Gophers

So the Winter Bulletin says team scoring shall be decided according to Rule 9, yet Rule 9 doesn't mention changing the scoring at the Regional and Semi-State level.

So as Matt so nicely summarized; is it lack of communication (re-vote / no memo) or apathy (changed it and don't follow their own rules)?

2018 - 2019 IHSAA Winter Bulletin

"VII Scoring

Individual and team scoring shall be decided according to Rule 9 in the current Wrestling Rules. Six places shall be awarded at the sectional. Team scoring in the sectional shall begin at the quarter‐finals level and not before. Only four places shall be awarded at the regional and semi‐state levels.  Scoring at the Regional, and Semi‐State level will begin at the round of eight.   Team scoring at the State meet will begin during the opening round with advancement points"

Excerpt rom:  "2018-2019 IHSAA Winter Bulletin." http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Winter Bulletin.pdf

2018 - 2019 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book

"Rule 9

“TOURNAMENT TEAM SCORING

Four Places    Six Places    Eight Places
1.    14 pts.    16 pts.           16 pts.
2.    10 pts.    12 pts.           12 pts.
3.      7 pts.      9 pts.             9 pts.
4.      4 pts.      7 pts.             7 pts.
5.                     5 pts.             5 pts.
6.                     3 pts.             3 pts.
7.                                           2 pts.
8.                                           1 pt.

ART. 3 . . . In tournaments, individual placement points shall be awarded as soon as earned. Placement points already earned shall be deducted in case of forfeit (other than injury) or disqualification from the tournament. Points for team scoring shall be awarded as follows:

a. Two team advancement points shall be scored for each match won in the championship bracket, except for the first-place match. A wrestler who receives a bye in a round where at least one match is wrestled shall be awarded two advancement points by winning the next match. No points are awarded for the bye if the wrestler loses the next match;

b. One team advancement point shall be scored for each match won in the consolation elimination, except for the final third-, fifth- and seventh-place matches. A wrestler who receives a bye in a round where at least one match is wrestled shall receive one advancement point, provided the wrestler wins the next round match;

c. Two additional points shall be scored for each match won by default, disqualification, fall or forfeit throughout the tournament;

d. One and one-half additional points shall be scored for each match won by a technical fall;

e. One additional point shall be awarded for each match won by a major decision;

f. In tournaments scoring four places, the winner of each championship semifinal shall be awarded 10 place points and the winner of each championship final shall be awarded four additional place points. The winner of each consolation semifinal shall receive four place points and the winner of third place shall receive three additional place points;

g. In tournaments scoring six places, the winner of each championship quarterfinal shall be awarded three place points, the winner of each championship semifinal shall be awarded nine additional place points and the winner of each championship final shall be awarded four additional place points. The winner of the quarterfinal consolation match shall receive three place points. The winner of the consolation semifinals shall receive four additional place points. The winner of third place and the winner of fifth place shall receive two additional place points.

h. In tournaments scoring eight places, the winner of each championship quarterfinal shall be awarded three place points; the winner of each championship semifinal shall be awarded nine additional place points; and the winner of each championship final shall be awarded four additional place points. All winners who reach the quarterfinal consolation shall be awarded one place point. The winner of the quarterfinal consolation match shall receive two additional place points. The winner of the consolation semifinals shall receive four additional place points. The winner of third place and the winner of fifth place shall receive two additional place points. The winner of seventh place shall receive an additional place point.”

- Excerpt from: NFHS. “2018-19 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book."  iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/2018-19-nfhs-wrestling-rules-book/id1441467378?mt=11

Does anyone know why the team scoring at the semi-state level was changed from last year?

2017-2018:  Round of 16 win by fall (+2), TF (+1.5), MD (+1), etc...

2018-2019:  Round of 16 win by fall (+0), TF (+0), MD (+0), etc...

Was an announcement made that I missed?

Thanks

Backtothemat - Agreed!

First of all let me say congratulations to all of the teams mentioned in this thread.

Impressive performances by all!

Just for discussion sake, I would like to throw in the 1980-1981 Delta team that scored 99 points.

1.  Current system:  14 weight classes with 16 individuals

     1980-81 season:  13 weight classes with 12 individuals

2.  Current system:  8 place winners

     1980-81 season:  4 place winners

3.  Current system:  1st - 16 pts, 2nd - 12 pts, 3rd - 9 pts, 4th - 7 pts and so on.

     1980-81 season:  1st - 14 pts, 2nd - 10 pts, 3rd - 7 pts and 4th - 4 pts, and NO points for 5-8 as they didn't place past 4th.

