NickS
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Everything posted by NickS
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I bet you're wrong. Well I don't know where you're from but wrestlers from my area aren't trying to cheat the system. Ask Y2, Karl, or other coaches who regularly come onto these boards if they think the weight regulations have worked. Are these regulations perfect? No, but they are much better than just letting kids run rampant with "crazy weight cutting." Also, how many kids have died since the implementation of weight programs? As far as I know, zero. Do a google search. I bet the last case you find of kids dying as a result of weight cutting was '97 or '98 (before weight regulations). So that's a sign that the system is working.
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I bet you're wrong. Well I don't know where you're from but wrestlers from my area aren't trying to drastically cheat the system. Ask Y2, Karl, or other coaches who regularly come onto these boards if they think the weight regulations have worked. Are these regulations perfect? No, but they are much better than just letting kids run rampant with "crazy weight cutting." Also, how many kids have died since the implementation of weight programs? As far as I know, zero. Do a google search. I bet the last case you find of kids dying as a result of weight cutting was '97 or '98 (before weight regulations). So that's a sign that the system is working.
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I'm sure there are some kids who do find loopholes in their weight programs and "cut crazy weight." But I believe that the number of kids cutting crazy weight today is probably far less than what was happening 10-15-20 years ago. I bet the majority of kids follow their weight programs to a t.
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I agree with the hydration tests. Maybe not every weigh-in, but at least 2-3 during the season and at every level of the state series.
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I'd agree with you if every kid knew how to properly cut and manage their weight. But since most kids are ignorant on what's healthy for their bodies, weight regulations is the way to go. I understand the willingness to make sacrifices in order to succeed. But kids have unecessarily died because of these types of sacrifices, therefore there needs to be weight regulations. Sometimes wrestlers need to be protected from themselves.
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Well, there's your answer Farmboy. Michigan State was better.
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Well Michigan State did have a national champion while North Carolina had no AA's. But this is not very indicative on who had the better team. ;D
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I put these #'s together from combining all the grade levels. I'm pretty sure that the # of entrants is off a little. For example, Collin Palmer from Ohio is listed as signed up although he didn't actually compete. Indiana did well finishing 10th overall. What else I find interesting is that no state finished ahead of Indiana that had fewer entrants. [table] State PA NY NJ CA OH VA NC FL CO IN MO MN WV GA IL MD SD MI AL UT WA TN IA SC KY AZ KS AK TX NE WY DE NM OR LA MA ID OK CT WI NV ND MT NH VT ME RI # of Entrants 261 263 219 123 119 167 157 55 43 38 51 59 40 104 34 75 13 39 45 51 31 41 13 52 38 45 33 32 31 30 15 27 21 24 27 26 16 13 61 9 10 5 15 9 3 4 5 Total Points 903.5 806 756.5 538.5 481 400 393 307 290 269 263.5 250.5 231.5 223.5 212 195 176.5 170 167.5 165.5 164 161 153 152.5 150 149.5 143 141.5 139 135 119.5 118.5 112 101 83.5 82.5 72.5 69.5 62 59 57 56 55 45 20 19 9 [/table]
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Updated State Qualifier Data for the past 12 years
NickS replied to Y2CJ41's topic in Past Discussions
I concur here, I feel that we need to grow the sport through the team aspect. A school and community can rally behind a team, but it's very hard to do so for a few individuals. -
Updated State Qualifier Data for the past 12 years
NickS replied to Y2CJ41's topic in Past Discussions
What are the inconsistencies with Indiana? The 3 to 1 ratio with big schools to small schools. If there can be data to prove that OH, PA, IL are closer to even on their big school to small school ratios. Then MAYBE a class system would be the way to go for Indiana. But like I said, compiling the data would be rather difficult since they're classed. But I'm under the belief that they have the same issues in those states as we do in our state. The difference is their systems hide that discrepancy, our system reveals it. Why is the 3 to 1 ratio of state qualifiers inconsistent? There are 3x as many students at big schools and therefore it is likely that 3x as many state caliber athletes attend big schools. Wouldn't you then expect them to have 3x as many state qualifiers? Inconsistent compared to other states I was getting at. For example if OH, PA, and IL were virtually even (hypothetical of course) then Indiana would be proven to be inconsistent with those other 3 states. -
Updated State Qualifier Data for the past 12 years
NickS replied to Y2CJ41's topic in Past Discussions
What are the inconsistencies with Indiana? The 3 to 1 ratio with big schools to small schools. If there can be data to prove that OH, PA, IL are closer to even on their big school to small school ratios. Then MAYBE a class system would be the way to go for Indiana. But like I said, compiling the data would be rather difficult since they're classed. But I'm under the belief that they have the same issues in those states as we do in our state. The difference is their systems hide that discrepancy, our system reveals it. -
Updated State Qualifier Data for the past 12 years
NickS replied to Y2CJ41's topic in Past Discussions
It does. But the data you have provided indicates that whatever advantages/disadvantages big schools give an individual are in the aggregate netted out against the advantages/disadvantages small schools give an individual. Maybe its because a good number of small schools are exploiting the advantages available to small schools and a good number of big schools aren't exploiting the advantages available to big schools. Your numbers indicate that in the aggregate it's all netting out so that there is no advantage to being an individual from a big school. My point is that the numbers you have compiled don't indicate any unfairness and they don't indicate that attending a big school causes an individual 3x as likely to be a state qualifier. Also, information needs to be compiled on other states with class (preferably the power states like OH, PA, IL) to prove that there's inconsistencies with Indiana. The problem is, those states are classed, so compiling the information would be rather difficult. -
Updated State Qualifier Data for the past 12 years
NickS replied to Y2CJ41's topic in Past Discussions
The problem with the "3 to 1 ratio" argument is that it's not enough information to use to suggest our system is broken. Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Illinois could very well have the same 3 to 1 ratio between "big schools" and "small schools." The problem is we'll never know. -
Like that has been stated before, these numbers are only a correlation and there are some exceptions with non-IHSWCA members. But what the numbers do hint at, is the IHSWCA coaches are more driven to build stronger programs. Now the question is why?
