ENoblewrestling
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No matter how you feel about our current set-up and the importance of the team side we would be loosing the best way to determine a team champion. If we loose the duals either as they are now or a possible classed version in the future then we loose any reason to crown a team champion. If we go back to the old system it would be the same as crowning the basketball champ through a one-on-one tournament. It doesn't show the best team in any way at all. The team state is too important to loose if we care at all about a team side to the tournament.
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Well said
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The point is that they will be competing against teams their own size, and that fact alone will give them more hope. Realistically whats more difficult either in reality or perception having to build a team to beat garrett, or a team to beat Homestead? What I am saying is that at a small school its a lot easier to get the kids to rally around their chances of catching and beating Garrett every year for a sectional title, than it is to catching Homestead.
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I disagree. If it were classed I think that some of the teams that are at the bottom could see a new oppurtunity in a classed system. We finished in the top half of our sectional and the goal we have is to someday catch teams like Garret, Carrol and Whitko. Those teams would have or did beat us in duals by around 20 points last year. Given that our kids work and push to close the gap and become closer to those teams. While 20 points is a nice victory its not like we got completley blown out of the gym. So if our goal would be to close the 20 point gap to those teams, which year to year I feel is a realistic goal then why couldn't the teams that we currently beat by 20, or 30 points look at us and say that we can catch them? If it were a classed tournament the teams that the lower teams would have to catch would be the middle of the pack teams in the current format. Are there exceptions? Yes but that does not always have to be the rule. Take us and Prarie Heights as an example, last year they beat us by around 20, the year before it was a two point dual. This year they will be heavily favored and likely a top 5 ranked team in the 1A poll, so with that situation do I think we will never, ever be able to beat PH? No way we will work hard and someday get them. Teams have good and bad years, esspeacially at small schools, and I think that classing it, and making the top teams smaller schools would give all teams more hope and more oppurtunity to compete.
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Now that we are ranking by class let's keep track of the weeks events for all classes. If your team is in the third class list the dual/ event they are in this weekend. Thanks for the responses.
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Now that we are classing by class let's keep track of what teams in each class are doing. Just post where a 2A team is wrestling this weekend/week. Thanks for any additions.
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Given that we are going to start to rank by classes I think it would be a lot of help to know where the schools in the class are wrestling during the week/ weekend so we can get a better understanding of who should be ranked where through out the state. I also think this will help get the word out in the wrestling community about what our small schools are up to. So if you are a 1A team where are you wrestling this week? Thanks in advance for keeping us up to date.
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That may have been this case, I spoke from just the feeling that I have gotten from all talks that I have ever had with those who I consider knowledgable on the subject. My mistake, not trying to call you or anyone else out. Should have said I believe instead of I know. Either way i/have never felt in any encounters that I have had with the ihswca that classing one means the other would have to be. Maybe the case then, I don't think it would be today. Again I apologize for thinking I knew when apparently I did not.
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Can this classed team state format work ?
ENoblewrestling replied to thecomets's topic in Past Discussions
You know Y2 sometimes I start to debate with you on here because you attack everything that I bring up. I acctually dont think the four team break down would be too bad. I guess I didn't realize who all would be in each class. Your still looking at a 77 or 78 team class which would still provide a competitive tournament. While I would prefer the three team, the four team is a viable option as well. I do think that the 2 team is not a big enough breakdown to really cause change. The tournament that started this discussion I dont see as viable because of the seeming randomness of the breakdown of teams. Why would one class be larger than the other? -
Can this classed team state format work ?
ENoblewrestling replied to thecomets's topic in Past Discussions
What about from a competitive statndppoint? I feel that all three divisions would be very competitive and have some quality wrestling under the three team format. Under a four team that bottom classs could be pretty weak and feature a few forfiets even in the finals. Your propsal would also take 16 more sectional sites than mine would. They all have flaws you could find in them. Why are you only going after this propsal? Is it the structure (sectionals, regionals, state) or are you just against the 3 class set-up? -
Can this classed team state format work ?
ENoblewrestling replied to thecomets's topic in Past Discussions
You would only need three mats, with 7 and six team sectionals there would be a bye for one team in each sectional thus you would only have three opening round match-ups. For a seven team sectional you would have one bye in the opening round and need 3 mats, six teams two byes and two mats. -
Can this classed team state format work ?
