ENoblewrestling

I am saying that the best kids should make it to state regaurdless of size. It is the state tournament, it is meant to be something that showccases the best kids. At the end of the day that is what happens the best man wins. Like I have said before when you have two guys who wrestle eachother, same mat same rules, that is about as fair as you can get. The team side is different as it takes fourteen guys not one. Small schools are not the "doormats' of the state their indivduals have the same chance as everyone elses it is just that a bigger school is more likely to have more top level kids, that does not mean it is unfair, its just the likelyhood of what will happen. What would be unfair in my opinion is forcing top level kids at small schools to wrestle in an inferior tournament. If smaller schools are the"doormats" of wrestling then you are saying that they would need their own tounrnament between all of the "doormats" thus they would be competing in an inferior tournament.

Scott Vlink- Crown Point and Brad Harper- Penn We are attempting to put together a poster for the team state finals. We also need some information from Bellmont, Perry Meridian, and Roncalli. If you know or talk to their coach or AD and could ask them to email me at samriesen1@yahoo.com that would be great. Thanks.

This is also the approximatly the same numbers as the total population of the schools. 75% of kids go to big schools, 25% go to small schools. In many people's opinions (mine included) random talent distribution would say that if 75% of the kids go to big schools than 75% of the qualifiers should be from big schools, thus the 25% of kids who make it from small schools is exactally what a random sample would produce, thus showing no correlation to some unfair advantage that big school kids have. Y2 and many others who support class feel that since 50% of the wrestlers entered in the tournament are from small schools and 50% from big schools that the number of qualifiers from both should be 50%. In my opinion this is skewing the stats because it does not take into account the fact that 75% of the total population go to big schools and 25% go to small schools so in many's opinion using the same data this 75/25 ratio is what you would be expected to get. In other words if you just randomly took kids from these two populations 75% of the time the more naturaly talented kids would come from big schools.

A 15th weight class would- 1. Get rid of the stupid tie breakers. We won three matches on about the ninth criteria. You would only need one criteria most matches won. 2. Allow you to keep a low weight for the really small kids while at the same time allowing you to get more of your middle wieght/ heavy kids into the line-up, which is what the weight class changes are attempting to effect. 3. It would water down wrestling a bit, but it is not the same as classing the entire tournament. You and I both know that. Im not against having more oppurtunities for wrestlers. I am against simply changing what it means to be a state qualifier and then thinking that you accomplished something that you truelly didnt.

I really think that is a good idea to get rid of all of the tie-breakers, but I think that a 15 weight class instead of 13 would be the way to go, more kids get varsity experiance that way. I have never thought about how adding/dropping a weight class would change the scoring.

If anyone could get me the following coaches email addresses please send them to me in a PM on this site, or to samriesen1@yahoo.com. Thanks, I need them for the meet the champions event at the team state. Thanks

In that situation there was not much else he could do.

I don't disagree with your idea but you have seen enough wrestling to know that stalls don't get called everytime a guy isn't trying to improve his position on top. He was warned once in the last 15 seconds. Are you saying that evertime a stalemate is called in positions like that it should be a stalling warning instead?

That would have been two stalling calls in the last 15 seconds. That was the first time that he had dropped to the leg like that during that match. I know we have both seen several matches were a guy continually drops to the leg, the first two stalling calls coming in 15 seconds is a bit much.

Even without the crossface? I do not argue that it wasn't close, but I don't think that reversal criteria was met without it. At least we agree it wasn't an escape.

The ref said that a crossface was needed foer the reversal, the picture says a crossface is needed as well. He didn't have a crossface and that is why it was not considered a reversal, it didn't meet the criteria.

The match had ended with no points being awarded. The second official changed the rulling on the mat. There is no question as to if Siddons lost the leg, he obviously had it still with his hands cleanched at the forearms. Neff is extremely tall and did wrap Siddons leg, it was not a situation were an escape is possible, it was close to a reversal but criteria was not met, that doesn't make it an escape. I will try to get video up later, it is on wellscountyvoice, mat four near the very end of the video.

I don't like to get on hear and complain about officiating, but I feel that the end of this match needs to be talked about. I wish to take nothing away from Mr. Neff and his accomplishments on the day, but would like to get others opionions on what took place. I have had several not involved with our program tell me it was the worst call that they had ever seen as there was no possible way to have an escape in that situation. The match ended in a situation were Neff had attemepted a standup, Siddons went to a leg and held it. Neff did step over Siddons leg, and had Neff had a crossface or his arms over Siddons reversal criteria would have been met, but it wasn't the match ended. I have never seen an escape given in a situation like this, it was either a revesal or nothing, and reversal critria was not met, the match essentially ended in a stalemate but for some reason an escape was awarded when Siddons had both arms around Neff's leg. At this point in the tournament points should not just be made up. I have never seen this called an escape. It was either a reversal or nothing, I asked the refs several times about why it was called an escape, one reason was that there was not time to call a stalemate so for some reason it became an escape. The other from the second official, who changed the score after the match was over, was that reversal criteria was nearly met, which it was not, so the escape was given. In my opionion they literally made up a point. Siddons lost the match in overtime but it went there do to a phantom point. Can anyone else give their opinions to what they saw take place at the end of that match?

