BlackshirtD

Frankie Porras?? Anyone know whats shaking with him?

It seems like the Hobart crowds go in waves. In the 70's and early to mid 80's it was huge with some really good teams(Burky's Boys) It kind of died down for a few years then the crop that really got the Hobart Freestyle club on the map came through in like 89-94..very good teams and drew a big following..It died down again then from like 97-01 it was big again with some of the greatest Brickie teams and wrestlers came through and in 99? Could have won a title falling just short in the Semi's to Mater Dei..another few years where it wasn't as big..Then came the Cosgrove,Galka and eventually Porras teams which had good crowds as well..not as tough total team wise but great individuals..Last couple years have been fairly quiet but I expect that to change with a pretty solid team coming back and the addition of Super frosh Scottie Sopko I'd expect some big crowds again at Hobart...and following them on the road....All through the 90's the Hobart Portage matches were insane..even the years Portage was head and shoulders better the crowds were big and rowdy...great rivalry that I think is really missed at Hobart once they changed conferences.

Congrats Bobby!!!

Ayala 126, Rodriguez 160? , Sopko 60 or 70 for the Brickies

Mater Dei for sure although and maybe it's just the fact they don't have as many kids in the finals anymore so maybe they aren't quite as loud as they used to be but still by far....but seems like Cathedral fans have closed the gap a little ..still ther is Mater Dei and everyone else.

I'm not saying that is the plan, or even a plan..I guess my point is It's not the Ihsaa's sport and you can creatively crown a state champion or 3 within their guidelines and even in spite of them..If it worked believe me they would eventually put their name on it or legislate that it is theirs. I mean look you guys ranked 3 classes of teams this season even though the Ihsaa does not recognize classes in wrestling. Sometimes I think you have to show the Ihsaa what you want..you can fill out surveys and take polls but at the end of the day if you can keep in compliance and get organized..show them this is what we want and we are doing it. I know not likely...but if you believe in it, and you believe in the growth of the sport try some different approach...I know it's a pipe dream..just a thought.

As I was reading the Ihsaa Survey something occurred to me. The Individual Tournament is so loved by everyone and honestly that is the spectacle that many make the trip every year for even if they have no pony in the show. Team State suffers I believe attendance wise by folks not able to spend another weekend down in Indy and given the choice between a weekend at the Fieldhouse or a day in Center Grove gym it's a no brainer. The Ihsaa does not want to classify Team State and in fact it look as though they want to eliminate it. Now the Coaches trophy gets handed out even though the Ihsaa does not sponsor it. Well what if.From the beginning of the season you start your quest for a State title..with as many classes as the Coaches association see fit. You could set it in any format you wanted really. It would take alot of coordination, and cooperation between coaches, principals, and Ad's..A tournament Series starting from the beginning of the season. I understand so many schools have annual tournaments they keep both individual and team, and certainly nobody would want to upset that. Keep a flex type schedule so I'm from Hobart so say Hobart gets eliminated in a Sectional or whatever you would like to call it. Guess what say Michigan City had a dual tournament that next weekend that Portage was supposed to be at..Portage advances and Hobart slides into their spot. Obviously there are some tournaments you just don't mess with like Al Smith etc. but With creativity and want to you can do something..unofficially official State Champions. Have the State Championships at the end of January. Have them rotate. The Ihsaa can't do anything about it because they are scheduled tournaments....ex. Jan 20th..The Indiana Coaches Association Dual Championships..at New Castle....And at Center Grove..and at Carmel High..each a different class championship..I have no idea if this even makes sense but it is your sport and as long as you stay in the guidelines of the Ihsaa you can do what you want with it..If they "frown upon it" so be it..They cannot stop it because it's just a school hosted tournament. So what if they don't recognize it. They commission the sports in Indiana, and regulate them..they do not own them. The schools and kids own their sport..Make it what you want it to be. It can be however you create it to be and if you cannot get schools and coaches to come together then ultimately there is your answer...it wasn't worth keeping.