ENoblewrestling replied to thecomets's topic in Past Discussions
I will throw mine out there for consideration. 3 divisions 103 teams per division Wrestle a 6 or 7 team sectional (16 sectionals) Wrestle all of the sectionals in one night- it would be three rounds, think an eight team bracket The 16 sectioanls go down to eight regionals one match winner goes to state finals 8 teams at the finals in each class wrestle it out like we do now. This could realistically be done in a week, but we would need a bigger gym to have eight teams from three divisions there. I think the three classes would break it up enough, but not too much. I t would produce three very competitive events. Here is what I thought up for 1A with teams put into sectionals. http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,12319.0.html -
I said that the answers would be yes, I dont though feel that it would always make being a "true champion lessened" or "cheapen what it means to be a scetional champ". These are not things that are black and white. There is a lot of gray area. I think that the people generally feel that school sizes are a hinderance in a team setting. This would cause some to not think about or care about the fact that they are winning a classed team sectional. I feel that this is differant that the individual side. I was talking with a friend that is a track fan, he agreed with my basic idea, and summed up their individual side with the Idea that if "your fast, your fast" That is the way that some people (including myself to an extent) feel about the indivdual side, if your good, then your good and it doesn't matter what size school you go to. Once again why debate this with me, we disagree on it. Lets work to save team state, and quit bickering about the indivdual side.
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Why would what I feel about the indivdual tournament matter to your thoughts on the team tournament? We are not against eachother on this issue. The fact that we dont agree on the indivdual side should have nothing to do with your thoughts on the team side. To answer your question I would say that I have allready stated how I feel that the team tournament is different that the individual, and that even though the answer would be yes in some of these circumstances it would be worth it because of the disadvantages caused by school size and your ability to field a full strong roster. Thus i feel that for the team tournement a classes are needed to even out the playing field, and that in this situations any negatives would be overshadowed by the positives it would bring to the sport.
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Can this classed team state format work ?
ENoblewrestling replied to thecomets's topic in Past Discussions
I believe it was classed it would have to be done in equal numbers like the other sports. So something like 103 per class. -
It is my opinion that classing the team side is would fix something that is unfair, the fact that it is more difficult to fill a fourteen man roster at a small school than a big school. The indivdual side in my opinion is allready even, a one on one competition where the size of your school and the number of teamates do not make a difference on your success. It is indivdual. That is why I feel one should be classed in not the other. I nkow you disagree with me on this and that is fine. If you feel that I am wrong then that is your thoughts adn that works for me. Mater Dei is in the middle class according to the three team division, so not a small school, a medium sized school. You always state that they should e considered a bigger school than what they really are anyhow. It is also important to note that my personal feelings on the indivdual tournament have nothing at all to do with this debate. It does not matter how you or I feel about classing that side. We are trying to save the team state. Why does it matter if we disagree on indivdual? Dont you agree that a classed team state would be a good thing? Lets work for that.
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I feel this way toward the indivdual side, I feel that the team title is a different thing. We have been over this a million times. Despite what I feel I do not see why you would want to hurt the chances of a classed team tournament in any way by posting things that either are, or seem to be against the team tournament. If you feel that the best way to crown our champion is the indivdial tournament then that is fine, but if you think a team tournemnt that is classed is the best way to go about it then why try and fight and argue against it? This seems to be an issue that we can all get together on, and one that I feel we could still work together to get. This website and your views hold a lot of weight. I think that people are a bit confused on your stance on the issue, and if you would back what I think we both agree is right on the team side, then we could get something done. Just because we dont agree on the individual side that doesn't mean that we cant work together on what is best ofor the team side.
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Why are you against the team tournament being classed? I figured this would be something that we could all agree upon, so why don't you feel its a good idea? I did not know of the fact that classed teams had been voted on. I also don't know the setup of that tournament. I do know that the tourny would be very competitive and our 3 classes would have more teams per class than the basketball or football tournaments.
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I stand corrected, I did not know that.
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I dont believe this to be the case. Im not sure if we have ever proposed classing the team side, I do know that no one has ever said that we would have to class both if we classed one. I think that this idea comes more from the idea that we are still considered an Individual sport, and no individual sport has classing, this is despite the fact that we have a independent team aspect to our sport. I have heard this rumor as well that if we class one we have to class both, and this is not the case. I fear that some who feel this way are afraid of a really good thing happening ( classed team state) because they dont want the indivdual side classed. I hope we can all realize that the two could be different things and that they are not nesacarilly one in the same. Our association reps would be able to clarify what we have, and have not proposed in the past.
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Thanks, there are very few small wrestling schools down there so that will help my layout.
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The list just said christian accademy so I just figured it was. Does anyone know where christian academy is. Also which eastern is in this class?
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How is team state about egotism. Doesn't the team aspect of wrestling teach all of the things you listed and more? It also deals with every kid on the team not just the studs. Are the good kids the only ones we care to work for?
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Sectional 15 N. Knox N. Posey Wood Memorial Tecumseh S. Spencer Forrest Park Tell City Sectional 16 Lawernceburg Southwestern New Washington Prvidence Paoli Christian Academy
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Sectional 13 Guerin Catholic Indy ritter Speedway Indy Washington Cascade Monrovia Sectional 14 Covington Fountain Central N. Vermillion Rockville S. Putnam Cloverdale