personally to the kids?

Just throwing this out there with all of this talk of exposure. I was just going through my mailbox here at school, and one of my wrestlers had a letter from a school in Wisconsin. I have not noticed any problem with getting my guys recruited here at a small school. We have had state qualifiers and semi-state qualifiers get letters all the time from schools. We have had two kids that had not made it out of sectionals going into their senior seasons get looked at and talked to by in-state schools. I personally have not seen any problem with our guys getting recruited at all. If they are talented coaches pick up on that. The kids that don't get looks are simply not that good, flat out, they are not good enough to wrestle at the next level and the coaches know it. A coach can tell how talented or athletic a kid is by seeing him wrestle. I dont buy the argument that classing the individual tournament is going to change anything as far as recruitment goes. I think that the bigger problem as far as D-2, D-3 schools go is that with the cost and the amount of effort that goes into wrestling at the college level it is not something that makes sense for a lot of kids. The private (d2, d3) schools cost a lot of money. They do not have atheletic scholarships, so you need to either have your acedemics or fanangle a way to get scholarships/ grants. In the end it will probably still cost you more money then going to a state school and just paying your way, and imo you don't get as good of a degree (sorry private school guys). You also have to factor in the commitment that wrestling in college takes, and I think that our lack of D2, D3 guys comes more from the want to do it than hoe much we are getting recruited. I thnk our guys would rather have fun and enjoy college at a state school, rather than putting in the commitment to wrestle at a smaller school. The response to this will be why do so many kids choose to (insert sport) at that level? The reason is those other sports are not as hard, and do not take the comittment that wrestling does. The other sports also offer more recogneition than what d2, d3 wrestling does. I also dont think that our guys are doing so horrible at the d2, d3 level. Look at oiour instate schools they are filled with Indiana kids.

Also I know its an opinion piece so dont jump down my throat about that, just an interesting article.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100302/SPORTS15/3020329/1160/SPORTS0203/At-100-high-school-basketball-tourney-is-ailing Good article about the what class basketball's effect on basketball. Don't let it happen to us.

I am one of those people who see the 75/ 25 break down as what it should be given that 75 percent of kids go to big schools. I also do agree that numbers make a difference in how many indivduals a team takes to state, but what I dont agree with is that we need to have a separate tournament so that we can compete, I dont believe that to be true. Also if we are trying to get recognition to all of the deserving atheletes doesn't a classed system acctually screw the big school kids who would not be recognized for making because they dont make it to the big class state, when the same recognition of being a stater goes to a small school kid who was at such a disadvantage that a completly new tournament needed to be made for them, or would we justs have to recognize that making it in the small school tourny is not as much of an accomplishment? You really cant have it both ways.

I agree Y2, but I think that shows that the team portion should be classed. It doenst mean that a single individual from a small school, or small state can't compete.

Just wandering if anybody else has thought about how open the team state championship looks for next year. In my opinion it is the most open that I have seen it since switching to the dual format. I think it will still be the ussual teams involved, but I really dont think that there is a heavy favorite going into next year.

Y2 why is Florida better than us in Football, Baseball, Basketball as well. I would say that it comes down to the fact that they have more Atheletes and possibly that atheletics takes on an increased importance for what ever reason in their state. Also doesnt Brandon's dominance skew their wrestling numbers a bit?

Thanks

Are you guys starting next week or this week?

I got a letter in the mail yesterday from a group known as Indiana Extreme which is starting a club in Fort Wayne. Its going to be at Snider so that is an option in Fort Wayne. I have never met or seen them in action but they are tied to Michigan Extreme who have very impressive numbers a lot like CIA, but they are in a classed state so the numbers are scewed a bit (half joking). Anyhow if it is anything like what I have seen at CIA practices it will be a great asset to Fort Wayne wrestlers willing to put in the time and effort. Also I agree with what Y2 put the best room in the area is at Garrett, we try to push all of our kids there on Weds. nights. Y2 is your time and clinician list out yet?

