blueandgold

Okay, I’ll make an edit.

AMENDED VERSION Seeds Frank Hammond '92, Perry Meridian Chico Adams '08, Perry Meridian Shawn Streck '16, Merrillville Christopher Kasten '05, Winamac Dexter Larimore '06, Merrillville Andy Schneider '94, Mount Vernon (Posey) Donte Winfield '13, Perry Meridian Wesley Bernard '14, Cathedral Eli Pokorney '18, Chesterton Evan Ellis '17, Eastern (Greentown) Greg Wagner '01, Fort Wayne Snider Chad Ruggeri '04, Mount Vernon (Posey) Adam Chalfant '09, Winchester Bubba Dickerson '96, New Castle Abraham Hall '12, Bremen Ross Janney '10, Yorktown First Round Pairings #1 Frank Hammond '92 (Perry Meridian) vs. #16 Ross Janney '10 (Yorktown) #2 Chico Adams '08 (Perry Meridian) vs. #15 Abraham Hall '12 (Bremen) #3 Shawn Streck '16 (Merrillville) vs. #14 Bubba Dickerson (New Castle) #4 Christopher Kasten '05 (Winamac) vs. #13 Adam Chalfant '09 (Winchester) #5 Dexter Larimore '06 (Merrillville) vs. #12 Chad Ruggeri (Mount Vernon - Posey) #6 Andy Schneider '94 (Mount Vernon - Posey) vs. #11 Greg Wagner '01 (Fort Wayne Snider) #7 Donte Winfield '13 (Perry Meridian) vs. #10 Evan Ellis '17 (Eastern - Greentown) #8 Wesley Bernard '14 (Cathedral) vs. #9 Eli Pokorney '18 (Chesterton) Quarterfinal Predictions #1 Frank Hammond '92 (Perry Meridian) vs. #8 Wesley Bernard (Cathedral) #2 Chico Adams '08 (Perry Meridian) vs. #7 Donte Winfield '13 (Perry Meridian) #3 Shawn Streck '16 (Merrillville) vs. #11 Greg Wagner (Fort Wayne Snider) #4 Christopher Kasten '05 (Winamac) vs. #5 Dexter Larimore '06 (Merrillville)

AMENDED VERSION Seeds Chad Red '16, New Palestine Angel Escobedo '04, Griffith Reece Humphrey '05, Lawrence North Jason Tsirtsis '10, Crown Point Jesse Mendez '20, Crown Point Andrae Hernandez '03, Griffith Zeke Seltzer '22, Cathedral Nick Lee '15, Evansville Mater Dei Alex Tsirtsis '02, Griffith Cody LeCount '13, Perry Meridian Asa Garcia '19, Avon Blake Maurer '01, Evansville Mater Dei Neal Molloy '11, Danville Jared McKinley '12, Perry Meridian Eric Galka '07, Hobart Breyden Bailey '17, Indianapolis Cathedral Deondre Wilson '14, Warren Central Prelim Pigtail for #16 Seed #17 Deondre Wilson '14 (Warren Central) vs. #16 Breyden Bailey '17 (Cathedral) First Round Pairings #1 Chad Red '16 (New Pal) vs. #17 Deondre Wilson (Warren Central) #2 Angel Escobedo '04 (Griffith) vs. #15 Eric Galka (Hobart) #3 Reece Humphrey (Lawrence North) vs. #14 Jared McKinley (Perry Meridian) #4 Jason Tsirtsis '10 (Crown Point) vs. #13 Neal Molloy '11 (Danville) #5 Jesse Mendez '20 (Crown Point) vs. #12 Blake Maurer '01 (EMD) #6 Andrae Hernandez '03 (Griffith) vs. #11 Asa Garcia (Avon) #7 Zeke Seltzer '22 (Cathedral) vs. #10 Cody LeCount (Perry Meridian) #8 Nick Lee '15 (EMD) vs. #9 Alex Tsirtsis '02 (Griffith) Quarterfinal Predictions #1 Chad Red '16 (New Pal) vs. #8 Nick Lee '15 (EMD) #2 Angel Escobedo '04 (Griffith) vs. ??? #3 Reece Humphrey '05 (Lawrence North) vs. #6 Andrae Hernandez '03 (Griffith) #4 Jason Tsirtsis '10 (Crown Point) vs. Jesse Mendez '20 (Crown Point)