I meant Angel I was thinking about Andre Hernandez for a minute Angel..and of course Reece as well..maybe Bradley too while we are at it few more..Meyers..Vega, Schaeffer, McMurry(Ramos because I bias and I love the kid)haha.amd good point about Weinzapel..forgot about him 10yrs..so many matches but I still say the guys that Jason went through as a frosh. are overall deeper...Maybe afetr next year I'll have more idea..when the body of work is complete..good calls guys

Ok this is my opinion which means nothing but alex I don't think had that signature win...How do you say that when all his matches were wins..I'm not saying that he would not have won state if he was a freshman the year earlier. I don't know that he would have beaten a Bobby Howard every time they would have met, or I can't remember if he was at 125 but if he was would he beat Srs. Alex Ramos, Bobby Jo Maldonado, and Rene Hernandez every time he met them which would have been several times. Jason beating Casche Quiroga was a signature win.now..does that make him better? I don't know I just was adressing the undefeated part that some have brought up. Alex seemed impossible to takedown..where Jason may leave himself open for more attacks. Alex was probably the better rider, and he seemed like he scored a lot on other peoples offensive attempts..He did have that quick twitch like has been said. Jason seems like he is more diverse on how he comes after an opponent, and more aggresive. I'm gonna take Jason only because he seems to have a little more funk, and intagibles but they are 2 of the top 5 wrestlers in Indiana history. I mean if there was a Mount Rushmore (barring Jason not wining out) I'd have Ellis,both Tsirtsis,Howe, and Andre on there. Oh I guess I better have Mauer on there too huh..mount Rushmore keeps expanding but at any rate..I just think that as a freshman Jason had alot stiffer compettition than Alex..You can't go wrong either way..some people like Ribeyes, some like filets, some like NY Strip..at the end of the day they are all steak...And I'd take any of them if you are cooking...The other reason I'd take Jason is because he has possibly the greatest Indiana wresstler ever as a big brother..and that is part of the intangables.

Practice partners mean alot..you see often clusters of kids making it to state from a school within a weightclass of one another. Don't sleep on Johnny Pud though he's got a pretty mean cement mixer.

I still do not understand why we can't talk about a classed team state without having to bring up classing the individual one. Why not fix the one that needs fixing the most. Y2 you are passionate and I respect that but I'm starting to really think that your ideas of growing the sport are for your own agenda. Why can there not be baby steps..why can we not work toward classing the team title which MOST people agree on...but not the individual which MOST people are in conflict about and I'd venture to say not in an overwhelming majority favor of. I should not say for your agenda..that is not giving you the respect you deserve, because I do believe you want this sport to grow..you obviously love this sport and where you think you can get to..and I think someday a classed individual tourney could be a welcome addition..but right now that doesn't seem to be the one the IHSAA is the least bit worried about and it is the one beloved and romaticized about by all wrestling fans..it's the one people are reluctant about messing with. I will stand by my belief as you do yours..but neither one has anything to do with fixing a team state that most agree needs the class. Would you not want Garrett to be able to compete for a wrestling title..as a team..14 wrestlers...against 14 wrestlers from another school relative in size...because your beliefs that the individual..INDIVIDUAL..should too be classed...I don't know what one has to do with the other..I don't get the all or nothing attitude. I'm not worried about cheapened titles, or whatever..I just think that individual is individual..team is team...teams need to be placed against schools their size because of the amount of athletes that are available to them..but if an individual on that team is the best in the state that is on him..We don't class freestyle, and folksyle state...they don't class nationals..or fargo..why would we do that for our wonderful state tournament that it seems that most people love. ( I realize I am not a coach, and certainly not from a small community or in touch with what coaches from small communities feelings are on this) I am friends with coaches from small 1 A and 2A programs that have never expressed wanting any change other than giving them the opportunity to compete at the team level.