This was the first year for the Homestead Super Duals and it had 8. Busco-1 Homestead-3 South Adams-1 Marion-1 Heritage-1 Snider- 1 Im pretty sure if you look at semi-staters it had alot. Busco-3 Homestead- 4 or 5 Marion-4 South Adams 4 or 5 Heritage 4 or 5 Snider-2

The "gateway to state" is the Rochester John Mckee Invite right?

Norton also placed third last year, I think that shows he has ability to beat top competition

Braxton Siddons was JV at Carrol last year and a semi-state qualifier for Churubusco this year.

First off I want to start by saying that I feel horrible for the wrestlers, coaches, and fans that were involved in the mess that was the Jay County Regional. I cannot believe that this happened to these wrestlers, and that their seasons had to end that way. With that situation obviously comes anger, and frustration with the powers at the IHSAA. I have also read many people pushing for lawsuits, boycotts, and peoples jobs. Another thing that keeps coming across is anger and hostility toward the IHSAA because we feel as though wrestling is treated badly by the association. While all of these accusations, and feelings of anger may be just, I feel that we as a sport, and as a community would be better served to focus on the positive aspects of our sport, and what the IHSAA offers us. We need to come together, and instead of using our anger in negative ways, and fighting and protesting something that will not be changed, and use it positivly. If we want to show that we wont be pushed around and treated as second fiddle we need to come together. Set attedence records, and show our support for those still in the tournament, and for the sport we love. Instead of being a divided group we need to come out in droves to show that our sport is important, and that we have a strong enough fan base, that we have a say and that we will not be treated this way. There is also a great amount of anger toward the IHSAA right now, and rightfully so. We need to look at were we would be with out them and the service that they provide. The IHSAA state finals is the pinicle of our sport. While the ISWA put forth a great service those events at least in my mind are tune ups, and provide a chance to get better for the IHSAA tournament. Without the IHSAA our sport would die. Other than true die hard wrestlers there would be very few if it were not for the IHSAA and the services that they provide. So while I think that they screwed the Randolph County kids horribly we also need to remember how much we enjoy and look foward to the finals. Again I think we need to come together right now, instead of tearing ourselves, and or sport apart.

The goal of high school atheletics is to promote sportsmanship, hard work, dedication, etc. Just wondering, do you feel that teaching kids that life can be tough, and that you sometimes have to deal with the hand that is dealt is part of that "etc" category of what we are teaching kids? The goal of a tournament, no matter if it is the State Finals or Woodlan Initational, is to find out who the best is, its why they keep score, why people get eliminated, and were the hard work and dedication pays off.

Galagore I agree whole heartedly that there are many reasons, and goals that are found in high school atheletics, I just dont see how classing a tournament that has the goal of finding the best individual would help to push goals like, participation, sportsmanship, any more than a one class tournament.

Hungus, I said before that I am for the team part being classed, it takes more than one person, it is a team, smaller schools would be at a disadvantage in football and are in wrestling as a TEAM. In the track argument I put forth it shows from times that the kid is legitly not the best. Its the same here, and I guess we will just disagree on this but the point of a tournament and competition in many ways is to find the best, if not why have a state tournament or any tournament at all? Boot- same as I just said to Hungus, your kids are not dumb, they are just not as good. Thats what we find out from competition. Other lessons are learned, but in the end you compete to find out who the best is, it is the point.

I know a lot of people who know him, according to them its not his real name. I wont unmask him though.

Hungus, I wasn't trying to offend with the close-minded comment, hell I think both sides are close minded on the issue. I like to throw some ideas out there sometimes and it seems that they dont get looked at as legitiment arguments, which I feel that they are, but instead as a point to be attacked for having an opposite thought. I think a lot of people feel that way on the site, and it is what it is not a big deal. We will have to agree to disagree I guess. Anyhow ive wanted to ask you, is the Hungus name a Neil Young moniker, or just a random coiniciedence.