As it stands with all things considered, is Stevan Mićić the best wrestler to ever come out of Indiana? His accolades include: 2020 Serbian Olympic Team Member 2022 UWW Senior Men’s Freestyle World Championships Bronze Medalist at 57 kg 2019 UWW Senior Men’s Freestyle World Championships 5th Place at 57 kg 2× UWW Senior Men’s Freestyle European Championships Bronze Medalist at 57 kg (2018, 2020) 106-22 collegiate record 3× NCAA Division I All-American at 133 lbs. (4th, 2017; 2nd, 2018; 3rd, 2019) 2018 Big Ten Champion at 133 lbs. 184-5 prep record 2014 Dave Schultz High School Excellence Award for Indiana 2× ASICS First Team All-American (2013-14) 2014 Dapper Dan Wrestling Classic Outstanding Wrestler 2013 Cadet World Team Member 3× IHSAA State Champion (106 lbs., 2012; 113 lbs., 2013; 126 lbs., 2014) 4× IHSAA All-State (3rd, 2011; 1st, 2012-14) I know others may have more collegiate success in terms of championships, but his continued success on a global level at the age of 26 surely must eclipse any of that, right?

I get it, and while I respect the hard work and commitment you put in for your boys, it just sounds to me like you had to jump through unnecessary hoops you shouldn’t have had to in the first place for your sons to have the same opportunity to practice with other big schools that I and many others already had. And yes, where there’s a will there’s a way, but you also see the benefits of this method because of the success that came with it. Also, it was feasible for you, but it may not be for others.

They go to those programs to win titles. I come from those programs. My success was a result of those programs. I joined my school’s program to win a team title and I got two rings out of it. Yes, we had that shared mentality, but I guarantee you Adams Central, Bellmont, Churubusco, and Prairie Heights all had the same mentality. We just knew our chances were better than theirs. We had a bigger pool of kids to draw from, all of whom could focus on wrestling with plenty of opportunities available in-house and outside at our immediate disposal, but I bet you can’t say the same for a lot of those 1A/2A kids which is an issue. Plenty of large school coaches are guilty of saying at tournaments, “Oh, he goes to ____. They don’t wrestle anybody.” Which is, in fact, wrong. They do wrestle somebody. We just incorrectly think of them as nothing because they aren’t in the spotlight with us and that is not right or fair to those kids from those teams who I know work hard the same way we do.

We seriously need to kill this “watered down” narrative. So, the state champions, medalists, qualifiers, and semi-state qualifiers who opted to either go Division II, III, NAIA, or NJCAA all just suck now or compete for watered down titles in college because they aren’t NCAA Division I? If wrestlers’ only option after high school were Division I, you’d lose A LOT of participation. Kids in their minds would think, “I’m not as good as Spencer Lee or Gable Steveson, so I’m no longer wrestling.” Fortunately, that is not the case. That needs to be the same scenario at the high school level as well. Give kids an opportunity to face off against kids they are actually competitive with. Too many of y’all don’t like change simply because you just don’t like change, even when the new outcome has no negative affect on you whatsoever.

But is it really watering down? The top schools are still going to be the top schools. Nine of the top ten scoring teams at the state finals last season were all 4A or 3A with a 2A coming in tenth off of the strength of two wrestlers (one of whom transferred in from a 4A school). Immediately behind that 2A team were three more 4A/3A teams with a single 1A team finishing 14th with one wrestler winning and more 4A/3A teams following behind. As it stands, the 1A and 2A teams are never going to beat out the top nine teams ever, and one wrestler winning a title and scoring 26.0 points is not indicative of a 1A team overall being competitive, it just means that wrestler alone is. It’s the same story year after year. Give 1A/2A their own class to bring more involvement and spotlight and I guarantee you we’d end up becoming more competitive as a state overall. Everyone wouldn’t want to just flock to Brownsburg, Crown Point, or Perry to win a championship, they’d stay where they are and they’d be more willing to go out of state to compete at these bigger tournaments with the confidence boost.

Mr. Garcia, you know I like you and respect you, and I do understand what you’re saying, but at the same time the current individual format works for people like you and I because we represent those big schools. It doesn’t work for the small schools. We are Central Indiana residents with an abundance of resources and opportunities at our disposal. Nothing for us would change if Indiana adopted a classed individual tournament, but it could be huge for the little schools who need it.

For any arguments that may be made against, keep this in mind.