I think all this talk is interesting, but in the end I think you need to take it one step at a time..and it could be a lengthy process. Team State..obviously what do you have to do to fix it...butts in seats..what puts butt in seats? More teams involved classed or not. Classed seems to make the most sense. I would definetly not propose more than 2 classes the first time around. As far as the individual..this is the one that would be quite difficult to get changed. The Ihsaa is not going to be inclined to tinker with something that they know they will make a decent amount on. The arguement of the classes there to add more fans is logical, but could be a fleeting thing..like the hoops tourney attendance. What I mean is the fans that went every year without even having a team in the finals..they stopped going they they had before because it lost it's specialness. For my money there is nothing greater than the individual finals. It is a show that people go to see and to tinker with it might ruin it for the casual fan. I think there will come a day when the IHSAA will have to class it. I just don't think that is a topic that spending the energy on at this time is very beneficial. Walk first..do what you have to class and save the team state..I have felt, and I do feel the INDIVIDUAL portion should remain in tact...that being said some arguements have opened my ears..but I believe and I think there are many more that truly believe tinkering with the individual finals would be a mistake...I know people that don't even care for wrestling but still go down for the spectacle of the finals..It's a great event...I absolutley respect all of your opinions on classing individual state..and I understand...but I just think if the energy is focussed on the team state aspect..and get it to catch on...maybe you sell it to the naysayers like myself for the individual. You can show numbers all you want about other states and their incomes from their tournament, but I would imagine the IHSAA in their lust for the mighty dollar would have explored this financially already. I appreciate the passion for the classing, but I also feel like if you don't share that opinion on this board you are made to feel like a lesser contributer, or somehow less of a fan, or even ignorant and I don't think that is going to help convince people to change their minds on this. All I'm saying is it seems like the wheels are spinning on this topic..Saving the team state should be paramount..and if it is agreed for the most part that classing it could do such a thing then ALL of the focus should be on that aspect for now..sell that to the Indy boys first..then..once things are rolling..get your energy on the individual one if neccessary. I just have a feeling if you can't get the team classed and most importantly saved..you won't get the other one. It's like all or nothing to some people on here and the same people who want to grow the sport seem like well if they are not going to class the team then they SHOULD just end it..that seems self serving to me and has nothing to do with growing the sport. Never stop fighting for what you believe in..but when it's not falling the way you want...and if you really want to make change..start small..small victories lead up to winning the war. Work on wrestlebacks if that what you see fit..work on the Ihsaa on travel restrictions that prohibit teams from competing all over...do whatever you can to make it better..little by little..but man it just seems like on here if you don't think the idividual tourney should be classed then you are dumb..just like the IHSAA is...and if you don't class the team state then it's not worth having...and if you are going to class it then automatically class the individual one...Love it for what is is, not for what it is not..but strive to make it better in the future..but give it a future first.

Porras is listed as the greatest from Hobart and I certainly think that is a fine choice..some may argue Cosgrove, or Galka..again you can't go wrong with any of them...for my money..no one dominated like Alex Ramos 2x and a 5th. The last time he lost was in the quarterfinals at state his soph. year..was unbeaten coming into that..and totally dominated his junior and senior years. As a frosh. he took 5 of 7 losses to state champ Leroy Vega who was a senior. He got caught in a headlock in the ticket round his freshman year and lost by a point..would have certainly been a 4 time place winner..to top it off wrestled one armed to All-American status at nationals. 148-8 overall...122-1 soph. jr. sr...I don't know for my money thats the gold standard at Hobart...xbrick 132 was a great champ as well...and a great coach ....magnet.