First off what I am saying is that I am not for dividing the finals into classes, I agree that I may not have been as clear as what I could have. What I should have said is that I am all for expanding the tournament in a reasonable way as long as it is the best that make it, not a classed version because some smaller schools are not as good. As for the second statement I have said on the site several times that I am for a classed team portion, so no I do not take anything away from our football team for making it to semi-state in a classed team format. In an individual tournament, it is for the individual, not the team. What if track was classed, it is an individual sport. Are you telling me that if a kid wins small state running like say a 11.2 100, and the slowest time for a qualifrer in the big class is like 11.3 that the kid "winning" the small state had really accomplished what the others had? I know what my kids are thinking about other sports, I encourage them to play other atheletics because it will help all of our programs, and the coaches here work together. The athelete that you are talking about is very dedicated to wrestling and will put it first, and find times to do other sports in the spring, and I hope fall as well. Look at the post with state ranked kids participating in more that one sport. If its such a big deal why is Bellmont so good everyear? Nearly their whole lineup is in multiple sports. What about kids like Schendel, McCray, Novy, Mornue (sp) for you guys they all play other sports from what ive heard, and they seem to do just fine in wrestling.

I dont think this was a bad move, because in the end it is not changing the integrity of the state finals. As I said earlier I do understand a lot of what the class wrestling argument is trying to say. I also agree that it is good to give wrestlers more chances and oppurtunities at success, and advancing four definiantly does that. What I disagree with is that we need to expand the finals into a classed tournament because it is basically saying that you are worse because you go to a smaller school. I would even be for expanding the number who make it to state, but I do not think there should be seperations for classes. If we took 32 to state and the 16 extra kids that make it in are from big schools so be it. They are the 16 next best, they earned it. Also what about if a kid moves to a small school from a big school, like Braxton this year, he's had a good year, and hopefully it continues past Saturday. Was he at some disadvantage because he went from a bigger school to a smaller school? If we were classed wouldn't the fact that he was from a bigger school originally put all of the smaller school kids at a disadvantage?

Yeah but who said it is going to ever be classed. As a coach I have been to all of the IHSWCA clinics over the past three years and have never heard it brought up as an option by the IHSWCA leadership. I also feel that it is not even close to being a clear cut issue for the coaches. It will be very interesting to see how the results of the surveys taken at sectional come out, but would bet that the classed indivdual tournament will not be the favored opionion, and if it is, it will at least be an extremely close vote. There are alot of different opinions on this subject on this board, and more importantly held by coaches all across the state. I think that all of them are valide, and that coaches want what they feel is best for their kids, and the sport. I myself coach at a small school and have seen some of our top guys fall out of the tournament early, if it was classed we would have had a few extra kids make it to state, but in my opionion they had great seasons regaurdless, and by making it to the round to go in semi-state showed that they on an individual basis could contend with anybody in the state. We did not need to go against small school kids, we had 5 seniors last year that could compete with anybody, and this year we have a group of kids that can do the same, they may not get to state or win titles, but they compete hard and win or lose at least we know that we go out each time and compete against the best. That being said I feel that the team tournament should be classed, and have at least 3 classes to give every team a shot. I can see peoples points about class wrestling, but I think that while the non-class indivdual fans often times won't hear the class fans side, it is equally as close minded for those who want a classed tournament to just blow off everybody elses thoughts because they disagree with them. The fact is that no matter how you put it the individual touurnament is a one on one competion, and the reason for it is to find out who the best wrestlers are. It is not to be watered down, it is for the best of the best. Again it only takes an individual. The team portion is for the best TEAM, and that takes 14 guys, thus obviously smaller schools are at a disadvantage, and I think that most reasonable people could agree it should be classed. I think the real hot-botton issue is with the indidual tournament, and I think that there are arguaments for both sides of it, and honestly from reading the posts i feel that the non-class arguments are just as well thought out and make as much sense if not more that the classed arguments, but are shot down by a close-minded but louder minority.