Galagore
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Everything posted by Galagore
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Point taken. However, the first step to getting it changed is having as many coaches and ADs as possible agreeing that it is a good idea.
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Marginally jealous that I didn't think of this idea myself.
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Sorry, wasn't trying to throw you under the bus...actually, just the opposite.
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If small schools should get "their share" of placers, medal winners, etc., shouldn't that stay the same regardless of how many entries are allowed? The individuals in those extra entries would have no more or less advantage than the ones in the standard entries.
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I knew you could only resist for so long.
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If each school were allowed to enter two per weight, do you expect the number of state qualifiers per school size to: a) change in favor of small schools b) change in favor of large schools c) remain pretty much the same
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So...you think good wrestling school with 2800 students, same thing as good wrestling school with 400 students? Prairie Heights basically the same as Crown Point?
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Happy to know that even when he isn't saying he cares, @UncleJimmy is still keeping an eye on things:}
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Large schools have advantages, which you have stated. Those advantages in turn get passed on to the individuals in those schools. Is that really difficult to understand?
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If those expectations are unreasonable, why is it right for 1A wrestlers to compete in the same state tournament?
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Boys wrestling has also grown nationwide. Actually, when I looked those numbers up to start with (finding the same result - growing nationally, declining in Indiana) I accidentally used only boys, then went back and updated to total participation.
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That may be true...however, it does seem odd that while Indiana wrestling participation is down, national wrestling participation is up. Why is wrestling getting more popular in the country and less popular in the state?
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Exactly. You don't know the numbers. When I have made statements about numbers without actually providing the numbers, I have been hacked to pieces. I do not feel oppressed. I feel scared of losing the sport over the next 10 or so years. This is something I do not casually drop into conversation (first mention in any class wrestling thread this season) but I have coached twice under the lights. For my personal experiences, We have had more success at the state tournament then I ever could have dreamed when I started coaching so many years ago. This is not about me and my feelings of being cheated. This about the health of my favorite sport in my home state. Wrestling in Indiana will not die from the top down. It will die from the bottom up.
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If class proponents were making claims about data without actually providing the data, we would be mocked.
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It is unlikely that EMD would win all 14 weight classes in any year let alone in many years. It is almost equally unlikely that EMD would stay in the lower division. They already bump divisions in team state. We have had wrestlers qualify and some of them have even beaten wrestlers from Mater Dei.
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Here at Culver, wrestlers don't have to win a state title to get people excited about the program. Qualifying to state is a pretty big deal around here. EMD isn't going to take all of the qualifying positions.
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@base Realized I didn't fully answer your question. I feel like our program is "thriving" when we have 15+ wrestlers, provided about half of those have a reasonable expectation of "hanging a picture." At Culver, that would be a title in conference, sectional, etc. Basically, when we have enough competitive wrestlers to have the "luxury" of worrying about dual meet victories, I feel really good about our numbers.
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@base First, I want to say that I am lucky to work at a school with an AD that is extremely pro-wrestling, so we may have more leeway than others. As long as the wrestlers we do have are getting a positive experience, they seem OK with being patient the years numbers are low. When we dip below 10 wrestlers, I start looking over my shoulder on the future of the program. When we dip below 7 (half a lineup) I start actively checking in to make sure no one is asking why we have a wrestling team. If I worked with an AD that was less wrestling friendly, that conversation would probably start happening when we started getting close to single digits.
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I think you accidentally said wrestlebacks instead of class wrestling. I kid, I kid... -
Wrestling in Indiana will not die from the top down. It will die from the bottom up.
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You are correct, that is what I am focusing on. If Carmel increases to 100+, that doesn't stop our state from losing dozens of small school programs. Losing those programs is the first step toward losing the sport in our state.
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My argument used to be about fairness, but now it is about keeping the sport alive (hopefully some day growing it). Even if a big school does not have a lot of success, chances are they will retain a program. This is true not just of wrestling, but of any program. It is much more likely that a smaller school chooses to cut a program that hasn't had a lot of success, especially if said program is only impacting a half dozen students.
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Bingo. And I intentionally didn't even put them on the list due to the ridiculousness of them being put in that category.
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Interesting...
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Here are the small school references that I remember reading in this thread and their classification enrollment for this sports/school year: Jimtown: 595 Garrett: 591 Bremen: 509 Renss Central: 498 North Posey: 450 Prairie Heights: 412 Here are the four smallest schools in our conference: Pioneer: 288 Triton: 270 Culver Community: 239 Caston: 211 One of the issues that I think eludes a lot of people is exactly how small some of the small wrestling schools are. And if you look closely at the sports offerings of those four small schools, they're not as far behind the first six as one might think. Not to mention these are schools that have very active music, drama, FEA, etc. programs. Our conference even runs a math competition in April. Using a school of about 500 (approx. median of the first six) as a reference for a school of about 250 (approx. median of bottom four) is not exactly understanding the situation. This sport will start to die when schools like Pioneer, Triton, Culver, and Caston have to cut programs. It won't be "THE" end, but it will be the beginning of the end. If you keep looking at the top, you won't even see it coming until it is too late.