Y2, You know I think it was pretty cool that a coach came up and spoke with me, and for some reason I don't remember his name(it's been a long time.) I want to say Troxel? or something like that was his name but he talked to me about football as well, so he may have been an assistant of some sort..but at any rate it was a positive expirience that you are right..had I wrestled in another tourney that day I would not have had the meeting. I was no longer going to compete in wrestling, or football for that matter. Now he spoke to me about different grants that I could be qualified for and what not, but I remember from a couple other small schools that contacted me the cost of a lot of these very small schools without scholarship money is pretty costly. Point being not alot of kids may not be able to afford to compete at the small school level without more of a school commitment financially..where if they are going to financially commit more they are looking for a better product. I think looking at our small school rosters now they are littered with good talent that might be just shy of D1 level. Thats what I am talking about the evolution of it..it's been a long time so maybe my arguement loses validity about anyone who wants to wrestle in college can. I think if the state school extensions that are more affordable pick up teams then I do believe that mostr kids wanting to wrestle can still do it. I'm not sure am I answering your question? I hope I made sense.

great not grate..not sure how that even happens :-\

You can see the numbers anyway you want to percieve them..they are just a rorshach test,,However you see them you are right if you want to be. What I believe is this. Kids get on the map by wrestling for team indiana, or getting exposed to national tourneys. The more they get out there the more notice they get..as far as DI, I am talking. We could start a whole new arguement and start blaming Title IX for the lack of opportunities..again mostly at DI levels. The smaller schools have done a much better job of getting quality kids that weren't DI material than they used to do. Example I will use myself I had a pretty much awful record for my high school career..I weighed 152 and wrestled 171 because I couldn't beat our 152, or 160 lbers...again bad record..but freestyle I placed several times at state, and at a freestyle tourney at Wawasee that I won I was approached by the coach of Manchester and asked to come visit and take a look basically because I did well that day and had a H on my lettermans jacket..point is if you really want to wrestle in college you really can..at least walk on..small schools..Not a lot of kids want to go through it unless they are DI, and I've been seeing a lot of kids get Redshirted and hang it up at the big schools as well. My point is I cannot see how class wrestling improves our state. What I think does improve us is seeing Howe, Tsirtsis,Angel, and Reece succeed..As more kids identify with them they will want to be more like them..doing the camps, nationals..working harder to try to be them. I don't know what numbers actually back anything up, but I'd venture to say that I think Indiana is getting some pretty quality kids out there, and by the things they say on the Big 10 network talking about the massive improvement of Indiana wrestling. We were, and are like it or not seen as a basketball state, but thats a culture that can only be changed by getting out there and suceeding nationally in Fargo, and Viginia..etc. I just think the arguement being made for the classes based on the wrong idea of success. It seems like sometimes it's about Indiana exposure, and other times it's about a level playing ground for the kids..I mean which is it, and what arguement do you want me to support? I think more and more good wrestlers are coming back to coach..I mean last week it was a who's who of the past 20 yrs. at matside. As coaching evolves, and the kids learn what it takes to go to the next level then Indiana will get there. I have a buddy that that wrestled ..never made it to state, but wrestled for U Dubuque in Iowa..any rate he helped out a small school team out east..said the whole enviornment at the school was tough to deal with because the kids didn't really have the mentality of the mat being a battleground..It was just something they do..and the staff at the school..In no way demeaning to them just kinda let them carry on and didn't really push them, and it was grate to be 15-10 and one and done come sectionals. The culture at these small schools have to change..If that ever starts to happen then maybe look into classing it. I'm one of the many who are kinda on the line about the team tourney. i mean yes there are the Mater Deis to deal with, but if you must have a class team tourney some day whatever..But the individual tournament is special, and should be left alone..at least for the forseeable future, or until some one can actually put some numbers out that actually mean something. Not for nothing I admire the passion of Y2, and Karl..and I'm sure when they look at the stats it means something to them that I'm just not seeing at this point. Even if the class system never happens for you guys know that your efforts are admirable, I believe for the right reasons, and the betterment of all..I just subscribe the notion it is just change for change sake, like someone said you can't ever go back and this tournament is special..And even if the number don't prove it I think we are putting out a much improving product. Afterall it is all subjective.