Two quick thoughts. First why do you guys care about the reason that the big schools are now supporting a class team state? If you both want the same thing, but possibly for different reasons then dont fight about it work together to get it. It seems very childish to hope that the big schools learn a lesson by having us all lose team state. Second If classing the individual side causes such great growth in the sport then why hasnt it grown over the last 20-30 years? Les Gutches showed the info on how wrestling has not grown at all during that time period, and during that time period more and more states began classing. Shouldn't the 40 other states that class wrestling have caused the participation to grow a great deal? While during this same time period our tournament has continued to grow and expand, and I would argue produce more top level wrestlers. So why hasn't classing the sport caused our participation to grow?

That is fine but do you think that the IHSAA getting rid of the team duals is going to get us closer to having a classed team duals? How does going back to the individual tournament desiding the team champion help indiana wrestling?

As well as the coaches survey, and the cia clinic and meet the champs before team state. The committee to save team state was open to all members of the IHSWCA you could have joined or given your opinion on the subject of saving team state. Just complaining about what we have done does no one any good. The facebook idea was to get the word out to a lot of people, if you know of a better way to reach a lot of people please inform me. Again anyone who is in the IHSWCA or that is on this board is free to give ideas to get attendence up at team state so if you have any that would help the cause please share them. Not doing anything then complaining about it doesn't help anyone.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/sports/2011/02/08/latino-wrestler-grapples-life-struggles/#ixzz1DOVYXSuK?test=faces Not trying to start a political discussion, but here is a story that I just found. Interesting story if anything.

Any results in yet? This looks like a pretty competitive regional.

Sorry was using the IHSAA site to get the info. If you know of any changes let me know.

When is this info due? The weather has made getting transcipts a pain.

According to the IHSAA site it looks like most of these will be going on tonight. Good luck to all of the teams, fans get out there and support the sport. If any other delays happen please get them on here.

With all that has been said the past few days about the team state state series I feel that it is important to remember a few things. First of all we have not lost the team state series yet. Despite the many rumors and statements on this site we still have a chance of keeping a team state series. There are many things that we as a wrestling community can control, and many that we cannot. One of the main things that we can change is the preception that the team state series is unimportant to us. We can do this by attending the upcoming team regionals. I know that the weather is not helping any effort to get attendence up, but any coach, wrestler, and fan on this site and throughout the state can make a difference and help show that we are united and that we care about the team state series. I am sure that there are going to be many posts following this one that say that team state is allready finished, and that it doesn't matter if you go or not. Some can feel this way, but I hope that does nothing but encourage those of you who are going to attend an event and support Indiana wrestling to get in the seats for the team regionals. Why should we have a defeatest mindset? Where does complianing and quitting get us? We need to come together over the next few weeks on this situation, and we can at least show the IHSAA that team state is important. Despite what has been said earlier if we can show the event to be important and to be profitable there is a chance to save team state. If we can keep a team state, our chances of getting it classed someday improve greatly, which is something that I think most involved in wrestling would agree is a good thing. I know the weather will make getting there difficult for some, but if you can be at a team regional event get to one, and support team state. This is an oppurtunity for everyone involved with wrestling in the state to come together and show that we care. No matter what we are talking about wrestling here and we need to go down fighting.

This is according to the IHSAA site. Their site had no info about Adamas central, or Southridge being postponed. The AC info is on the here, does anyone know anything about Southridge?

1. Portage, Postponed to Thursday, 6 pm CT Match 1: Crown Point vs. Merrillville. Match 2: Munster vs. Portage. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 2. Jimtown, Postponed to Wednesday Feb. 9th, 6 pm ET Match 1: Warsaw vs. Jimtown. Match 2: Penn vs. Prairie Heights. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 3. Adams Central, Postponed to Wedensday, Feb 9th 6 pm ET Match 1: Bellmont vs. Yorktown. Match 2: Carroll (Fort Wayne) vs. Fort Wayne Snider. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 4. Logansport, Postponed to Thursday, 6 pm ET Match 1: Logansport vs. Eastern (Greentown). Match 2: Huntington North vs. Delphi. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 5. Zionsville, Postponed to Thursday, 6 pm ET Match 1: Hamilton Southeastern vs. Noblesville. Match 2: Southmont vs. Lawrence North. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 6. Martinsville, Postpned to Monday, 6 pm ET Match 1: Franklin vs. Avon. Match 2: Bloomington South vs. Perry Meridian. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 7. Shelbyville, Postponed to Wed, Feb. 9, 6 pm ET Match 1: Roncalli vs. East Central. Match 2: Columbus East vs. New Castle. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2. 8. Southridge, 6 pm CT Match 1: Castle vs. Jasper. Match 2: Jeffersonville vs. Evansville Mater Dei. Championship: Winner of Match 1 vs. Winner of Match 2.

With all of this being said I do not know the situation at Eastern. I do not know the extent of their injuries. I want to be clear that if a kid is hurt then he should sit. If they are sitting to avoid non-existant injuries, or dont care about the team state, or dont think they can win that is where the problem is. I do not know what they said or talked to Bobby Cox about. It is not my "wish" to have them wrestle all of their regional qualifiers, if their guys are able to go they need to wrestle, if they are hurt they shouldn't be forced to wrestle. I didnt make my self clear earlier, and was reacting to the statements that were made which made it seem as though healthy kids did not want to wrestle in the team series to avoid being hurt, which is wrong. I have no clue on the extent of the injuries at Eastern and feel bad for their kids with real injuries. As far as questioning what is best for his team your putting words into my mouth. Again if his kids are really hurt it is different than if they are choosing to sit them out.