Saw a comment in the thread discussing the final Team State votes that mentioned how the Coaches’ Association re-classed the Team State Duals to four classes because they wanted more representation from the small schools and how the large schools were over-represented. So, if it is okay from a team standpoint, why does everyone cry when it’s mentioned from an individual standpoint? Isn’t that what we want? It’s an attempt to grow the sport at a smaller level. Large school competition will always be the same; Perry and Warren will always wrestle, Crown Point and Brownsburg will always wrestle, Cathedral and EMD will always wrestle, and Penn and Portage will always wrestle. None of that changes. However, with new opportunity, the little guy from Benton Central now gets a chance to compete for a state championship more often, and NO, it does not diminish the value in being a champion in any way. Go tell an Illinois kid his 1A title means nothing to the 3A title, and see how he responds when he takes on one of our kids, because all classes in Illinois are still better than our one. Having a single class and telling kids to simply “work harder” will not make this sport grow or make our overall quality better. In fact, it will only drive them further from the sport. The only ways for this sport to grow are through added resources and opportunity. And yes, while everything in our state is equal in terms of opportunity, it is NOT equitable. Some people just need more, and that is OKAY. If three of us are standing on a milk crate looking over a fence, and only two of us can see, why is it not okay to give that one person who can’t see a little extra help so they can enjoy the view too?

Jared’s only loss that season. Crazy match.

They did not, but I didn’t want to discredit it.

Who are some guys who you always knew had potential and were touted to be very good early on, but didn’t really hit their stride until their junior or senior year?

I remember Bam and Joe’s match. A great back and forth before Joe caught him and stuck him. And yes, I agree Red and Lee is probably the number one all-time

I give the nod to #1 Cody LeCount and #2 Tommy Forte at the Bellmont Super Duals in 2014. Cody ended up getting a fall that day in a wild back and forth match that was better than their state finals match if you ask me. A close runner-up is #1 Brendan Black and #2 Kris Rumph at the Harvest Classic in 2016. That match was fiyaaaaaaaah.

2010 and 2013 Yorktown were Runners-Up to Mishawaka and Perry Meridian

That is perfectly fine with me. Just makes it better for the Perry Meridian side in the end lol

If it comes down to schools that produce the best heavyweights (and 215/220s), it’s between Merrillville and Perry Meridian, but based on the last decade, Brownsburg and Cathedral have a few too. Off the top of my head… Brownsburg Lawson Aiken Rickie Clark Leighton Jones Dorian Keys Isaac McCormick Cathedral Wes Bernard* Andy Guhl Ryan Guhl Matt Hasbrook Levi Kinney Jacob Obst Holden Parsons *= Perry Meridian wrestler Y-8th Grade Merrillville Anthony Atria Drew Bailey Dexter Larimore Michael Nickson Corderro Pollard Jake Salas Theodore Sparks Dan Spencer Gable Steveson* Brandon Streck Jason Streck Shawn Streck James Travis *= Grew up in the program Perry Meridian Chico Adams Brian Burchfield Logan Cooper Dave Feeney Frank Hammond Sam Jones Jeff McClure Steve Padgett Zac Pierson Chris Ridle Donte Winfield

Perry Meridian wins the Marion County Championship by a HAIR over a game Warren Central. The Warriors led for most of the day until the final round where the Falcons pulled ahead and kept a decent lead, but the east side grapplers slowly cut into it. Heading into 285, it was 255.0 to 254.0, but Perry’s 220 Jordan Dale won for 5th and Jack Broadwell of Beech Grove pinned Warren’s Perris Green who got upset in the semis by Perry’s Nolan Martin 11-6, which made the final score 257.0 to 254.0. Big win for the Falcons.

Fair point. You’re right.

I’ve been saying this exact thing for some time now. You’ll see a state champion in Indiana with no losses versus a state champion in Illinois with seven or eight and often the Illinois champion with seven or eight losses is better than the Indiana champion. We need those matches and those tests for us to get better overall.

