ENoblewrestling

This may have all ready been changed if a team got moved, so I apologize in advance if a team got moved that I have not heard about. If nothing has changed from last year and with the closing in the past few years of Harding, and Elmhurst there will be a large difference in the number of teams entered into the two Fort Wayne sectionals. If you look at the Fort Wayne Semi-state the breakdown of teams goes as follows Elk. Memorial-8 Westview- 10 Carroll- 11 New Haven- 8 Peru-9 Oak Hill- 10 Jay County-9 Delta-10 This may not seem like a big difference but if you look at the numbers a kid entered into the New Haven sectional would have a 50% chance of making it to the regionals, while a kid entered into the Carroll sectional would have a 36% shot. This is something that could be easily changed by simply moving one team from Carroll to New Haven. The travel would be a minimal difference and the percents would change to New Haven 44%, Carroll 40 which is a much more even field. I did not know if school closings have caused any other situation like this, or what the protocal is for sectional realignments but it seems that this is something that the IHSAA needs to look into.

I assume that most of the schools listed on the coaching changes thread have hired coaches seeing that practice starts tomarrow, but they are not listed. Just curious if anyone has any info on who the new head coach is at some of these schools, or if they have even been able to find one. Prarie Heights Southmont Southwood Switzerland County Howe School Whiting These ones are not listed but either will or at least were rumored to have a change. Bluffton Fairfield Leo Some pretty good programs are on that list, add others if you know of any.

We do this at Busco, so does the Basketball team. The football coaches really encourage their kids to either wrestle or play basketball because we all do asimilar weights program (BFS). In turn we push our kids to run track, because they also do the same lifts. If they do three sports they will be lifting in the same program all year long. The problem that I have seen is that many wrestling coaches dont feel that BFS helps for wrestling. While it may not be perfect it does produce really strong atheletes. I personally would rather have the kids out for the team than to fight over which types of lifts they will do. One of our football coaches was willing to draw up a list of wrestling specific auxillary lifts to go along with the BFS core lifts. It works pretty well for us. I think anouther issue that football and wrestling coaches butt heads on is weight cutting. This to me is just as big an issue as the lifting is. I personally dont push our kids to cut, but many do it on there own. We have not had any real issues with it, but I could see how a football coach wouldnt be really thrilled about that aspect of wrestling.

Busco should have about 25-30 kids on our wrestling team. 17 to 22 of them are football players.

I know that there have been a lot of these recently, but I wanted to get some feedback from the wrestling community on an all-in tournament that could be completed with relatively few "big" events, most of the tournament would actually be single duals, and it would still only take four rounds, just one more than the current three which I see in most all in setups. Setup 4 classes- 78 teams per class This style of tournament is easier to ?picture? if you think of it as being similar to the NCAA Basketball tournament. It would run pretty much with a 64 team bracket with a few ?play-in? games. Round One: Each class would have 32, two or three team duals (three team would simply mean that one team would get a bye and wrestle after the first two teams match, same place, same evening). The opening round matches would be determined by the IHSWCA. Instead of having a set day for the duals, they would simply need to be wrestled by the 2nd weekend in December. This would be easy for the AD's to get set-up , duals are much easier to organize than multi-team events. Round Two: After this opening round we would wrestle a second round dual between two first round winners. These matches would have to be wrestled by the 4th weekend of December this would give the AD's two weeks to set up a single dual, which is plenty of time. Round Three: At this point there would be 16 teams left per class. For this round I would have four, four team events at set locations, on a set date around the state. These would be similar to our current team regional?s (two matches one night). At this point we would be down to the final four per class. Final Four: The finals would take place at a High School in Indianapolis. Four mats, three rounds. First round, 1A and 2A semi-finals. Second round 3A, 4A finals. Third round state finals in all four classes being wrestled on each mat. This final event would take the same amount of time as the current finals do and the gym would be rocking with all four finals going on at once. Advantages- I see this as a fairly simple tournament to run. It will allow all teams to participate. It will give the A.D.?s some leeway in scheduling. It will also bring back the weeknight dual, which is something that many in our sport agree we need more of. Duals are easier to run and hold than multi-team events. Teams would never have to wrestle more than two matches in an evening. Only would take up one weekend. Disadvantages- Possible travel time issues later in the tournament. Getting the IHSAA to allow the extra duals. All teams would have to participate. The finals would interfere with events on the date that they were set-for. Some teams may not be 100% from football for the first round events. I think this version seems pretty reasonable, but I am bias to it so please let me know what you think.