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It'll always be a problem, which is unfortunate, because everybody is driven by different motives. From the school I'm from, I've heard of cases in which the football team would try to gobble up athletes from our wrestling team (maybe others from other sports too). They'd do this with the promise of varsity time or whatever. So our guys would leave wrestling to play football full-time, because it was just too enticing of a proposition to pass up. What happens when it comes time for football games, our guys would be sitting on the bench. Real classy huh?
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I'm sure there are some non-members that work hard on their programs. But it's only logical (in my mind) that if you put 24/7/365 work into your program, that you're going to get involved with the IHSWCA. If your not putting in a ton of work into your program, you're less likely to be involved with the IHSWCA.
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Let's try not to make this too much of a class thread please. My main emphasis is on IHSWCA vs. non-IHSWCA, not big school vs. small school.
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I came across some interesting #'s when looking at the IHSWCA member's list (thanks by the way Y2) and combined it with the state qualifier #'s compiled on another thread by Y2. 132 schools have at least one IHSWCA member, 74 are "big schools" and 58 are "small schools." From the past 12 years of state qualifiers... 1645 qualifiers come from IHSWCA member schools - 12.46 average 1042 qualifiers come from non-IHSWCA member schools - 5.86 average 1271 qualifiers from IHSWCA "big schools" - 17.81 average 714 qualifiers from non-IHSWCA "big schools" - 8.81 average 374 qualifiers from IHSWCA "small schools" - 6.45 average 328 qualifiers from non-IHSWCA "small schools" - 3.38 average That "small school" number would have an even bigger gap if someone from Mater Dei decided to become an IHSWCA member. This is what the "small school" average would look like if Mater Dei had a member. 7.80 average for IHSWCA to 2.52 for non-IHSWCA Now, I'm not really suggesting that if you became a member that you'd magically become better and have more state qualifiers. I'm just suggesting the people that are members are much more likely to care about their programs and wrestling in general. Who's to say that the coaches, that are too lazy to become IHSWCA members, aren't doing what needs to be done to put a strong program together? I think these numbers reveal this possibility.
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Wow, that is almost a complement...I didn't know Y2 was that influential...that's impressive. Yeah, is that like saying you're the smartest kid with down syndrome or something? I'M KIDDING!!!
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All I've got to say is that class wrestling to Indiana is Brent Metcalf to themat.com.
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I find 5 or 6 threads on the front page, talking about the same thing, offensive.
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While your point is well taken, I would suggest that any kid that would get beat intentionally as a varsity wrestler to be able to drop into the JV series would not be a varsity wrestler anyway. Or at the very least ought not be a varsity wrestler. However I am sure there would be a few rules aimed at eligibility such as only allowing a certain percentage of varsity matches during the year, and if you are on the sectional roster that would eliminate you from being able to compete in the JV series. I think a rule would be put into place that prohibits kids from having too many varsity matches come JV state time. For instances, anyone having more than 10 varsity matches, or something like that, are automatically ruled out. Also, anyone that competes in the JV series is prohibited to wrestle in the Varsity series. This would keep kids from intentionally bumping up and down, assuming that it would. It's nice to see a "non-class" thread on the front page that's got multiple pages on it.
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I agree with most of what you've written except for this part. Individual State has representation from 140+ teams, but I wouldn't exactly call them all communities per se. I'm sure there are a ton of teams that send only 1 or 2 wrestlers to Individual State. So I'd reckon only family members and friends close to the wrestlers are who'll most likely show up from that "community." In contrast, every wrestler from the teams advancing to Team Regionals and State are involved. What I'm trying to get at is the team series is more community driven I think, while Individual State is more for each particular wrestler and college recruiting. I feel that if we really want to grow the sport (in Indiana and the country), we need to do it through the team aspect. Wrestlers like the Escobedos', Tsirtsis', Howes', Harpers', Maurers' come and go. But what stays are the teams like Mater Dei, Mishawaka, Lawrence North.
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but it still happened I'm not going to say Caldwell owns Metcalf. But that tech fall, for the record, matters just about as much as Cael Sanderson's loss as a freshman (his true freshman year).
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Oscar, I sent you a pm.