You can always spot old wrestlers. Just watch for 2 guys who act like they haven't seen one another in a long time embrassing. Almost instantly you'll see an unconscience Whizzer slip in.

http://www.post-trib.com/sports/highschools/2043923,wrs-hill-0212.article Good story about a hard working Gary kid trying to advance to Indy. It's hard to believe it's been 18 years since any wrestler from Gary have advanced to the finals. Dwonne Williams from Gary Wirt is I believe the only state champ in the last 30 years winning it in 89' .

I met Zac at a CVS in Hobart. He was in the candy aisle so i started to pick on him about staying at 103lb s. You can't eat like the young guys, as you get old those calories are harder to get rid of being a sr. and all. He was a very nice kid..we spoke briefly and i wished him good luck..but he was a very humble kid.

3 matches stand out in my mind from this tourney ,cosgrove over McGill a few years ago, as well as Porras falling in yet another close one to Harper. the most memorable though was back in 94' unbeatean #1 Brian Kincaide of Hobart took on #2 undefeated Chris Snyder of Mishawaka..Snyder would win by criteria after the OT's..They flip flopped in rankings and seemed destined to meet in semi-state, and state finals..Kincaide dislocated his shoulder in practice before regionals..He wrestled one armed and won his first match then lost in the second round to a guy he dominated during the year, then again in the 3/4th plac. match. Kincaide took 3rd as a jr. but the injury ended his sr. campaign..Snyder would go on to win back to back titles.

McCubbins was just a beast..Brian Butler from Hobart was on the World team with him, and they battled a few times with Butler winning once or twice in freestyle, but McCubbins won Greco if I remember correctly..Thought for sure that the 91' finals were for sure another Butler v.s. McCubbins matchup but Brian was upset in the quarters..Whatever happend to McCubbins at Purdue..I went to six flags with him and Jeremy Rivas in like 94 when they were down there but I never got the scoop. I didn't know him.

Radnovich over powered and lateraled everyone he faced...Just the length of hummel and his own ability to throw would have been fun, but I truly believe Hummel would beat Radnovich...He was a fan favorite though..I remember those chants too..Talamentes is right there...I just went with moore/greer...The more I think about it i already voted for Maurer, the more I want McCubbins now..I think personally that there are some of the greatest wrestlers of all time in this past decade, but I agree that the 90's depth was too much. There were some guys in the 90's that were 1 timers that I personally thought were better than some of the guys on here...guys who did not even win state like a Gill Journey..1 timers Vinnie Gresham, Andy Trevino, Matt Graham,James Torres..Then there are some guys who just kinda split the decade like Ramos, Sheets, Freddie Joseph..Someone mentioned an 80's list. I think I only made it down in 88', 89 so I couldn't make that list seriously other than the obvious Lance Ellis, and Keith Davison.

oops look like i should have had imaginary wrestleoffs, for the imaginary teams, for the make believe meet.

Whats your favorite matches..I love hooper/coughlin...Mcubbins/Maurer...Humphrey /Meyers. Early on i am a little suprised that pat cassidy is getting no love v.s quiroga...some are not suprising like angel over Kerkoff which i agree with, but Kerkoff was sooo good, but Angel is Angel. I think Bradley/Ramos would have been a war..blood and guts match....I'm sorry to all the kids that never got to see how special Damon Hummel was..no 215 class when he was there. A 3rd place and 2 runner ups at Hwt. weighing maybe 210 at the very most...I love Irish Jake, but I truly believe Hummel would have not just won...stuck him.

Hopefully I did this right..I was reading an old post about the 90's team compared to this one, and i think it would be really close on who would win. There is nothing scientific it's all my op. on how to build the strongest team for each one..I'm sure you could change a guy here or there, but just for the sake of this..here is the match ups...again I hope this works right where you can vote for 14...if not then well i apologize in advance.