Here is a set up that would get the entire tournament done with minimal "big" events. The biggest hurdle would be the IHSAA allowing us to spread the tournament out over three-four events, instead of just one big one. Tournament would be 4 classes 77, and 78 teams per class. Each classes tournament would go as follows: Round 1- 32 sites, two or three teams per site (77 teams would be 13 sites with three teams, 19 with two. 78 teams would be 14 sites with three teams, 18 with two.) Round 1 could be done on a week night in December. It would either be a single dual, or two duals on the evening. That would take you to 32 teams. Round 2- 32 remaining teams wrestle a single dual, that takes s to 16 teams Round 3- 16 teams wrestle a dual that takes us to the finals 8 Round 4- Final 8 wrestle a similar event to what we have now. This style would get allow us to spread the tournament out. It would allow for minimal problems for A.D.'s your essentially adding three duals. You could keep cost low, and all teams could be involved. You could easily drop a round in this format to shorten the event by one week if need be. It would also bring back the popularity of week night duals.

I believe that in the past y2 put up an all in format that would take one week. It would be four classes. I can't recall what all his involved, but if you look at the math you could have four classes, 16 sectionals, for lack of a better term, per class. 4 to 5 teams per sectional. You could wrestle that on a Tuesday. Each of the 16 winners would then wrestle in 8 regionals on a Thursday, final 8 would wrestle in the finals. Pretty straight foward, and gets it done in a week. It would take a lot of officials, sites, and scheduling to get accomplished, it would be an awsome event though. Coach W has some interesting ideas as well, I think that the more ideas that we get put out, the better the chances of finding the right fit for the event. Y2 and Karl I've seen some good ideas on this kind of stuff from you guys in the past, what do you think could work? What about genius rankings, or a bcs style formula? Or inviting the top 16, or 32, or 6r per class instead of an all in? What about number of classes? Personally I think three or four would give the right division classes, and representation. What about locations, all of this will have to be taken into account by the IHSWCA, what ideas do you guys have, if we are positive and proactive about this it could be a really great thing for us.

In the survey that was taken only around 30 percent of the coaches were for classing the individual side, I would think that would be a huge reason that it is not going to happen. As far as the team side hopefully we can get a top event from the ihswca. Look at the ihswca update thread, it gives more details on what's being discussed here.

It sounded as though they were allright with it, it would be ,more of a "state title" I guess, but better than nothing.

At the spring coaches clinic it was announced that things do not look good for the team dual tournament being held by the IHSAA in the future, it looks as though next year will be the last year for it. While obviously this is a bad thing, it does leave the possibility for something good to come of it. It sounded as though it will be possible for the IHSWCA to set up their own event that will be similar in scope to the team tournament- finding a dual meet state champion. While it sucks that it will not be IHSAA sanctioned, it is very possible that this event could be seen as just as legitimate a state title as the IHSAA one as it would be decided by a whole team not indivduals, and will involve our best teams Another thing that could be great about this is that the tournament could be ran how the coaches want it to be. It could be classed, all-in, invite only, however the coaches association chooses it to be. It will obviously take ALOT of planning, cooperation, and work, from the IHSWCA, coaches, AD's, and the wrestling community, if it works out though it could really be great as we could have the best of both worlds, a classed team tournament, our great individual tournament, and we would have the top team in the individual tournament recognized as well. So that leaves a lot of planning and ideas that will need to be sifted through. I feel it makes for a great discussion topic on a board like this as we will now have an opportunity to use our ideas to run this event. So what are your ideas, how would you run such an event? What are some ways that we could make this work? I have seen lots of ideas on here in the past, lets get some of them out there and see what comes of it.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/New-Jersey-wrestlers-turn-to-hypnosis-in-push-fo?urn=highschool-328306

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Wrestler-banned-from-championships-for-forgettin?urn=highschool-328885

Where did you get that info at? Also why should we care it is still a large majority who wants to see it changed, their attitudes may be able to be changed if those who are for a classed team state stay focused and work together to get it.

Couldn't agree with you more Karl. It seems to me that a classed team state is a plausible thing. We need to work together on this, it is something that a vast majority of the coaches that I have talked to agree with. I know at smaller schools, and I would imagine bigger schools, the parents and fans talk to the ad's and principals quite often as well, this is something that the whole wrestling community needs to come together on and I think we could achieve it Karl. I dont get to say this often enough on here but great point and wahoo to you Karl.