So not taking into consideration that one of the above mentioned teams would need to drop a wrestler (to get to 13 weight classes), we would have to add points to the Delta total just for the place winners they had:

112# - Chris Ruble (4th) +3 for 7 pts ('18) instead of 4 pts ('81)

119# - Doug Campbell (Qualifier) +0

126# - Chris Campbell (Champion) +2 for 16 pts ('18) instead of 14 pts ('81)

132# - Don Heintzelman (Champion) +2

155# - Greg Gadbury (Champion) +2

167# - David Palmer (Champion) +2

This is a total of +11 just for place finishing, bringing the 99 points up to 110.

Don't forget to subtract 4 points from Indianapolis Cathedral for the 285# 7th place.  Those points were not available in 1980-1981.  This brings Indianapolis Cathedral's total down to 104.

They are all great teams!  My discussion point is that I think as times change over the years the best way to measure dominance is how you performed against the competition at the time.  Dominance would be the margin of victory, not the most points totaled in history.  The 1980-1981 Delta team still has the largest margin of victory of 48.5 points.  No disrespect to the great Indianapolis Cathedral (108) and Brownsburg (100.5) teams of this year, but that is only 7.5 point separating them.

So in the future when the NFHS increases the number of weight classes to 15 or 16 and the IHSAA expands the field to 20 or 32 wrestlers per weight class then surely the 108 or 109.5 point record will fall.  Does that make these teams any less impressive?  Absolutely not!  They are both very impressive, it's just hard to compare scores from one year to the next when the IHSAA is continually making changes.

Just some thoughts, don't beat me up too much on your replies  

Congratulations to all of the young wrestlers who competed at this year's state finals.

With the help of their coaches, officials, fans, tournament workers, venue workers, singers (they were awesome), color-guard, parents, family and friends it was another outstanding event to witness (sorry to anyone that I forgot to list as it is truly a team effort).

That being said, which semi-state was the toughest to qualify from?

There are many ways to interpret "toughest" and I realize that others may disagree with this approach, but that disagreement is about Indiana wrestling and if we are discussing Indiana wrestling then it is a good discussion.

Points in my opinion are the best way to compare.  It takes into account place-finishers (+16 1st, +12 2nd, etc...), it takes into account dominance (+2 fall, +1.5 tech fall, +1 major decision) and it takes into account (to a lessor degree) the tougher competition by advancing through the championship bracket (+2 advancement) versus advancing through the consolation bracket (+1 advancement).

All of this being said, looking at the past two years, it appears to me that the New Castle Semi-State is strengthening its claim to being the toughest semi-state to advance to the State Finals through.

PDF attachments have team by team points scored in the State Finals.

2017-2018.pdf

2016-2017.pdf

I remember that for some of the final's matches that the wrestler's GPA was announced as part of their accolades and you could get some of the information from the IHSWCA's academic all state list, but I'm not sure how you would secure a student's academic information without their consent.

It would be an interesting statistic.

2013-2014 (1st - 8th only / Does NOT include Friday night losers)

------Average grade of -------Average winning % of

------place finisher by  -------place finisher by

------weight class        ----------weight class

106--- 9.250 ------------------87.778%

113- 10.625 ------------------91.575%

120- 10.875 ------------------88.635%

126- 11.125 ------------------90.758%

132- 11.500 ------------------89.151%

138- 11.125 ------------------85.178%

145- 11.875 ------------------88.334%

152- 11.875 ------------------89.498%

160- 11.875 ------------------93.478%

170- 11.500 ------------------87.057%

182- 11.375 ------------------88.765%

195- 11.625 ------------------91.467%

220- 11.750 ------------------92.533%

285- 11.625 ------------------92.941%

2011-2012 (1st - 8th only / does NOT include Friday night's losers)

-------Average grade of     ---------Average winning % of

-------place finisher by      ---------place finisher by

-------weight class            --------------weight class

106---   9.750                  ---------------------90.266%

113- 10.000                     ----------------------92.705%

120- 11.500                     ----------------------89.574%

126- 11.000                     ----------------------89.305%

132- 11.250                     ----------------------89.665%

138- 11.375                     ----------------------91.005%

145- 11.500                     ----------------------89.205%

152- 11.500                     ----------------------91.170%

160- 11.250                     ----------------------91.581%

170- 11.625                     ----------------------90.582%

182- 11.750                     ----------------------90.857%

195- 11.750                     ----------------------90.796%

220- 11.625                     ----------------------92.687%

285- 11.375                     ----------------------91.442%