Looking at 2021-22 Brownsburg, I’m wondering how many teams out there were dominant but didn’t capture the title at the end of the season. I can name a few… 2013-14 Franklin Community | 20-0, IHSWCA Team State Duals Champions, snapped Perry Meridian’s 3-year win streak 27-26, beat #2 Mater Dei in the finals, IHSAA Runners-Up to a 12-5 Cathedral who placed three in the finals 2014-15 Evansville Mater Dei | 11-0, IHSWCA Team State Duals Champions, beat Perry Meridian 31-27 in the finals, finished third at the IHSAA State Finals behind 14-7 runners-up Cathedral and 31-2 champions Penn 2014-15 Perry Meridian | 20-1, IHSWCA Team State Duals Runners-Up, lost 31-27 in the finals to Mater Dei, #1 ranked team in State Power Poll during postseason, 13 Semi-State Qualifiers, 11 in the ticket round with unfortunate meltdown that saw eventual state qualifiers (including a third placer and champion) Sunny Nier, Jack Servies, Brett Johnson, Noah Warren, and Chris Ridle all get denied at New Castle. 2015-16 Brownsburg | 17-0, IHSWCA Team State Duals Champions, beat #1 Warren Central in the finals, finished runners-up to Warren Central with six medalists including a championship from Brayton Lee and three third place finishes from Ty Mills, Blake Mulkey, and Nathan Walton from five semifinalists total. 2016-17 Perry Meridian | 17-1, IHSWCA Team State Duals Runners-Up, lost to #1 Brownsburg in the finals, later beat the same Brownsburg team two weeks later on Senior Night to become the #1 team in the final dual ranking. Team had three eventual state champions in Brayden Lowery, Brayden Littell, and Noah Warren. 2017-18 Perry Meridian | 18-2, Ranked 46th in the nation, IHSWCA Team State Duals Runners-Up, lost twice to #1 Brownsburg, finished fifth at IHSAA State Finals with three in the finals with a title from Noah Warren. Defeated eventual IHSAA State Champions Cathedral 27-25. 2017-18 Brownsburg | 15-0, Ranked top-25 in the nation, IHSWCA Team State Duals Champions, finished runners-up to Cathedral that saw a controversial head-to-head match-up between Blake Mulkey and Cathedral’s Zach Melloh ultimately decide the team race. 2020-21 Chesterton | 21-4, IHSWCA Team State Qualifier, East Chicago Semi-State Champions with seven individual titles, IHSAA State Runners-Up to Evansville Mater Dei. 2020-21 Perry Meridian | 16-2, Finished third at IHSWCA Team State Duals and IHSAA State Finals, 9 state qualifiers and six semifinalists, most points ever for a third place team, defeated Brownsburg, Center Grove, and Crown Point in an impromptu dual meet-up, and also defeated Cathedral. 2021-22 Center Grove | 17-1, IHSWCA Team State Duals 3rd, finished third at IHSAA State Finals with two state champions in Hayden Watson and Drake Buchanan.

It was 220. On two separate occasions in 2014 and 2016, we had four nationally-ranked wrestlers in the weight with the highest being #4 Kobe Woods in 2016.

Even though it looks like Carroll may not be wrestling this season, he’s still listed at #1 on Flo, and with Leighton Jones and Paul Clark joining the rankings at #16 and #17 respectively, this is the first time since 2015 Heavyweight in Indiana has three nationally-ranked wrestlers. Where does it rank among the best years, though? Hard to say, but I cannot put it above 2013 or 2014. 2013 had three nationally-ranked wrestlers National #9/State #1 Donte Winfield of Perry Meridian | Fargo Junior Men’s Freestyle Runner-Up at 285 lbs., 2012 IHSAA State Qualifier at 285 lbs., 2013 IHSAA State Champion at 285 lbs. National #13/State #2 Wesley Bernard of Cathedral | 2011 Fargo Cadet Men’s Freestyle 5th at 285 lbs., 2011 Fargo Cadet Greco-Roman 8th at 285 lbs., 2012 IHSAA State 7th at 285 lbs., 2013 IHSAA State 3rd at 285 lbs. National #17/State #3 Eric Hemmelgarn of Jay County | 2012 IHSAA State 3rd at 285 lbs., 2013 IHSAA State 5th at 285 lbs. 2014 had four nationally-ranked wrestlers National #7/State #1 Wesley Bernard of Cathedral | 2013 Fargo Junior Men’s Freestyle 4th at 285 lbs., 2014 IHSAA State Champion at 285 lbs. National #13/State #3 Shawn Streck of Merrillville | 2013 Cadet Men’s Freestyle 3rd at 285 lbs., 2013 Cadet Greco-Roman 4th at 285 lbs., 2013 IHSAA State 7th at 285 lbs., 2014 IHSAA State 3rd at 285 lbs. National #15/State #4 Norman Oglesby of Ben Davis | 2013 IHSAA State Qualifier at 285 lbs., 2014 IHSAA State Runner-Up at 285 lbs. National #17/State #2 Eric Hemmelgarn of Jay County | 2014 IHSAA State 4th at 285 lbs. 2014 also had Fargo Greco-Roman All-American and IU commit Gavan Jolley-Little 2015 had three nationally-ranked wrestlers National #9/State #1 Shawn Streck of Merrillville | 2015 IHSAA State Champion of 285 lbs. National #17/State #2 Norman Oglesby of Ben Davis | 2015 IHSAA State 3rd at 285 lbs. National #19/State #3 Nathon Trawick of Richmond | 2015 IHSAA State Runner-Up at 285 lbs. Where does 2023 (Carroll included) stack up against these classes?