When you say ALL teams have a "shot" does that mean a classed team tournament or something else? I feel that a three or four class tournamnet gives everyone a shot. Some feel even that would be unfair as certain teams will still dominate. No matter what not all teams will be able to win it all, some teams are better than others and it is impossible to stop that from happening, heck it would be unfair to our top teams if we would go back to the indivdual tournament deciding it. I get a laugh whenever I hear a coach bring up that the old system is more fair because you just need a few top guys to win it, that's a joke, that's not winning a team championship its winning a system.

The track coaches should be fighting for a dual champion. That would be a great event. Could you imagine a head to head with Snider and Lawrence North for example, you have to admit that would be a pretty sweet event. I'm sure it would be awsome as a classed team event too, I don't know enough about small school track, but I know we have a pretty tough small school team at Busco Also didn't Harding either win or finish second in girls track with one or two girls at the finals. That is the kind of situation that we would be in. Indian Creek would have been state runner ups, and they finished 5th at sectionals. They had great indivduals but how is it fair that they be state runner ups over teams that are obviously better?

I agree with you that all kids should be and will continue to be worked with. I think the bigger problem is that we would be crowning our team champion in a way that doesn't show how the top team is, we might as well not even have a team champion if our way of crowning the champ only would involve 3 to 8 out of a 14 man team.

If it was broken down into three classes there would be a lot of parity in the first class. 2a would also have teams like Belmont and New Pal. I think trhat classing it would effect a lot more teams than you would think.

No, not at all. Its all a lot of rumors at this point. It is not officially done, a lot of people are hearing that may be pretty far from the truth acctually.

I passed out the team state survey to all of the coaches who hadn't filled it out yet, they all seemed to care about it. No matter what we will have a team champion, what do you feel is the best way to deside it? What way would be better for Indiana than the duals?

Y2 seems to forget that his team could have easily won the carroll sectional in two of the past three seasons. He also fails to mention that a small school won that sectional in two of those three years, his team has had plenty of chances they are extremely competitve.

Tha is a verygood point. Not sure if you could stop that problem.

Coach Snyder is right. This is one of our two most important events in Indiana High School wrestling. Make sure you get out there and support it. Even if you think there is no chance to save it get to the finals and go down with a fight. Either way if you have never been to it, the team state finals are awsome. I would argue for a spectator that there is as much if not more electricity in the gym for the team state finals as there is at Conseco, great event to watch. The clinic tonight should be an awsome event as well great chance to learn from a great coach and meet some outstanding teams.[ftp][/ftp]

Just a thought here. Obviously the classed fans, and the one class fans are miles apart when it comes to the individual side. So last night I was thinking of some kind of compramise that would work for both groups. Im still a fan of a one class tournament so I havent taken the time to figure out teams per sectional or anything like that but here is what I thought up. What I would propose as a compromise would be a two or four class tournament that came together at the state level to crown the top 8 wrestlers, this way we would get the even representation that the class supporters want and the deserving top placers that the one class group wants. This format would need to take 32 to state in order to make sure the deserving wrestlers in both classes make it. You would wrestle a two class sectional, regional, and semi-state. At the four semi-states you would end up with the top four wrestlers in the two classes, similar to our current format, these would be your state qualifiers. Then at the finals the two classes come together and wrestle a state finals simalar to what we have now, with the exception that it would have 32 kids and you would need to win twice to place. You could even have it so that a class AA #1 would wrestle a class 1 A# 4, thus giving small school guys a better chance to place. In a tournament like this you would get the representation that class fans want, and the top wrestlers that the one class want. I feel it would be a better option than a battle of classed champions at the end of the tournament, we would still have the true top eight this way, and schools of all sizes would get the experiance of having finalists. You could do a similar style of tournament with four classes were the top two advance in each of the four classes, but I feel that this version would really hurt the oppurtunity of many of the top kids esspecially in the bigger schools. So there is my Idea, let me know what you think, rip it to shreds for all I care, im still a one class guy, but it seems like a pretty fair compromise to me.

I believe that 103-140 all have a champ or a runner up returning. Some weights have both returning, some are even deeper seeing that Phillips was a two time champ and finished third he wouldn't even be counted in those figures. lLots of good ones coming back in the lighter weights. 145 You have Richey coming back, 52 runner- up Mullins, 60 3rd place Willis, 71 3rd place Lynde, 89 Sliga 3rd, 215 and Hwt were mostly seniors. Lots of top guys are gonna be back next year, and that doesnt factor in weight changes by the wrestlers, and possible weight class changes. If the classes change 138/145 would ber pretty loaded.